NDT...?

I have a question that I hope someone here will be able to answer...because I am feeling rather confused at the moment.

I started on Armor in December 2011. My doctor ( a so called Hertoghe doctor) takes AT herself, and thinks it's a good drug. Although I had heard a lot of bad things about it since its reformulation, I trusted her enough to try it...and I did great on it...for the first six months. I lost several kilograms of water weight, I had more energy, without going from one extreme to another. Following my doctor's instructions, I chewed the pills up.

Back then, I combined 15, 30, 60, 90, and 120 mg pills to 5 grains daily, and I felt great...then, in July 2012, my doctor prescribed 240 and 300 mg pills to keep costs down. I was happy to refill my prescription, only to notice that, this time, I quickly went downhill...most, if not all, of my hypo symptoms came back My FT4 and FT3 looked exactly like they did on 200 mcg of thyroxine only, with my FT3 levels at the very bottom of range 24 hours after taking Armour.

I switched to Erfa, and did OK, but I never felt as stable as I did on Armour during those first six months. Back then, I was really stable, had energy throughout the day, but never had any ups and downs.

Someone suggested to me I was on "old" Armour back in 2012, but that is not possible...I used to chew the pills up, following my doctor's instructions, and the pills were not sweet at all. They were dry, and melted easily when chewed. When I switched to the 240 and 300 mg pills, it was like chewing on wet paper...not a very pleasant feeling

The pharmacy I used to order Armour from started offering capsules a couple of years ago; they take 5 grain pills, crush them, and mix into various strength capsules, after the price of Armour literally doubled (as least in Belgium...). I tried that, and it did not work very well for me.

I have read a lot about Armour lately, and some claim it deteriorated after Actavis bought Armour back in 2014(?).

I just don't know...the STTM has been criticising Armour for years, and praising Erfa. Now, they say something is wrong with Erfa as well... I have read about patients on other US brands, and there are good and bad reports...but, for every patient doing great on one given brand, you can always find a review by someone having problems on that same product...

I wanted to ask those of you having tried various options: what is the best option if neither Armour nor Erfa works 100%? NP, WP Thyroid, Naturethorid? Thai NDT (Thyroid-S, Thiroyd, TR Man)? Or could supplements work, such as Thyro Gold? I have always believed that porcine thyroid was closer to human thyroid than bovine thyroid, but I would have no problems switching to a bovine product...and I have seen many great reviews on Thyro Gold.

[Clutter]

Anna69, you said yourself that for one great review of a brand there will be a counter claim saying the brand didn't work at all well. They work differently for different people. If a brand suits me it's no guarantee it will work for you, and conversely, a brand which makes me ill may be perfect for you. You need to try the various brands for yourself to see which works best for YOU.

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

Thank you, Clutter. However, before the 2009 Armour reformulation, there did not seem to be any unhappy patients...? Or maybe I just was not paying attention back then...?!

[Clutter in reply to Hidden]

Anna69, Why would you pay attention unless you were affected by the reformulation? Still, there's no point in hankering after the 2009 formulation, its long gone.

[Hidden]

I was on the old armour, didnt feel great but lost weight, important when you are 25 stone. Stopped taking it because of expense and went onto thyrogold, felt great for a while but didnt lose any weight so tried thyroid s ,felt terrible on thyroid s, so now on nature thyroid, feeling good and losing weight. Also the nature thyroid I dissolve under my tongue like I used to armour, I think that helps. It tastes like pork. I think it is all a bit of trial and error. I know some people do really well of thyroid s but I think it would have killed me if Id carried on taking it.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, Mandyjane! I don't like the idea of all the fillers in Thyroid-S anyway...especially the aluminium

Since you have tried both Armour and Naturethroid, would you say there is less cellulose in Naturethroid than in reformulated Armour...I am wondering as Naturethroid was also reformulated, not long after Armour was, but it does seem to work better than Armour...?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Oh I have had the reformulated armour it was after 2009 but I thought I read that it had change hands and was now different again since this year, I might be confused

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

No, you are right, there have been several reports about Armour changing again (for the worse) after Actavis bought the company, but Actavis denies it...

It's such a shame that what used to be a great product now seems to be ruined...

[Hidden]

I have tried the armour since it was reformulated. I dont think nature thyroid contains any cellulose just calcium . It dissolves easily which I dont think it would if it had cellulose and I didnt read cellulose in its list of ingredients. I was suprised it contained calcium as I thought calcium was supposed to inhibit the absorbtion of thyroid hormones but it is having a good effect on me. Like rocket fuel.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hidden]

RLC, manufacturers of both Nature-Throid and WP Thyroid, have the following information about the ingredients of Nature-Throid.

Nature-Throid was formulated with the following ingredients:

Active Ingredient:

Thyroid USP (desiccated porcine thyroid)

*Lactose Monohydrate (Lactose is not added to our formula but it is already present in Thyroid USP raw material as a diluent per USP (United States Pharmacopeia). Lactose is not contraindicated for individuals with allergies to dairy, as lactose is a milk sugar (vs. dairy allergies, which are caused by proteins in milk). It is, however, contraindicated for individuals with lactose intolerance. We have had many physicians reporting no side effects while using Nature-Throid with lactose intolerant patients. The amount is very small – less than 5 mg. per 1 Grain vs. 12,000 – 15,000 mg. in a typical 8 fl. oz. glass of milk.)

Inactive Ingredients:

Colloidal Silicon Dioxide

Dicalcium Phosphate

Magnesium Stearate

Microcrystalline Cellulose

Croscarmellose Sodium

Stearic Acid

Opadry II 85F19316 Clear – tablet coating

getrealthyroid.com/why-get-...

