Advice on test results please

Hi! Happy new year to everyone! I haven't posted for a while as I have had issues with an abnormal ECG that showed a T wave inversion. As I also get missed beats and palpitations I asked the consultant if it was linked to my thyroid and he ignored the question as insignificant :/ He also ignored the high ferritin on my last test but I do have frozen shoulder so maybe it was that but he wasn't concerned. After a few heart tests I have now been discharged as ECG must be normal for me! :/ I am now on 100mg levothyroxine but as my own doctor wouldn't test me again I has a test at blue horizon as I am still feeling tired depressed and fat! I told my doctor that I don't eat much anyway so he just said "well eat less!" Harsh I thought!

Are the test results ok, I had them done about 11am as the phlebotomist was running late but didn't take the Levo before.

TSH 0.479 (0.270-4.2)

Free T4 17.06 (12-22)

Free T3 4.5 (3.1-6.8)

Any advice much appreciated!

30 Replies

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  • Affected t wave is very typical of hypothyroid

    what are your

    ferritin

    folate

    b12

    results ???

    Frozen shoulder is very typical of under medicated hypothyroid and could also prove a need for NDT rather than levo ..................levo itself can cause horrendous aches and pains etc

    it looks like you might not be converting t4 into T3 and this may be down to any of above 3 levels

  • Hi reallyfedup123 thanks for your reply, why would NDT be necessary and how can you tell if I'm not converting if the levels are within the range? Thankyou!

  • Cara, it's not a question of just being 'in range', it's a question of where in the range. The rule of thumb is that if your FT4 is higher in its range than the FT3 in its, then you aren't converting well. The FT4 should be lower.

    Your FT3 is just below mid-range, which is too low - most people need it up near the top of the range to feel well. But also, your FT4 is just below mid-range, so you haven't got much T4 to convert. Seems to me that what you need is - at the very least - an increase in T4, and when it's a bit higher we'll be able to see whether you're converting or not.

    NDT (Natural Dessicated Thyroid) contains both T4 and T3 (and probably others) because our thyroids, when they are working correctly, produce both. It's the T3 that our bodies have most need of. And if we don't co if we don't convert very well, NDT gives us more of what we need.

    The consultant probably ignored your question because he just has no idea! None of them have any idea about thyroid. But, in any case, one can never say with certainty that something is 'nothing to do with your thyroid' - unless, of course, one knows for certain that something else is causing it - because thyroid hormone is needed by every single cell in the body, and if there's not enough of it (or too much) all sorts of things can - and do - go wrong. It can be responsible for anything and everything - either directly or indirectly. And as you are still hypo, all your problems could be caused by low thyroid. Your low

    TSH could have been due to the time at which the blood was taken, and doesn't mean in anyway mean that you are on the correct dose - the low frees are witness to the fact that you aren't.

    Hugs, Grey

  • Thanks for your reply greygoose. The consultant never discussed my thyroid with me, just the fact that a health check ECG was showing T wave inversion so as he couldn't find the reason for it recommended a statin instead of the fenofibrate I was taking due to high blood fat. I have made an appointment to see my doctor next week but I'm not sure she will change my medication. It was a male doctor at the practice who just told me to eat less so I daren't go back to him. I will also mention my frozen shoulder as the doctor got annoyed with me as the X-Ray showed nothing so she said I should expect it at my age :( this was a year ago and it's still bad

  • Male or female, that advice was just wrong for anybody, but epecially for someone as hypo as you. You should report him before he kills someone!

    Don't take statins. The cause so many other problems. They are just bad.

    Is it not possible for you to change to another practice where there might actually be a doctor with a few brain cells? Seems to me time for you to take charge of your own health.

  • Hi! Thank you very much for your reply. My ferritin results were posted here about 7 months ago and people advised me at the time to get it checked but when i went for my ecg the doctor didn't seem concerned by it:

    Active B12 85 pmol/L (25.1-165.0)

    Folate (serum) 10.8 og/L (4.6-18.7)

    Ferritin 250 ug/L (13-150)

    I've had frozen shoulder for over a year now and it's so hard to get dressed but I have adapted. It pulls me up with a sharp pain when I forget about it and reach for something.

