Hi Can anyone advise on the best B!2 supplement? Have been taking Health Aid B12 but suspect this is not the 'right' sort of B12.

[SnowdropB]

[Fruitandnutcase]

I use Jarrows Methyl B12, I get mine from Amazon and they are dispached from the US but I have just heard been told today that you can get them from the UK at this place bigvits.co.uk I take the 5000mcg ones, I was at the lower end of the range, i will be interested to see how much difference they maje next time I am tested, they are sublingual and take a while to dissolve but are quite pleasant to have in your mouth for that length of time.

Liz x

[SnowdropB in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Hi Liz

I am just above the lower end of the normal range. I had read that taking up to 2000mg was safe. I am a little nervous going above that. Do they do lower strength ones? What is the implications of taking then sublingually?

Many thanks

Frances

[Marz in reply to SnowdropB]

Popping them under the tongue means they should go directly into the system. Many people have problems in the gut that prevents the correct absorption of B12 and its ensuing journey through the gut to the terminal ileum where most of it is absorbed. It's more of a worry if you do not take B12 as it is a VERY important vitamin b12d.org

There are also good books - Could it be B12 - and another one by Browstein - oops sorry out on loan at present and cannot remember the name. Also please check out the information on the main Thyroid UK website - always a good place to start looking for information before posting.

Hope they work well for you. I take 1000mcg in the morning and another 1000 in the evening. Out of interest what was your B12 blood result ? It is only a quideline as it only shows you what is in the blood and not what is happening at a cellular level where it is active. There is a new ACTIVE B12 test and there is information again on Thyroid UK I believe.

[waveylines]

I take the Jarrows Methyl B12 1000mcg form the Big Vit.co .uk but also I buy them from Amazon -depends on who's got the best deal.....-I was lucky they seemed to do the trick. I combined them with a high complex B vit tablet -Lamberts with folate in it -I was bouncing for a fair few months but not so much recently.....maybe I need a re-test & review what I am taking? or maybe it is becasue I stupidly allowed grains back into my diet.... Sigh.....does feel never ending! x

[Soldieress]

BetterYou 12 Boost Pure Energy Oral Spray has Methylcobalamin-B12 (apparently the better form of B12) it also has chromium & Green Tea Extract. You can get it from SOME Holland & Barratt stores. My endo recently said to me that new research found that all forms of B12 are as good as each other. Hmmm, what to believe...? Best of luck

[nostoneunturned]

Just checked out Health Aid's B12, they seem only to have cyanocobalamin, so looks like you are taking the least efficient form of B12. Buy Jarrow's or Swanson's B12, methylcobalamin form, 5000mcg per tablet =5mg, readily assimilated by body. from Amazon. Safest to take folic acid supplementation also, to help with B12, about 800mcg folic acid daily OK. B12 is never toxic so do not worry, any excess just excreted. Interested to know your present B12 level?

The endo who said that all forms of B12 are equally OK seems not to know what he is talking about if he was including cyanocobalamin in his statement. Cyanocobalamin has been removed from the WHO list of essential drugs at the insistence of medics, who further said cyanocobalamin manufacture should stop. The "cyano" bit refers to the cyanide molecule picked up in the process of manufacture and taking cyanocobalamin form of B12 can be dangerous for smokers, those with other problems.

[SnowdropB in reply to nostoneunturned]

I did a general reply as below - not sure if you are alerted to it.

Many thanks for all the helpful responses.

My last question is do you take them with food or not and some way from taking levothyroxine?

My last result (and they have been fairly consistent for my B12) was B12 267 (197 - 866): Folate 10.4 (4.6 - 18.7); Ferritin 117 (13-150); Serum Iron 11 (8.8 -27.00)

[nostoneunturned in reply to SnowdropB]

Your B12 is too low at 267, this is only 70 above the bottom of the range. Unfortunately there is a great deal ignorance and complacency in the medical profession about B12 when at low levels. I was left untreated at 167(180-800) with many symptoms. Desperate, I raised my serum B12 level to way beyond 1400 by taking Swanson's B12 methylcobalamin from Amazon sublingually. I was lucky as this procedure does not suit everybody, some only do well with injections. Please take the methylcobalamin tablets sublingually. First, there is no need to avoid mealtimes as the subl B12 goes into the bloodstream via membranes under tongue, so avoiding intestinal malabsorption issues, so subl means the question of taking them away from food does not arise: and second, I took at least 5 x 5000mcg subl daily (25000mcg daily, equal to 25mg, and the Dutch hold such a dosage to be the equivalent of 2 injections a week. Do not worry about any dosage being too high, B12 is nontoxic and any excess just gets excreted, but do bear in mind that if you start subl B12 then subsequent B12 tests will be distorted.

