Side effects??

[farie02]

Hi ive been on ndt for coming up a year..does ndt have any side effects?? Ive not been well n not sure what its due to as it doesnt seem to be getting any better

[shaws Administrator]

If you've been on the same NDT all along, maybe a switch to another will help. I tried about 4 NDTs before I found one that suited me.

Sometimes, fillers/binders in the product might prevent you from feeling much better. Another reason is that you might not be on a sufficient dose.

Do you have a print-out of your latest blood test results, with the ranges. If so, post them for comments. We are entitled to copies from the surgery (some may charge a nominal sum for paper/ink) but make sure ranges are stated.

If you've not had a blood test for a while, request another as you have symptoms. Leave approx 24 hours between your last dose of NDT and the blood test. Take meds afterwards, leaving two hours each side if you've eaten. Also have the blood test as early as possible.

If you've not had a recent blood test for B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate ask for these at the same time as deficiencies can cause symptoms too.

[farie02 in reply to shaws]

Ive been on the same ndt an feel like im gettin worse not better..not sure if its causen side effects off the t4 synthroid tab im gettin flushes n face mental cant work feel my box is closer than i want i feel like im 90 n im only 34

[shaws Administrator in reply to farie02]

When you say 'ndt' do you mean synthroid (which is a synthetic hormone) in the UK we call it levothyroxine or Natural Dessicated Thyroid hormones (NDT) like Armour, Nature-Throid, Thyroid-S etc.

[farie02 in reply to shaws]

Sorry..im on synthyroid an ndt whole thyroid.. so do ndts have side effects??wher do i look for list

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

NDTs Don't have side-effects unless you take too much. But as you Don't say how much you're taking, or what your blood results are, it's really impossible to help you.

It's more likely to be the synthetic Synthroid that is giving you side-effects. A lot of people can't tolerate synthetic T4. But then again, a lot of people can't tolerate NDT - especially if you have Hashi's. Do you have Hashi's? In which case you might be better off on T4+T3 or T3 only.

But, you see, one needs all the détails before we can say anything.

[farie02 in reply to greygoose]

ndt do have side effect just found few..but im on 65mg whole thyroid n 100mg synthyroid.ive been on this dose three weeks hav had a test 2weeks in an tsh n t4 had changed but t4 yet to increase..i cant find my post with levels

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

OK, so what are the side-effects?

You've only been on a tiny dose of NDT for a very short while, you can hardly expect to be feeling the effects. There is absolutely no point in having a blood test 2 weeks after starting a dose. It takes 6 weeks for it to have the full effect.

I think the problem is that you are undermedicated, not that NDT has side-effects.

[farie02 in reply to greygoose]

I been on same ndt dose for year specialist add extra 50mg of synthroid now been 1oomg n ndt staying at 65mg

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

So tsh 1.09 (0.4-3.8)

T4 16.8 (12.8 -20.4)

T3 3.5 (4.0-6.8)

Click on the Arrow next to your name in the green band at the top, click on Profil, and there are all your posts. It was the second one.

OK, so you're right, you're not converting, and your FT3 is Under range - quite a bit Under-range. So, why did you increase the Synthroid and not the NDT? That would have been better. No point increasing the T4 if you can't convert it.

So, the next question is : have you had your vit D, vit B12, ferritin, iron, folate and zinc tested?

[farie02 in reply to greygoose]

No not al of those.. vit d awaiting fertin test comen but have to find someone to check others im not sure what it cost to do urself

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

I really Don't know how those things work in the US. You could start a new question with that, and ask one of your fellow countrymen how much testing costs. I live in France.

So, what was the result of the vit D?

[faith63 in reply to greygoose]

Grey..remember, you got worse on ndt too?

[greygoose in reply to faith63]

Yes, I did, but that wasn't because NDT has side-effects, it's because I can't convert and can't tolerate T4.

Loads of people do very well on NDT. Hormones Don't have side-effects as such, you just feel bad if you take too much or too little. Or the T4 in it if you can't tolerate T4. But those aren't side-effects.

However, you might get side-effects from the fillers. Which is why you should try more than one. I tried them all except thyroid S. I was bad on all of them. But getting better and better on T3 only. Ibso facto, I can't tolerate T4.

Now that might be the case with farie, but she doesn't know that yet. But if she can't tolerate T4, then increasing the Synthroid is only going to make things worse.

[faith63 in reply to greygoose]

Here is a link to Dr. Mark Starrs explanation about ndt and hashi's and why he bnever uses it on Hashi's patients.

21centurymed.com/other-work...

