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Flu Vaccin, Anyone?
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greygoose
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Greygoose, sorry for changing the subject, but I've seen your posts about T3 and carbs, and I think you're right. I have secondary hypo, and a conversion problem, and am now trying different dosis of T4+T3. (Levo alone doesn't work for me - trying for 6 years!!). I have noticed that even on 20mcg T3 (and 100mcg T4), which is definitely too much for me, my weight almost doesn't go down, although I try really hard with low carb. And that when I relax and a little MORE carbs (eg. On the weekend) it does!! I also have the impression it even works better when I take less T3 - now I am trying with 10mcg, and it seems to be better. I have heard too much T3 converts to rT3 and fT3 falls. Do you know anything about it? Or do you know a link on this theme?
Thank you!
M.
T3 cannot convert to rT3. It is physically impossible. T4 is converted to T3 and rT3.
One molecule of T4 has 4 atoms of iodine. In order to make one molecule of T3, one atom of iodine has to be removed. But it has to be the right atom so that it can fit into the T3 receptor. If the wrong atom is removed, it produces rT3. There are many legitimate reasons for making rT3, such as when you are ill, and your body needs to conserve energy. It's when you have too much rT3 that problems arise, because it blocks the T3 receptors.
But rT3 is always made from T4. 
Taking too much T3 will cause available T4 to convert to rT3, because the body senses there's already enough T3. This is a different concept from the fact that rT3 can technically only be produced from T4. This graphic explains it better: tiredthyroid.com/blog/2015/...
Ah, yes, I hadn't thought about that.
Miriam, it would be really handy if we could see your labs. Have you had your FT3 tested?
Thank you for your answers. Yes, I have. It was always low, and since I've started taking T3 it is low-normal (T4 now normal-normal). But I think this might be due to the fact that blood tests are usually made 24h after the last dosis (as the text above says), because even while taking 20mcg T3 the results are low-normal or normal-normal at the most, although I feel it is definitely too much (heartbeat over 100, cannot concentrate at all, nervousness - symptoms that disappear when I take less) . In fact, I am considering having my ft3 tested 2-4 hours after I take it, to see where it peaks. Maybe when I take 20mcg fT3 rises too much and T4 is converted to rT3. What do you think?
I think the peak will shock you. Maybe test 6-8 hours after? Or both? Then you can see the whole progression of the peak, mid-way, and 24 hours after. Everything I've read says T3 disappears after 24 hours.
Maybe. Or maybe just 1-2 hours after, when it is already midway and rising.
Well, do you think you could share the numbers with us, please? Would give us more of an idea where you are. 'Normal-normal' is meaningless. We are always advised to have blood tests done 24 hours after our last dose, otherwise, you only see what you've just taken, not what is usually there.
But if your FT3 is low normal, I Don't see that you can be taking too much T3. And I Don't think a brief peak in T3 will cause T4 to convert to rT3, it's when it is constantly over-range. So, I Don't see what you have to gain by testing it 2-4 hours after dosing.
If you are having problems increasing T3, try reduce your T4, rather than the T3, and get your nutrients tested. Vit D, vit B12, folate, iron and ferritin all have to be optimal before you can absorb and use the hormone you're taking.
Yes, of course. This is my last test, a month ago, when I was taking 15mcg T3 100 mgc T4:
T3 0.88 (0.73-1.62)
fT4 0.81 (0.49-1.14)
T4 6.2 (5.7-10.4)
TSH 0.03 (0.55-5.46)
fT3 2.62 (2.50-3.90)
fT3 is here lower than I remembered. But I can't take more T3. Or maybe I could with less T4, as you suggested.
(Don´t mind the TSH, it has no meaning in my case - I have secondary hypo, pituitary, so it never works)
TSH is meaningless most of the time.
Your FT3 is so low there that it can't possibly be doing anything. Not surprised you can't lose weight. I doubt it that much T3 causes rT3 production.
And with a Total T3 that low, I doubt you have much in the way of rT3. You Don't have much of any sort of T3!
FT4 is low because you're taking T3. That's normal.
So, if you can't tolerate an increase in T3, I think it's time to do a 24 hr saliva cortisol test, and/or get your nutrients tested.
Thank you. I'll have it tested again in about 2 weeks anyway. But I'll ask about nutrients and cortisol. Thank you very much!
You're welcome. Hope you find your solution.
Just a last question:
Do you think fT3 could be low because I am always on a diet (low carb, but not too low)? Or in that case fT3 might be low, but T3 not that low?
Thanks!
No, I think your FT3 is probably low because you're not getting enough calories. But perhaps more of your calories should come from carbs, I Don't know.
Dieting when you are hypo is not a good idea because it makes you more hypo - as you can see. (And it's not going to make you lose weight. On the contrary.)
Conversion, like every other process in the body, needs calories. If calories are in short supply, the body has to decide on its priorities - and conversion isn't one of them.
So, what is the different between FT3 and TT3? FT3 is the measure of the amount of T3 in your blood that is available for use by the body.
TT3 measures all forms of T3 : bound T3, rT3 and FT3. So, if you have a lot of bound and/or rT3, your TT3 could be high in the range. But your FT3 could still be very low.
Your body can only use FT3, not rT3, nor bound T3. So, it doesn't matter how high the TT3 is, if the FT3 is low, you will be hypo.
Which is why we need to test the FT3 and not the TT3.
Ok, so TT3 includes rT3 and not only fT3. I thought it didn't as it comes from T4. I knew fT3 is the relevant number, but they usually check everything together (and sometimes no fT3).
