Has anyone been advised by their oncologist to stop chemo 1 week before and 1 week after a Covid vaccination?

[MyMiracle13]

Hello. I had my first dose of Astra Zeneca on 19 May and was told by my onc to stop taking Xeloda one week before the vaccination and another week after. Yesterday I had my blood tests and my CA15-3 increased by 12% and CEA by 50%. I’m wondering if this has been caused by my 2 week stoppage of Xeloda. I am on metrodosing by the way 1,500mg daily. Could you tell me of your experiences getting the Covid vaccination?

[Pbsoup]

My markers went up after the vaccine. It could be coincidence, but my oncologist said he observed several patients experience the same thing. Even a few who had been in remission.

They were down 50 points the next time I went in

I wonder if the CDC is tracking this at all to get aggregate data vs anecdotal...

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Pbsoup]

Thanks for the reply. It would be great if an organization could collect data on this. As you say it could be a coincidence but also maybe not. I hope my blood work next month shows a decrease.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to MyMiracle13]

Hello again. May I know what brand vaccine you had?

[Pbsoup in reply to MyMiracle13]

Hi. I had the Pfizer...

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Pbsoup]

Thanks😊

[Evaw in reply to MyMiracle13]

Good to know about this. My markers also went up after first Astrazeneca vaccine. Had to do scan as we thought it was progression but it came back as stable.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Evaw]

I’m also happy to know that I’m not the only one this has happened to.

[Hidden]

I was told it was ok to have whilst on treatment. It was my week off Ibrance the first injection but my 3rd week when I had my second one. I just felt tired but my bloods were fine. Hope this helps. I had Pfizer jabs. I’m on Letrozole, Ibrance and Denosumab with Vitamin D and Adcal

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for the reply. I’m glad you had minimal side effects.

[Valisa]

My oncologist also recommended the same, I was off Ibrance one week before and stayed off for a week after both my first and second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. I continued to take letrozole and also had my monthly xgeva injection 2 days before my second jab. I have not had my tumour markers checked since I had my vaccine so can not comment on that. I know other women in my area that had their vaccine and did not stop treatment. I am in Ontario, Canada.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Valisa]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose for some oncologists, they stop treatment to give the body time to increase WBC and platelets. But if WBC and platelets are okay, maybe there is no need to stop treatment. Just a thought.

[Thatflowerlady in reply to Valisa]

I am also from Ontario have you had your second vaccine ?

[Valisa in reply to Thatflowerlady]

Yes, they offered it 3 weeks from date of first vaccine but I waited 5 weeks so it lined up with being off Ibrance for 1 week. I am in Waterloo Region, it was a very efficient process. I was fully vaccinated by early May. I have 3 other MBC friends close by that have all had their second dose as well in the last few weeks. Have you had your second dose?

[Thatflowerlady in reply to Valisa]

No I just had my first dose on May 27 th . I had trouble booking an appointment for the dr recommended Pfizer vaccine , I was told I was eligible , wasn’t eligible , was eligible by a few different drs so I just booked when there were appointments available online .It looks like I will have to call the Local health unit for the second one as all appointments are booked at the mass clinics . And I agree very efficient process at the vaccination clinic .

[Iwasborntodothis]

I had no advice like this whatsoever and had both doses of the Phiszer (spelling?) while on Xeloda. My markers have not stopped their downward trend and I had no significant side effects.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Iwasborntodothis]

Thanks for replying. What medication are you on?

[Iwasborntodothis in reply to MyMiracle13]

Xeloda and Xgeva

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Iwasborntodothis]

Thanks. Sorry I didn’t see the Xeloda in your reply earlier. I am on the same meds. Glad Xeloda is still working for you. May it continue to do so for a long time.

[13plus]

Interesting question! I’m going to have to go back and review the months of bloodwork around my 2 Moderne vaccines again. My doc did tell me the same break schedule around the first vaccine. Off the top of my head I can’t recall what I did the second time but I think I did it the same again for the second vaccine. I also had to take a break before a colonoscopy this year, so with all those interruptions I did wonder if that escalated the rise in my TM that was already happening this year. Recent scan does show progression too but I will never know if it was from all these interruptions. The stop/start was made even worse by the fact that I usually need a 2 week break between the 21 day regimen so there was significant downtime from taking the IBrance (exgeva and faslodex proceeded as usual)

[MyMiracle13 in reply to 13plus]

Thanks for the reply. If you have the chance to review your TMs around the time of your vaccinations, please let me know the results.

[MyMiracle13]

Hi Sandra. Many thanks for the response. I gather you haven’t had blood work done after the labs which you had after the vaccinations? It would be interesting to know if they have returned to previous levels. May I know what vaccine you had? Mine was Astra Zeneca.