Wow!! I never for 1 moment thought it was the t4 in ndt, that made me so ill on ndt!!! I didn't have the same hyper symptoms, on Levo.

In contrast, Dr. Alexander Haskell (author of “Hope for Hashimoto’s”) and Dr. Mark Starr (author of “Hypothyroidism Type II”), report that for some patients, natural thyroid formulations from animal thyroids, such as Armour®, may be perpetuating the autoimmune attack due to containing thyroglobulin and TPO, and they only recommend compounded and synthetic thyroid medications for people with Hashimoto’s (6,7). I have heard the same from multiple pharmacists and patients alike.

If someone starts feeling worse after initially feeling better on desiccated thyroid or has an increase in TPO Antibodies after starting desiccated thyroid, switching to a compounded T4/T3 medication is advisable.

[shaws Administrator in reply to farie02]

farie02

I believe Ndts don't have side effects but some people might have to fillers/binders (things that hold the tablet together). Synthroid is a synthetic product and some people cannot absorb a synthetic product as well as a 'natural' product. Many do feel much better on synthroid but many don't.

I wouldn't mix both together, ndt or synthroid. I would take one or the other. I have looked at a link for whole natural thyroid and what it states is true but I don't know about the product itself.

There is a product in the USA called Thyro-gold and it was made by a doctor who died a couple of years ago and who was also an Adviser to Thyroiduk and who didn't like synthroid for his patients and invented the above product. There is also Armour, Nature-throid etc. but these last two need a prescription and Thyro-gold doesn't.

The symptoms you describe, i.e. flushes etc can be symptoms of hypo as well as feeling awful.

Can you give a little background. When were you diagnosed, What dose do you take of synthroid and ndt?

Have you had a recent blood test and can post your results, with the ranges?

This is a link to Thyro-gold and Dr Lowe's wife, Tammy, now deals with this. She is in the USA:-

naturalthyroidsolutions.com...

Whatever thyroid hormone we take, we have to have sufficient to make us feel well. Sometimes it takes a little while for us to get to a proper dose.

[farie02 in reply to shaws]

What time frame does it take for swappin n tryin other t4 n t3 meds

[Jackie]

Hi May be you need more? What are your tSH, T4 and especially FT3?

Jackie

[farie02 in reply to Jackie]

1.09tsh o.4to3.8

t4 16.8 12.8 20.4

t3. 3.5 4.0to6.8

this is two weeks into med change im yet to get to 6weeks which im struggling with very badly mentally i dont know how soon to make another change..im soo not coping or relating to life..especially n morning..

[Jackie in reply to farie02]

HI It is the low FT3. I take NDT and T3 for this reason.

I hope that helps.

Jackie

[farie02 in reply to Jackie]

How does that work? Dont you need t4??my body isnt converting t4 to t3 is what specialist said..hence ndt

[Jackie in reply to farie02]

Hi NDT contains T3 and T4, you continue taking NDT for that and add a little T3 to it, so take both.

Jackie

[shaws Administrator in reply to farie02]

fairie

Don't worry too much about the mental affect as it is very common when we don't have sufficient hypothyroid hormones. As stated above it is usual to test after six weeks on the hormones.

Your T3 is lower than the range which shows that it has to be increased. You are not on a good dose to make you feel better.

It is usual to be on a dose for six weeks, with a blood test, then your dose is increased by 25mcg each six weeks till you feel better. Taking too much hormones at first can make you feel bad too, so it's better to go up gradually.

Synthroid is T4 (levothyroxine) only. It then converts to T3 which is the Active hormone. T3 is needed in every one of our receptor T3 cells which will then make us feel well. Our brain contains the most T3 cells and yours is low at present.

Unfortunately, we cannot rush the dose increases as it can make us feel much worse with maybe palpitations etc. So going up slowly every six weeks is the best way. If you also make a record of your temperature and pulse several times a day. Our temperature is usually low with hypo as is our pulse.

[farie02 in reply to shaws]

What is low temp n pulse

[farie02 in reply to shaws]

Lol how can i not worry bout thw mental side effects as the very bad n im trying to b a mum with suisidal issues due to how im feeling

[shaws Administrator in reply to farie02]

Hi fairie02, of course it's easy for me to say don't worry when someone is in the throes of their upset hormones but until you get on the correct amount these feelings take longer to resolve and they do resolve but maybe not so quickly as we'd like.

When we're more or less newly diagnosed and have never had any clinical symptoms like this in our life before we just don't know why or what is happening to us and it frightens us. Once we know that it can be quite common it can help us settle down a little.