If you begin B12 supplementation then please also take folic acid at about 800mcg daily. Your folate level is pretty good but will be used up by B12 supplementation.

Also at this low level new blood cells will be made by supplementation and this puts strain on potassium levels so you will need to emphasis potassium bearing foods, such as bananas, figs, blackstrap molasses

Ideally you should be checked out for Pernicious Anaemia by testing for Intrinsic Factor antibodies and also for Parietal Cell antibodies, but probably you will not be, because of the complacency and ignorance surrounding B12. Unfortunately the IF ab test (for PA ) is not really reliable, many people drop through the cracks, and if the problem is Parietal Cell issues

from which the IF is derived then if you have no IF because the Parietal Cells are malfunctioning then why do they look for IF abs??

If you are vegetarian then you must be aware that B12 is found solely from animal sources, lamb's liver, chicken liver, herring being good sources as they also "packaged" with the necessary folate. Cow's milk has B12, also cheese, eggs. Goat's milk has less B12 than cow's milk. Marmite has some B12 as it is made by a bacterial fermentation process suitable for vegetarians. To facilitate B12 absorption from diet I use Solgar's Betaine Hydrochloride with Pepsin, just one with main meal which includes protein. Strengthening the hydrochloric acid in this way improves the power of the stomach acid to cleave the B12 from the protein. Us hypothyrodians usually have low power hydrochloric acid in our stomachs, but few medics are aware of this or interested.

You can monitor both folate and serum B12 levels for about £30 for a combined test, though they sometimes have offers, my last test was only £20 for combined test. without any need for a doctor's referral, at:

myrios.co.uk

This is the firm I use, the B12 measurement units they use is pmol/l but if more familiar with ng/l just divide pmol/l by 0.738 to get ng/l.

There is an Active B12 test now widely available, you can find details of this on the main site:

thyroiduk.org

Just use the menu on the left hand side.

If you want to read more detail on what I did then go to:

pasoc.healthunlocked.com/bl...

If you have any questions just ask, many others here have the same problem and much knowledge.

Sorry, I cannot deal with the ferritin/iron issues but you might find info on:

labtestsonline.org.uk

or on this site:

stopthethyroidmadness.com

[SnowdropB in reply to nostoneunturned]

Hi

What a fantastic source of information. I shall look forward to following up all the suggested links.

You suggest taking 800mcg of folate - does the amount depend on how much B12 you are taking or is it a good standard dose. Can you over dose on folate??

[nostoneunturned in reply to SnowdropB]

Folic acid is the (external) supplement used to boost the body's (internal) folate levels. It works with the B12 to enhance B12's absorptiutilisation. Never supplement with folic acid alone, I mean without also taking supplementary B12, as the folic acid intake can then mask nerve degeneration due to insufficiency of B12. 800mcg is a standard dose. I am unaware of any possibility of overdosing on folic acid, but at 800mcg folic acid daily this is a "balancing dose", a standard one as you put it, which ought to be taken while supplementing with B12. Some B12 supplements are packaged with folic acid, find them on Amazon in Health and Beauty section.

Maximise your dietary folate intake with info from my previous post as well as 800mcg supplementation folic acid. Abandon all junk food!

Some countries are supplementing the population's intake of folic acid as a lack of it in pregnant women can cause neural tube defects in newborns, but such mass medication might have repercussions by masking effects of B12 deficiency.

"Could it be B12?" by Sally Pacholok and Jeffrey Stuart and "Pernicious Anaemia" by Martyn Hooper are deeply interesting reading, as is the research by Professor David A Smith and H Refsum. Martyn started the PA Society after his own dreadful experience recounted in his book. PA Society membership is about £20, but the forums are free access. Hampster1's story is there: she is very knowledgeable and posts on here often.