[SeattleMom]

Hello!I just started Xeloda yesterday, but was on Faslodex while I had both vaccinations. I was never told to stop treatment.

💗💗🙏🏻🙏🏻

Linda

[MyMiracle13 in reply to SeattleMom]

Thanks for the reply. think Faslodex is not chemo so it probably doesn’t lower the WBC and platelets so much.

[Beryl71]

I'm on ibrance and was told to try to organise during my week off. It didn't cause any problems. Although at my subsequent blood test a month later my neutrophils were low but I'm not sure there was any connection.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Beryl71]

Thanks for the response. So when you had your vaccines, your neutrophils were okay?

[Beryl71 in reply to MyMiracle13]

As far as I know, but it was in the middle of my two months of palbociclib, when I don't have a test. So my test had been a month before.

[Hidden]

I just made sure I had my injections when my neutrophils were over 1 so had them right after a good blood test result. I’ve had both now

My CA-153 also climbed slightly at my last results 6% and I hadn’t had any break in treatment ~ I’m taking comfort from the fact it’s still over 80% down on where it started (over 1,300) and yes it’s gone up slightly since April but still lower than March and I am just refining my integrative approach to try and course correct.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Hidden]

What medication are you on? Thanks for the reply. Did you have another test for the CA15-3 recently and if so, have they gone down again from the slight increase after the vaccinations?

[Hidden in reply to MyMiracle13]

Hi in terms of standard of care I am on Ibrance (palbociclib) and letrozole with denosumab injections monthly to support bones. I have ER+ HERC2- metastatic breast cancer

I am also on the Care Oncology Clinic portfolio and quite a number of supplements a I am following the advice in the book/online course from Jane McLelland on how to starve cancer.

I am not due my next blood test for a few weeks. I didn’t notice any rise after the first injection (but it could have been masked by all other things I am doing) this is the first time since diagnosed and the initial marker recorded that the CA-153 has risen. I know I am still way higher than the normal levels at 254 but take comfort in the level of impact I’ve already had an 80% reduction is pretty good

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks again for the reply. What supplements are you taking?

[Hidden in reply to MyMiracle13]

I take quite a number for different purposes having read Jane McLelland’s book

I have some notes I’ve started writing up not all done yet but I’ll post below

[Hidden in reply to MyMiracle13]

The supplements I take are based on Jane McLelland’s book (How to Starve Cancer) and her online course, plus input from Dr Julian Keynon, advice from talks or articles by Chris Woollam’s and I have run all this by a Medical Herbalist ~ Nicky Lewis

So Jane has identified five abnormal processes that happen to cause a cell to become cancerous and then has suggested treatment options to manage the relevant metabolic pathways. There are ‘off label’ drugs that help work on the relevant pathways but by and large I have focussed on supplements (although I do take a few off-label drugs as per the Care Oncology Clinic protocol except I don’t take the doxycycline they recommend as I am working on gut health)

I’ll send the information through in sections to you as it is quite involved if that is ok so here goes the first one

1 Abnormal cell signalling

There is evidence this has is emerging which suggests that one of the causes of cancer is due either to prolonged explore to inflammatory cytokines which release COX (cyclo-oxygenase which fuels cancer growth ~ such as Interleukin 6 (IL6) which is released from deep visceral fat, chronic infection or prolonged exposure to a carcinogen) or prolonged stimulation of toll-like receptors which detect infectious agents such a bacterial parasites, virus or fungi . To normalise cell signalling I therefore take the following for each of the relevant elements

~ IL1 manage via Curcumin, Omega 3 and Bosweilia

~ WNT Signalling (which is responsible for the invasion and progression or herpes virus and plays a part in encouraging bone metastases) manage via Quercetin, Vitamin D, Astaxanthin & Curcumin

~ Hedgehog Signalling manage via Sulforaphane (from diet include broccoli spouts), Berberine, Vitamin D, Curcumin, Metformin and Mebendazole (the latter two being part of the Care Oncology Clinic (COC) protocol) & Chaga mushrooms

~ TLR4 manage via Curcumin, CBD, Berberine and Boswelia

~ TLR9 manage via Curcumin, CBD, Berberine and Boswelia

~ Notch is associated with an alteration of the surrounding fibroblasts and the gene c-MYC both of which make cancer especially aggressive and breast cancer is notch-driven so manage via sulforaphane (from diet include broccoli sprouts), quercetin and luteolin which I obtain naturally from my daily juice of a head of celery with one lemon.