Many of this forum can identify with you as they've also been in the same position.

If you have any blood test results, post them on a new question as it will allow more members who've just come online to see it and respond. Remember the ranges too.

[Lilian15]

I am wondering whether you might be a case for Paul Robinson's T3 only protocol. I do not know much about it just read about it somewhere. I do not know the name of his book but I believe he has a facebook page. It could be the T4 in the NDT is causing RT3.

[farie02 in reply to Lilian15]

How do i get rt3 tested no1 in nz nos this

[Lilian15 in reply to farie02]

I do not think it is tested as a matter of course and unless a private lab does it, I do not know where. Others might. I was just suggesting that might be a reason for lower T3, which I think is one of the reasons for stopping any T4 and take only T3. But I really know very little about this, as to whether it is temporary, how it is done etc. You will have to talk to someone more knowlegeable. I was just giving suggestions as to why your T3 could be low despite taking NDT and why just increasing NDT might still not be the answer. See if you can get hold of Paul Robinson's book or chat to him on his facebook group to see if he thinks this could be the answer for you. I trust the admins here will not mind me suggesting this.

[faith63]

I got hyper symptoms, hot, sweaty, acne and more swollen on ndt..like i was being poisoned. My blood pressure went too high too, felt feverish..it flared up my hashi's badly.

[farie02 in reply to faith63]

I feel same way as if its giving me hyper ive lost so much weight an ive increased my diet due to body not absorbing or breaking down food...

[faith63 in reply to farie02]

Your labs are still low, tho. ndt still has mostly t4 you are not converting well. This is usually where people add t3 meds to their ndt. ..if you fell overstimulated , if it were me, i would go to t3 only. Do you have Hashi's?

[farie02 in reply to faith63]

Not that i no of..im on synthroid and ndt

[faith63 in reply to farie02]

If you don't convert well, all that t4 is not doing you any good. Your symptoms could be from low t3 mostly. Then again, not. It is all trial and error. For some they take their levo and feel good..not me!!! I have been trying to find a med since 2011. I have come to the conclusion, that my symptoms are due to my bad immune system and pituitary issues. I am on t3 only, after having tried everything else.

[farie02 in reply to faith63]

Id been fine till i come off antidepressant then things changed..im getting hyper symptoms but im low??

[faith63 in reply to farie02]

If you have Hashios' you can have hyper symptoms, some people who are low get hyper symptoms, some people on too much t4, who don't convert have hyper symptoms. I get hyper symptoms on ndt and t4 meds too, from it pooling in my blood and not converting and hyper from hashi's..it has been horrible. No doctor understands.

[faith63 in reply to farie02]

it is good to know if you have Hashimotos..it causes, for some hyper symptoms and problems with ndt..

[farie02 in reply to faith63]

My specialist has me on synthroid and ndt..on my last raise i increased my synthyroid another 50 so 100 syn and 1grain ndt..nut i hav graves could it b possible the ndt is flaring that up corsen hyper symptoms as ive increased wat i eat vut yet not putting weighr on for been hypo...

[faith63 in reply to farie02]

You have Graves?

I am having problems understanding your reply.

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

Farie, do you have a thyroid? Have you had a total thyroidectomy? You really must give us all the information you have for us to be able to help you.

So, if you have Graves, you've had antibody testing, right? Which antibodies did they test?

I'm afraid your specialist isn't very special at all! He doesn't really seem to know what he's doing to put someone on NDT and Synthroid!

And talking of Synthroid, I thought that meant you were in the US, but above you said you're in NZ. It really does make a difference to know things like that. You're making it awfully hard for us to help you. I know how difficult it is when you can't think straight and feel depressed, I think most of us have been there. But please help us help you.

[farie02 in reply to greygoose]

I have had total removal of thyroid..im not sure what antibodys were tested im new to it all..ndt was introduced cos im not convertin t4 to t3..ive been woundering weather my ndt is setting off my graves.. please tel me y synthroid n ndt not good??

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

Too much T4. And if you can't convert it properly, it can make you worse rather than better.

Do they not give you your blood test results in NZ? It's really important to have them. It makes a difference to the way you're treated. So, if you can get hold of them, post them here, with the ranges.

I've no idea how things work in NZ, although we do have some other NZers on here. But in the UK, it is a legal right to have copies of blood tests. And here in France, the lab gives them straight to us. See what you can do.

[farie02 in reply to greygoose]

Ive got them the last 2 times since im feeling so bad..try keep tabs..i also need to no what other test are important to keep tabs on..

[greygoose in reply to farie02]

I've just replied to your new thread with all that information.