TSH test

[tracy28]

Hi, I suffer with b12 deficiency and have recently had a TSH test, the result was 4.1, does this seem high??? The doctor is saying no and they wo t do any other tests to rule out thyroid problems, they are just saying im depressed and want me on tablets and to see a councillor

[shaws Administrator]

A TSH of 4.1 in the UK will not be classed as being hypothyroid. Did the doctor do a T4 test as well as the TSH? If you can get a print-out from the surgery with the ranges it makes it easier to comment. Some doctors might take into consideration your symptoms (link below).

Some links for you.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/diagno...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

We have to read and learn in order to try to get a diagnosis. Ask your GP to test your Vitamin B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate as a deficiency in these can also give you symptoms.

Always get a print-out with the ranges and post them for comments.

[Clutter]

Welcome to the forum, Tracy28.

TSH 4.1 does indicate your thyroid is failing but you are unlikely to get a diagnosis and treatment until your TSH is over range, usually between 4.5 and 6. If your symptoms persist ask for another thyroid test in 3 months and ask your GP to order FT4 too.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/diagno...

In the meantime ask for ferritin, vitamin D, B12 and folate to be tested as they often become low/deficient priorto getting a hypothyroid diagnosis and deficiency/low levels can cause musculoskeletal pain, fatigue and low mood similar to hypothyroid symptoms.

[sara747]

Hi Tracy

Its a pity they don't start to offer you advice for the hypothyroid condition you would be diagnosed with if in USA. They start to treat people from about 3.5 or lower TSH. The others advise getting more tests and results. I would do this and get a print out too. With symptoms you should be allowed to get those mentioned, Free T4 and Free T3 along with any checks for anti bodies. I would also change your doctor as they clearly don't understand the condition if are offering you anti depressants! I went through the same patronising nonsense with one doctor. Low thyroid (and everyone needs a different amount to function well) will cause up to 300 symptoms from head to toe... I had about 30 before I asked for a blood test which highlighted my TSH was 5.7/6 and antibodies near 1000 Tr 11.2 and Ft3 4.9 which in the T3 sense is considered normal.

The picture here is that my immune system had started to strike at my thyroid and was causing a lack of T4 by destroying my thyroid gland. The auto immune problem was likely being triggered by poor gut health - too much bad bacteria and GI problems of leaky gut... alongside this my estrogen levels were very high and my cortisol levels very low illustrating a hormone imbalance and adrenal fatigue / poor function. Along with iron, Vit D and vitamin B12 being low.

You start to build a picture that is unique to you and therefore the ability to recognise what is needed. I am still resisting Levothyroxin although considered subclinical by the Docs it is very much past that by the many symptoms I was having, fatigue, aches, depression, brain fog, anxiety and gritty sore eyes, dry face skin, swollen fingers, dry hair, loss of eyebrows, abdominal fat and so on.... not a joy ride.

I'm starting with stripping dairy soy and gluten out of my diet - there's much info online about this as to why - and then taking suppliments daily to heal my gut, rebalance the good bacteria with a pro biotic, heal the gut wall with L Glutamine, take suppliments for iron, vit B complex and Vit D, A and E along with a few others I was recommeneded in the health food shop. Important to get good brands if going gluten free incase there are fillers and binders there.

The Drs don't recognise adrenal fatigue but its these little glands that are key to supporting thyroid function too - and often they are depleted when stressed, tired, estrogen dominance is there as the cortisol is used up in making progesterone from pregnenelone too. Also too much estrogen through plastics in cooking, household cleaners, beauty products, birth control etc etc will also cause havoc. All these axis are key to maintain balance and keep our body's key engine - the thyroid and adrenals - running. Its becoming an epidemic issues and whilst I did loads of research and started to tell my new GP about it, she was willing to let me address it naturally and do some more blood tests in 2 months to see if anything had improved. There are people who have taken thyroid hormone- natural or synthetic who have also re-enabled the thyroid gland through homeopathy too.

don't loose heart but make sure you get all those bloods done and don't take no for an answer. its your life and your health and you deserve to know what you need to do. Its an unfortunate illness in that there is so little information available to people through the GPs - my GP has called me a landmark patient as she has learned things from my approach she didn't think to look for. This is down to having some free time and digging into the internet painfully for two months for answers!