~ Oestrogen which is clearly associated with breast cancer and manage via Indole-3-carbinol which I have been taking as a supplement but I would like to switch back to getting this from my diet alone, melatonin, letrozole (which I am prescribed as part of my standard of care from NHS) and metformin (part of COC protocol)

~ EGFR which I don’t know if my cancer expresses an active EGFR but I am managing via Berberine, EGCG (green tea extract) and Curcumin which I take for other pathways already

~ PPAR gamma which is a receptor in the nucleus that is a master controller of fatty acid storage and glucose metabolism. PPAR gamma is down regulated when WNT signalling is up regulated and manage via Statin (part of COC protocol), Berberine and Honokiol but the root problem is linked to low gut flora (bifidobacteria in particular) and not enough fish oils (omega 3 which I take), vitamins A (get from diet), D (supplement with) and omega 7 (supplement with sea buckthorn oil)

Note: Jane in her course references TLR5 also being linked to breast cancer but I have only just started researching this and how I combat it. She also references Integrins which are protein molecules which ‘grip’ healthy cells in place but faulty p53 signalling allows cancer cell to break away and travel in the bloodstream ~ I need to investigate if there is any more recent research into this as I don’t believe she references it in her course.

Chris Woollams in his book on Oestrogen : The Killer in our Midst as part of a 10 point plan, as part of the diet element (he advocates the Rainbow Diet) suggests the following supplement which I take (many are covered above) of fish oil, vitamin D, indole 3 carbinol, resveratrol, quercetin, medicinal mushroom extract (I take two 8 Mushroom Complex which includes Chaga & Turkey Tail both good breast cancer and also MycoNutri IS complex) and Curcumin

Note: he also references B complex (but I have focused in gut health to resolve this and only take a B12 due to diet) and red clover which I don’t take

[RLN-overcomer in reply to Hidden]

Sister/warrior : Wow! I take all of the supplements, you mentioned except Berberine, and Indole 3 Carbinole. I am 14 years NED, but I am proactive about researching supplements, and off label drugs like Menbendezole. Most of the supplements you mentioned either fight cancer, or stop the inflammatory environment inside the body cancer cells use to grow. Yesssss I do take 34 supplements in a 24 hour day.I was told even with the chemo I would not live to see 2008. Food is medicine, and I do eat a healthy diet for my blood type. I also workout, and limit alcohol consumption to 3-4 glasses of wine a year. Thank you for putting the information on Jane Mc'lelland's , and other Integrated Dr's protocol in this responding post. 👍😇🙏

[Hidden in reply to MyMiracle13]

So following on from the cell signalling

The abnormal cell signals caused by IL & Toll like receptors cause inflammation which triggers STAT3 in the genes and this leads to an alteration of gene expression which leads to excess production of Acetyl-CoA which leads to ‘acetylation’ of the scaffold surrounding the DNA which allows carcinogens and viruses to enter the DNA or to become reactivated. (Note: carcinogens pour the fuel on the fire so also need to eliminate all of these from diet and environment). To control this need to de-activate the inflammatory master controller nuclear factor kappaB (NF-kB)

NF-kB has material effects downstream and plays a role in many elements such as immunosuppression, metastatic and angiogenesis (growth of new blood vessels for cancer to thrive) so correcting this is key. Manage via Omega 3; Axtaxanthin, Apigenin (get from diet particularly coriander which I add to a daily green juice), Quercetin, Berberine, Boswelia; CBD; Curcumin; Atorvostatin; Sulforaphane (get from diet particularly broccoli sprouts) and Honokiol. All except apigenin are already part of the protocol detailed to normalise cell signalling

IL6 triggers JAK2 which leads to the STAT3 and I manage via ellagic acid (get from diet particularly walnuts, raspberries and pomegranate)

STAT3 which I manage via metformin, berberine and honokiol (so nothing new over the supplements or drugs that I am taking as part of the protocol to normalise cell signalling)

Then you move into the elements that you need to consider to starve cancer. cancer will adapt itself to the ‘fuel’ available in the location it develops in, all cancers are glucose driven but in addition as they metastasise as in the case of breast cancer they evolve and can also be driven by fat/glutamine and so need to consider all the key pathways that can fuel cancer.

All cancer cells to some extent use glucose and the primary method by which they derive that glucose is via glycolysis. They are unusual as cells in that they don’t need the presence of oxygen (which is not true in healthy cells in normal conditions) and this process of glycolysis has become known as the Warburg effect. So it is vital to reduce access to glucose and the best ways to do this are via techniques such as intermittent fasting, a low GI diet or a keto diet [Note: not all types of cancers respond well to a ketogenic diet and this includes breast cancer as it is both fat and glucose fuelled]

There are 5 enzymes that are used as part of the glycolytic pathway which is what cancer cells use to break glucose down to pyruvate and lactate which the cancer cells then use :-

G6PDH ~ I have elected to manage this via diet as the main supplement to manage this is fermented wheat germ which is very costly or IV Vit C with doxycycline (which elected not to take from COC protocol due to the impact on gut health)

LDH ~ manage via vitamin D [Note: fermented wheat germ also helps here]