    My ecg showed T wave inversion in four leads so I had an Mri which showed fat round the heart but was told that anybody could have this on an mri. They couldn't find the reason for the T wave inversion so have just put it down to me :\

    I kept telling the consultant (heart consultant) about being on levo but he just ignored me and said it wouldn't affect the heart yet I have since googled it and found it can.

    I have now been put on 10mg of statin but have yet to start it as I don't like the thought of statins.

    I also worry if a higher dose of levothyroxine would affect my missed beats as sometimes my heart races too.

  • Cara, very dismaying to read this go-around. It's discouraging that they avoid the very thing that would help you and then give you things that may only make you worse. Your ferritin being so high means you have inflammation. Some of this could be fluid build-up.

    What would help ALL of this? T3

    By the way, you don't have a deficiency of statin drugs but you might have another deficiency if you take it, namely, co enzyme Q 10 which is vital to your heart muscle by the way.

    Sometimes I feel like there is conspiracy to keep everyone from having T3.

  • Hi Heloise thanks for your reply, how would T3 help? I'm very new to all this having been 25 mg Levo for so many years and now on 100mg in the last year.

  • Cara, for at least one hundred years, hypothyroid patients were given natural thyroid from pigs because they have very similar hormone to human and it was very successful. It was because it contains the elements of T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin.

    But they began making T4 in the lab; that is what your replacement hormone consists of so you receive a synthetic T4 and your body now has to process it. You have to convert that synthetic T4 into T3 where it becomes usable to the tissue and into cells. If anything goes wrong during the processing you may have problems. Your levels above all seem too low and ferritin, too high so you may not be getting much T3, even the T3 your body is making. In fact, when you don't process T4 very well, you will end up with reverse T3 which is less than useful. Reverse T3 CAN be measured but as you have found, they really don't investigate thyroid problems and many people go to Blue Horizon labs for private testing, You were on such a low dose and now at a 100, does this mean your own thyroid was working well enough for your needs or have you just been under medicated for years? The only person I've known on such a low dose of T4 was my 90 year old mother in law. Plus, if you remain hypo for long you will compound the problems with other deficiencies; B12, vitamin D, etc. etc. probably due to low stomach acid. It's a vicious cycle that could probably be avoided with proper treatment from the start.

    There are many good articles that will help you learn what you need to know.

    health.howstuffworks.com/hu...

  • Thanks Heloise. I'm sure I've been under medicated for years as I never questioned the doctor. It was only after being on this forum that got my dose increased to 100. I don't like to argue and find doctors very intimidating and have always respected their judgement. At the time I was put on years ago I was concerned about tiredness and the doctor thought I might have angina but this was never proven so they left me on 25mg for years and I just kept feeling worse all the time. Thanks for the referral to the articles :)

  • Cara, if you get angry enough, will that stop the intimidation? Let me tell you what they have done to both of us. By being under medicated:

    1. your metabolism is slower and you burn 17 calories less per hour than normal people.

    2. the lack of hormone to your heart...now finding enlarged left ventricle and lag in the r wave. Someone mentioned t waves also. I don't know about that but my ecg showed what I mentioned.

    circ.ahajournals.org/conten...

    3. your stomach lining is effected and probably interfering with the acid you need to digest properly

    4. poor digestion causes all sorts of deficiencies and especially B12

    5. B12 deficiencies cause

    Weakness, tiredness, or light-headedness

    Rapid heartbeat and breathing

    Pale skin

    Sore tongue

    Easy bruising or bleeding, including bleeding

    gums

    Stomach upset and weight loss

    Diarrhea or constipation

    If you can't muster the courage, take someone with you but absorb some of the basic information first.

    I could go on and on. I have been posting these five minutes videos by a functional neurologist. If you have time, you should watch all of them to see the problems that low thyroid causes throughout the whole endocrine system. This is #1 and #2 regarding serotonin and dopamine.