Also when you read your blood results if anything looks lower than optimal - flag it as an issue even if in the normal range. Again, not something the GPs will do but its like solving a puzzle and so you have to do your own detective work.

I have been taking magnesium, selenium, zinc, pro biotic, vitamin C, D, B complex, E and A, kelp, L Glutamine, Glutathione, Licourice and Borage tincture for adrenal support and I think I need Betaine HCL for stomach enzyme support as I have always had slightly difficult digestion.

The repair of these glands may take months but its best to work on it now as clearly there's a start of a pattern that will progress unless you take things into your own hands and hopefully through natural methods you can heal yourself.

Keep monitoring your bloods and if your GP is not sympathetic, change them. This is a difficult condition to live with at first as its complex and worrying and not naturally understood by people so get the support you need. I think the above elements mayhelp with the depression and early signs, they have for me and I've just taken them all for 3-4 weeks now.

Hope this is helpful.

Take care.

[tracy28]

I have b12 injections every 12 weeks butneed thrm more ofter but they refuse to do them, my iron is 20, my folic acid is 4.1 which the doctors are saying is fine so won't treat. My mum also suffers the same as me but hypothyroid condition

[Hidden in reply to tracy28]

Your Iron is way too low, your folate deficient. The latest guidelines say folate below 7 is deficient.

You should never be ruled out by a TSH, you need FT4 and FT3 doing too

Can I suggest you print off the symptoms on the main Thyroid UK site and tick the relevant ones to you and take them to another GP at your practice? I had to do this myself, I also took my temperature every morning before getting out of bed for at least 5 days. Record the readings and take them to your doctor. My temperatures at that time were in the 34's a normal temperature is around 37 degrees. Also ask for your cholesterol to be done as if it's often raised in hypothyroidism.

I got diagnosed on a TSH of 5, but my FT4 was well low at 13, and my FT3 was at 3, the bottom of the range that lab used.

Bottom line blood tests are fallible, the ranges are very broad. Diagnosis should be based on your symptoms. Unfortunately most doctors don't know the symptoms, that's why you need to take the list in. My GP's face was a picture, she had no idea, but she diagnosed me and we worked as a team to try and make me well. Shame I don't have her now!

[humanbean in reply to Hidden]

Just a point about cholesterol. As Helcaster says, it is often raised when people have hypothyroidism. If you get it tested and it turns out to be high, please don't take statins.

Cholesterol isn't bad for you. If you get your thyroid hormones to a good level your cholesterol will drop naturally anyway, without taking statins. (I wouldn't take statins even if you paid me, despite my high cholesterol.)

[tracy28 in reply to humanbean]

Is that a glucose fasting test ????

[humanbean in reply to tracy28]

No, there is no connection (that I know of) between a glucose fasting test and cholesterol testing.

[tracy28 in reply to humanbean]

Ok not sure why they did that then ....

[humanbean in reply to tracy28]

A glucose fasting test would be done to check for diabetes (as far as I know).

[Hidden in reply to tracy28]

Have you told the doctor your mum is hypothyroid? It runs in families. They should add it as a marker that your thyroid is at risk.

Many people who need B12 injections say the same - that they aren't given often enough. There's a group for people who are B12 deficient, link here: b12d.org/

Try a good quality Vitamin D3. It may help your mood. Sunshine in a bottle

[Hidden in reply to tracy28]

Get some Sublingual B12 and top up between injections.