Thank you very much. I am really tired of all this. It is nice to have some help!
Thank you, great text. I have saved it. I think this must be the problem. Might also explain why some people PUT ON weight when they are overmedicated: too much rT3.
I think people put on weight not because of rT3, but because they're taking too much T3. That causes insulin resistance. There's a post about that too! tiredthyroid.com/blog/2012/...
I've never heard that rT3 made people put on weight. Weight-gain is more likely to be low T3.
I have lost more weight since starting T3.
Scarecrow is not a good look on me ! 😱.
Pp
Some people say they put on weight when they are overmedicated. This isn't my case, but taking T3 doesn't make me lose weight either (it has a little effect, definitely more than when taking T4 only, but not what I expected. I don't have so much to lose, but since my hypo started 2009 I have put on about 8-10kg). I thought this might be due to rT3, because I can't rise liiothyronin any further: I feel overmedicated, but this has almost no effect on my weight. I haven't considered insulin resistance, though.
It's not just a case of taking the T3, it's a case of taking the right dose. And if, as you say, your FT3 is low-normal, then you aren't taking enough. If you are having trouble raising it, I doubt it's due to rT3, but it could be due to low cortisol, or it could just be due to nutritional deficiencies.
Crikey grey I wish I had seen that before Monday.
I was determined not to have the flu shot when I went to get my B12 on Monday.
I was co-erced by, you have asthma Etc argument. Caught me on a bad day.
Cheers weakneed P p
These doctors have a lot to answer for! I should think asthma is a good reason not to have the jab. Do you feel ok?Grey ,feel a bit "ropy" today or It could be I just genuinely feel c**p.
Hope you are well.
Pp
Don't feel too good myself, today, but that's lack of sleep due to foot pain. Roll on bed time!
You may just be having an off-day, and nothing to do with the flu jab. But if you start having flu symptoms, you should go back to your doctor and tear him off a strip!
Probably right gg. I didn't sleep last night , had scary palpitations all night.
Do you have that Plantar whatsit ?
Hope you sleep tonight.
Pp
No, it's not plantar whatsit, it's difficult to describe. It's not something I've ever heard anybody else talking about.
It's like a sudden attack of something half-way between an itch and a pain. It starts in one part of my foot, and shoots out like lightening into other parts. I feel I want to scratch it, but scratching only makes it worse. It's not the skin, it's deep-seated in my foot.
It will go on for about half an hour, then stop and I fall asleep. And then it attacks another part of the foot - can be toes, heel, instep, anywhere - and sometimes in my hand, too.
I have no idea what it is, nor what to do about it. I try changing the temperature, or putting pressure on the area affected, or walking around, nothing helps. So, in a last-ditch attempt to relieve it, I get up and switch on the computer, do some work, or something to take my mind off it. Or just while I'm waiting it out.
It's not every night it happens, but last night was particularly bad. Sometimes, it reduces me to tears, it's so painful.
So, make something of that if you can! lol
Trust you greygoose to be different lol
Sounds really weird.
Does alcohol help? Lol
Pp
Drinking it or rubbing it on my feet?
Haha
Whatever floats your boat greygoose!
Pp
Damn! I thought you were making a serious suggestion there!
I am very serious where alcohol is concerned gg
Perhaps you won't notice the feet so much if you have a couple of stiff ones 😀.
Pp
Hmmm... Not much of a drinker, myself. I'm a social drinker. But I can't say I've noticed any difference on the occassions I have indulged.
healthimpactnews.com/2015/f...
....and here's another
Oh no!!! I had this last month 😢
always late catchi g up with posts, or I reading them in wrong order! Must be cos I'm LH and brain thinks wrong way round! Ive now thought 2/3/4/5 times even after my earlier post - I'm not having having the Flu Jab is my decision. I think also I'd be more wise not to go to tonight's event - learnt yesterday we will have 124 there for the sit down meal and dancing - however given I've bought and paid for 2 tickets, and I'm on the Comite, I'll just have to be v carefull. If there are loads of people there wil colds, I'll get out nd away as soon as safe and not impolite to do so! But life is for living
Even if you have the flu jab, it won't protect you from the common cold. It just 'protects' - and even that isn't proved - from one particular strain of the flu virus. And if it's a different flu virus that is going round, you have no protection at all from anything, BUT the possibility that the jab will induce that strain of flu to take hold in you and your weak immune system will not be able to fight it. Because, let's face it, most of us hypos have weak immune systems.
If you want to go to the party - and why shouldn't you! - take a large dose of vit C and make sure not to put your hands anywhere near your eyes, nose or mouth until you've got home and washed them - no eating with your hands.
The most awful thing about these French dos is having to shake hands with or kiss everybody. There have been times when a man has been to the toilet, and I know full well he hasn't washed his hands! And then he sticks his hand out for me to shake! And I think about what has been in that hand minutes before... Ugh! But, one ruse is to pretend that you have a sick of some sort, and have to keep your distance. And because they Don't want to catch your germs, they keep well away from you! lol Works like a charm!
thank GG, yes it's 4 kisses here cheek to cheek x 130 doesn't bear thinking about, not that I'll know all of them by any means! I'll make sure I'm clutching my tissue to my nose, as I meet and greet whoever!
and I'll keep away from the snacks on tables as they have their aperos!
As to the men, I wouldn't ever dream of taking a snack out of a bowl shared with them! I heard that one years ago also.
Thanks for your advice above, always worth a timely reminder to all of us. :-))
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