If you are going to raise your B12 levels yourself then bear in mind this will skew any tests you have, but medics are so unaware of the bad effects of B12 deficiency that if you do ask for treatment you will likely meet what I met: scorn, anger, dismissal, so DIY might be the only route, apart from self-injecting, PA has info on that but I chose tablets as cannot self inject - the spring loaded finger tip piercing lancets for blood testing are OK for me as a natural coward. You can do the combined test from Myrios at the start then in 3 or 4 months do another, the levels are serum levels but tests only about £30, whereas the Active B12 tests available are about £65+ so I understand. Your NHS test will be the serum level, that is the whole amount of B12 in you, not the Active fraction which is a lower percentage of the serum level.

After 4 months of at least 5 x 5000mcg (5mg) Swanson tabs daily all my 28 symptoms had gone, including a big. fat, beefy-red ulcerated deeply fissured tongue which GP would not even look at, never to return as I now need only 3 x 5000mcg tabs once a week all on the same day to maintain high (around 1200) serum B12 plus high in range folate without any folic acid supplementation as diet change supplies that.

Hope this helps you. Happy to answer any more questions if I can. Reading some of the stories on the PA forums of the consequences of medic's indifference will spur you on beyond the complacency of your endo's, for one, incomprehensible complacency.

[SnowdropB]

Many thanks for all the helpful responses.

My last question is do you take them with food or not and some way from taking levothyroxine?

My last result (and they have been fairly consistent for my B12) was B12 267 (197 - 866): Folate 10.4 (4.6 - 18.7); Ferritin 117 (13-150); Serum Iron 11 (8.8 -27.00)

[Framboise]

I've taken Jarrow's chewable methylcobalamin for some years but recently they reformulated them (where have we heard that before!) so I did a search to see what people thought, and according to a few threads in places like Phoenixrising they are no longer so good, or bioavailable. So this time I've bought Solgar's sublingual 1000mgs which were recommended in a local homeopathic pharmacy. It would be interesting to know what people here think of the new formulation of Jarrows though, because they used to be very good.

[nostoneunturned in reply to Framboise]

Interesting! I have always used Swanson's methylcobalamin 5000mcg tablets, taken sublingually, as they are cheaper than Jarrow's plus Swanson's firm is on Dr J Lowe's list of good firms. I understood that the B12 molecule is small enough to facilitate B12 absorption sublingually and so sublingually is universally the best way to take B12. I wonder what Jarrow's have done to make the B12 less biologically available, and also I see you refer to Jarrow's chewable versus Solgar's sublingual so could it be that the Jarrow's chewable might become bioavailable if taken sublingually?

[Framboise in reply to nostoneunturned]

Sorry I meant sublingual for both although I usually chewed the Jarrows. I didn't know that Dr Lowe had a list of good supplement firms, I shall look out for Swanson's next time. I didn't actually try the new formulation of the Jarrows, I was searching online for a source as the one I'd used previously no longer sold it, and found the threads about it then saw the jars looked different from usual when I found it online so decided to try Solgar this time.

[Plume]

If supplementing with Methyl B12, it is sensible to use the METHYL Folate as well, otherwise the methylation cycle (Where the methylation defect resides) is not fully supported.

The enzyme MTHFR is involved in this methylation process.

This Link provides information provided by Dr Ben Lynch on how to address methylation issues.

mthfr.net/mthfr-c677t-mutat...

He and Dr Amy Lashko (Worth Googling) are the world experts in this field.

One should study their texts before embarking on support for methylation, such as by using Methyl B 12 or Methyl Folate, the so-called "Active" B vitamins

[Jennie13]

Hi I've just been diagnosed with b12 deficiency my level was 172 totally clueless as to what's best for me, as my doctor didn't even explain to me what I need to be doing, I was told over phone and been left to fend for myself, they prescribed cyanocobalamin but I'm not happy taking them, I bought methyl cobalamin nuggets they are only a low dose and I feel I need something more, I have no luck trying to get injections from doctors so want to treat myself the best way I can, I've been having neurological symptoms such as head fog, loss of concentration, memory loss, extreme fatigue and tired all the time, I am 34 and have 3 children so really need my energy levels back up, it's affecting my work and all aspects of my life, I eat well and exercise on a regular basis, neeeeeed help please

[humanbean in reply to Jennie13]

Jennie13, you would be best to post on the Pernicious Anaemia Forum, which you'll find here :

healthunlocked.com/pasoc

They are the experts in B12 deficiency.

Post a new post rather than posting at the end of someone else's thread, because doing so is likely to get your post overlooked.

Edit : And I've just noticed this is a 4-year-old thread.