[tracy28]

I have more bloods being taken tomorrow but only for menopause which is rubbish...... im going to try and see if the nurse will do some extra ones. The doctors are a nightmare, I saw them this week trying to get my jab early but they wont have it, I have not lost any weight since my daughter was 6 weeks old she is now 16 months despite goibg to the gym 3 times a week when energy and mood allows

[Dar68 in reply to tracy28]

Hi Tracy, I don't understand why GPs don't listen to us and just offer antidepressants. My TSH was 5.6 and I struggled to get treatment but I kept reading lots of information on here and kept on until eventually I was given 25mcg of levo, 3 GPs later. Now I am on 75mcg levo and 5mcg T3 but I had to see a private Endo for that. I have B12 injections too.

My daughter who is 21 and had a TSH of 3.49 with lots of symptoms has seen an NHS Endo and a new GP at our surgery and because of me and family history of hypo she has been started on 50mcg of levo.

Have you mentioned your mum being hypo.

Angela x

[tracy28 in reply to Dar68]

Hi Angela, yes the doctors know about mum, my nan also had something to do with too much calcium in her body but they wont listen. It just worries me as I have a 3 year old daughter who had an iron count of 2 and it was only me pushing got her tested and she was under a paediatrician, if I hadnt of insisted we may not have her now...... her count is only 9 now after 4 months pure iron, its scarey to know how far gps let things go before acting x

[Dar68 in reply to tracy28]

So sorry to hear about your daughter I hope she will be ok.

My daughter is 21 and with her permission I always go with her to her appointments because I don't trust the doctor's. Your daughter needs her mummy well. Xx

[Hidden]

I had to self treat after my doctor referred me to a psychiatrist. I now pay for proper lab tests myself and self treat with natural Dessicated Thyroid. Synthetic throid treatments only contain T4, the storage hormone. NDT has T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitronin. Funilly enough your own thyroid also produces T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitronin.

[Heloise]

It is a shame that guidelines aren't followed for thyroid treatment in the UK. That is why many have decided to treat themselves. Depression is just one more symptom that will resolve when you have good thyroid numbers. Here is why:

youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_CP7l...(Not working as expected?)

[Pinkpeony in reply to Heloise]

Great doctor Heloise, how to find one in the UK. 😱

Cheers Pp

[Hidden]

There is a booklet put out by the British Medical Association entitled 'Family Doctor Guide to Thyroid Disorders' by Dr Anthony Toft. On page 62, the recommended TSH range is: 0.15 - 3.5! The American Endocrinologist's recommended range Is 0.30 - 3.0! Your doctor is an idiot! You must insist that you have a full panel of tests, most importantly the Thyroid Antibodies Test. Your FT4 and FT3 should also be tested.

[tracy28 in reply to Hidden]

Apparently the level has been raised to 5 in the UK now which is why the lab report says normal

[Hidden]

If that is the case, I am truly perplexed. In most countries the trend is now bringing the upper limit of TSH downward as they realise that a TSH above 2.5 increases the risk of cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. The BMA range I quoted, from the'Family Doctor Guide to Thyroid disorders, was first published in1999. The book is still available and the author Anthony Toft is considered to be a very eminent British Endocrinologist. If you make enquiries, I am absolutely certain that you will discover that the reference ranges from city to city and even different labs within the same city vary considerably. The level of TSH a very unreliable measure of Thyroid health.

1. It has a distinct circadian rhythm...TSH levels are higher in the middle of the night and reaching its lowest level late afternoon. Estimates vary between 73% and 140%.

2. The level goes up after fasting for10-12 hours.

3. If you are taking thyroid supplement, the level is higher before the blood sample is taken

4. The level is higher if you are sleep deprived.

So, if you can, go for your TSH test in the morning (as early as you can). Postpone any thyroid medication until after the test. Fast for at least ten hours before you go, and wake yourself up during the night to ensure you are sleep deprived.

Trust me. I have read a number of medical studies that have established the above facts. Does it work? Well for me it did! My doctor wanted to decrease my medication when a lab result showed a TSH level of 0.20. I asked he to keep me on the same level of meds and take another test in a months time. That next test put my TSH level at 4.5! In NZ our labs open at 7.0am (I turned up at 7.05am), but even if you give a sample before 10 am or even 12pm, using all of the above criteria, it will push your TSH up.