  • If it was me I'd try everything else before statins!

  • Hi Silverfox7 why would you not take statins?

  • theres more and more evidence mounting by the day of the dangers and problems with statins not least of which is extreme muscle and joint pains!!!!!!!!!!!

  • And why do they want you to take statins? Is it because your cholesterol is high? When you treat your hypothyroidism, that will go down.

  • Apart from friends not happy with them I found this the other day

    naturalnews.com.html

  • Hi silverfox7 the link doesn't work?

  • Bother. I just copied the link I got and I'm not a whizz kid to be able to play about with it but will try!

  • This took me to the main site so searched Statins. Didn't take me to the thing I'd seen before but said some of it but mostly about cholesterol which is why statins are given in the first place. It did say they would email a free 8 page article which I was about to access and then lost HU which is being iffy about logging in at the moment! Grrr but we learnt at the conference that it's not right to say we must lower our cholesterol, that's harmful. I'll go and work out why site isn't storing my details! Basically though I see others are saying the same thing from different sources.

  • healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

    This earlier thread on High levels of cholesterol may help you. When you have read lots and gained information - it will give you the confidence and knowledge to ask meaningful questions of your GP. Probably questions he will not be able to answer or want to as he is governed by Guidelines - ones that are keeping people ill.

    Typing Cholesterol into the search box on the Green Bar at the top of this page - then press Enter on your Keyboard and more posts will appear.

    It is not possible to have GOOD or BAD cholesterol as they are one and the same thing. A Carrier protein.

    There is a book on amazon called - Thyroid and Heart Failure. It's a compilation of the research done in Italy about LOW T3 and the performance of the Heart. It's very expensive but you can peep at the contents on-line and that should tell you that T3 is the star of the show :-) It was the first time Endocrinologists and Cardiologists had come together for research purposes.

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

    amazon.co.uk/Thyroid-Heart-...

  • Hi Marz, thankyou so much for those articles! The book looks amazing, I've had a look inside via Amazon but obviously can't see the bits I would love to see...very expensive! I really hadn't realised how linked the thyroid and heart are and can't believe that the ECG consultant I saw ignored my questions on me taking levothyroxine. He was just the heart function by exercise testing ( which I was rubbish at) and MRI that was inconclusive as I refused the stress part which was an injection to make my heart race to see what happened. Also the other link was so relevant as I was offered tablets for depression which I refused :/

    I will try to ask for armour but I don't think it's available in uk but at least I may get some T3 added to my Levo if possible when I see my gp next week

  • Try googling Low T3 syndrome - it may thro up some interesting articles :-)

  • circ.ahajournals.org/conten...

    This is just one piece of research done by the Italian guys that wrote the book that I mentioned earlier :-)

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    Sorry this was the only way I could do it! Long winded yes but gets a lot of points across!

  • Thankyou!

  • I know a lot of comments go far back but I've not seen anything that says it's all wrong plus the fact that it's the drug companies that are pushing them enough said!

  • I had a lot of palpitations, tachycardia, breathlessness and tightness in my chest. My ecg showed t wave abnormality. Endo said it was normal to feel like that! My gp felt it was the levo, so I stopped and it solved my cardiac symptoms. I've been to cardiac consultant and she said she was beyond doubt that the levo was causing my problem. Now I'm searching for a new endo! I am NOT advising you to stop your medication, all I am saying is keep searching til you get the answers you need to feel well. Levo and cardiac symptoms can be related. Good luck!

  • For more people than they like to admit levo is causing major problems

  • I saw my doctor yesterday and she said she couldn't increase my Levo as my TSH is normal :/ I have terrible ringing in my ears, frozen shoulder, really bad aching hip so I can hardly walk some days but that comes and goes, abnormal Ecgs, split thumb nails and feel rough. I showed the doctor Dr Tofts book open at the page about medication, showed her my blue lab rest results and all she could offer me was a steroid injection for my shoulder. I really don't know what the answer is....I'm not going to take my statins though!

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