It most certainly does contain cellulose. You might also consider croscarmellose sodium to be a form of cellulose. ("Croscarmellose sodium is an internally cross-linked sodium carboxymethylcellulose for use as a superdisintegrant in pharmaceutical formulations." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosc... )

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Well, Armour did contain some cellulose as well pre-2009 but, apparently, not enough to cause problems...I have not tried Naturethroid (would love to, though), but Armour post-2009 has been like chewing on dry paper...I tried to chew the pills up as recommended on STTM, but that did not seem to make much of a difference...

Those of you on Naturethroid; is it available in UK pharmacies, or do you order it online?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hidden]

As with ALL products with a declared T4 and/or T3 content, they are Prescription-only Medicines (POM) within the UK. Pharmacies can get it, if they wish to be helpful but it is cost-prohibitive to do so on a private prescription, and very, very few get it on NHS prescription. Hence, on-line is the realistic route for most.

[Hidden]

I dont think it lists all its ingredients on the bottle then. I will have a look later

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hidden]

Identical ingredient list in the leaflet can be found on the lids of pots of Nature-Throid - except the on-line version has a longer statement about the lactose content.

[decembersignup]

The two alternatives - naturals - I tried. Thiroyd. Which is cheap. It gave me no physical side effects, which was a blessed relief after the others. BUT brought on anxiety, sadness, fear, depression etc. which was virtually unbearable. The other was a lesser known brand from Ireland, very expensive, which did the same thing I am now trying thiroyd together with iodine because the iodine lifts my mood.

[eeng]

Thyro Gold is a lot weaker than Porcine NDT, so you would end up having to consume it by the bottlefull!

I believe it works very well for people who just need a little bit of support for their thyroid and their doctor won't prescribe anything, so as you say, its like taking a food or vitamin supplement.

[Hidden]

Wow...sorry for my honesty, but when I read what you guys have written, I feel kind of discouraged...like nothing can ever be done in order for people with thyroid disease to feel optimal...it's not your fault, and I really appreciate your honesty, but I cannot help but feel kind of discouraged...

I remember before Armour was reformulated (back then, I was on thyroxine only), and everyone was singing its praises, saying how it eliminated virtually every known symptom of hypothyroidism...is it really possible that no single drug (NDT or otherwise) comes close to "old" Armour as far as effectiveness and symptom clearance are concerned?!?!?!

[Hidden]

PS. What about Thai Thyroid? I have been considering switching to it, given all the problems with US/Canadian products, including the cost, but it's quite confusing...there seems to be three Thai products available: TR Man, Thiroyd, and Thyroid-S. Has anyone tried any of these, and could recommend one in particular, or is anyone able to compare some or all of them...?

[Clutter in reply to Hidden]

Anna69, many members are happy with either Thyroid-S or Thiroyd. I've not seen anyone post that they use TR Man which is relatively new to the market.

I thought your Thai NDT was confiscated by Belgian customs?

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

Yes, but I found a UK supplier of Thyroid-S (intra-community delivery, at least until 2017...at which point you may choose to exit the EU), which is why I am interested in finding out more about it...I have tried Thiroyd in the past, with good results but, when I had a shipment confiscated by customs, I decided I could not live like that...not knowing from one day to the next if I would get the drugs I need or not...:.-( if Thyroid-S turned out to be "the drug", I would be extremely happy, as long as I can get it from the UK...especially given the price of NDT in Belgium which has sky rocketed recently...around 1000£ per year if you take 4.5-5 grains daily. I would gladly pay that if it worked, but it no longer seems to...or, rather, it seems unstable. You never know from one batch to the next if it is going to work, make you hyper, or hypo (I am now talking about Erfa, as I have not tried Armour since 2011).

I hope this clarifies things.

Anna

[Clutter in reply to Hidden]

Anna69, Thyroid-S is widely used by forum members. Thousands of posts about it if you enter Thyroid-S into the HU Search Function.

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

Thanks, Clutter, that is really good to know! I have been doing extensive research on it and, although it contains aluminium, which I personally am not crazy about, it still seems very good...so far, I have not found anyone unhappy with it. Like someone put it: Why would people in other parts of the world settle for less than pure and effective drugs? I agree and, if Thai NDT turns out to work for me, I would be willing to consider staying on it for good...given all the recent problems with US and Canadian NDT

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hidden]

A side-note. So far as I can see, Erfa is not Canadian - at least in terms of where it is manufactured.

For a start, Erfa's Establishment Licence doesn't cover manufacturing activities but does include importation and distribution.

eci2012.net/wp-content/uplo...

Further, when the "problems" with Erfa surfaced, the explanation was partly relocation of manufacture to Spain.

(I don't know where Armour Thyroid is manufactured now, but it used to be Puerto Rico - a United States territory rather than "proper" USA!)

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Yes, you are right. According to STTM, the pills used to be manufactured in Belgium; then, when production was relocated to "new, modern facilities" in Spain, the complaints started...so, since Erfa denies any reformulation, the problems must somehow be related to the manufacturing process.

But, the bottles have labels in both French and English, and it says the company is Canadian...but their NDT is manufactured in Europe.

For some reason, I seem to do better on the 30 and 60 mg pills than the 125 mg pills...I have no idea why, and it's a shame, as Erfa is horribly expensive in Belgium, and it would be great to be able to take 125 pills instead of smaller ones...but there is definitely a difference in efficacy between the 30 and 60 mg pills on the one hand, and the 125 mg pills on the other...