PKM2 ~ manage via quercetin (also part of cell normalising protocol)

PDH ~ manage via melatonin (also part of the cell normalising protocol)

HK-2 ~ manage via metformin (from COC which is also part of the cell normalising protocol)

If you block or limit the glycolysis pathway then the cancer cell will up-regulate the OXPHOS pathway (and its particularly used in breast cancer as I understand it). So the OXPHOS pathway pumps out lactate which is then picked up by the lactate shuttle and used as a source of fuel by the cancer cells

~ OXPHOS manage via metformin, berberine and Sulforaphane (also part of the cell normalising protocol)

~ Lactate Shuttle manage via atorvastatin (also part of the cell normalising protocol) and then additionally take Haritaki to aid the management of this pathway (Note: Haritaki also helps with digestive health and oral health and helps with mouth ulcers which I get as a result of the targeted chemotherapy, palbociblib)

As part of managing glucose pathway also focus on the glucose receptors which are appropriate for breast cancer (all of the supplements/drugs are already part of ones I take as part of cell normalising so there are no additional ones)

~ GLUT 1 manage via atorvastatin, memendazole and quercetin

~ GLUT 3 manage via atorvastatin, memendazole and kaempferol (which I get from diet)

~ GLUT 5 manage via atorvastatin, memendazole and apigenin (which I get from diet)

In addition cancer cells are very dependent on insulin and you definitely don’t want too much or to have issues with insulin sensitivity. Insulin is effectively the key which allows the glucose to enter cells and so need to ensure that you regulate insulin effectively and a low GI diet plays a key role in this

~ Insulin (PK13 + AKT) manage via metformin; berberine, Boswelia, Quercetin, kaempferol and additionally take danshen (which also helps with some of the other pathways that I will come onto and supports immune system)

Pentose Phosphate Pathway is the final element of the glucose related elements. The Pentose Phosphate Pathway comes off the glycolysis pathway and is important for making DNA for daughter cells (which is how cancer grows) and also increasing the density of mitochondria.

~ Pentose Phosphate Pathway manage via D-Mannose (which is also good for bladder health)

Still writing up other notes

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to share these information with me. I read your notes but will have to read them again to fully understand. Do you take Boswelia as a supplement?

[Hidden in reply to MyMiracle13]

I do take that as well ~ in Jeremy Dachs book there is lots of good evidence of how it helps

As I write up the rest of the notes I’ll try and remember to ping them over

[Pbsoup in reply to Hidden]

Have you run all this by your regular oncologist? I am curious about COC and Jane but mine was dismissive—as many are. I worry about any Interactions with Ibrance etc.

[Hidden in reply to Pbsoup]

The COC team are fully aware of all the supplements I take ~ I give them an updated spreadsheet every 3 months so the Oncologist in their team has everything

I’ve gone through it all with a Medical Herbalist who has reviewed each supplement for me and checked interactions as known

My ‘regular’ Oncologist has all the COC protocol and knows I take some supplements ~ I listed a few like vitamin d, omega 3, curcumin but I haven’t given them the full list

I am seeing a Naturopath later this month and she has details of everything along with my SNP’s from my DNA to see how you optimise them supplements for me

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Hidden]

May I know the brands you use for your supplements?

[MyMiracle13]

Sandra I am so sorry you are suffering so much pain. Maybe the radiation can help if painkillers are not working. If you decide to have the radiation, I hope it works for you. Sending you hugs and well wishes❤️ Maria

[Rubyjude]

I had the Astrazeneca vaccine. Both shots in mid cycle of Ibrance (i.e. I didn't stop taking or delay Ibrance) . No effects on my blood work at all.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Rubyjude]

Thanks. I had the Astra Zeneca too. Just the first dose second still in August.

[blms]

4 days.after my vaccine my cancer blew up in my abdomen with ascites fluid. Extensively so! I was.drained after 5,weeks later. Fluid hadn’t come back for 2 months which is good. But I don’t believe in coincidences

[MyMiracle13 in reply to blms]

What vaccine did you have? I’m so sorry about what happened to you.

[blms in reply to MyMiracle13]

I had the J and J when it was first introduced. I really don't think it would have matter which one I took. It was more of what my body did with it that got my immune system so screwed up.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to blms]

Do you know if your WBC was low at the time you had the vaccine?

[blms in reply to MyMiracle13]

No it was good 5.2

[blms in reply to MyMiracle13]

And neutrophils were great

[HollyWeen]

This was posted on another post in this group a few months back. Fauci said if your white blood cell count is low you need to wait until it’s strong again before getting the vaccine. Fast forward to 23:20 on the video to listen to what he says.

youtu.be/qIjL4hMtilM(Not working as expected?)

[MyMiracle13 in reply to HollyWeen]

Thanks! I think that’s what my oncologist is afraid of. Low WBC means it’s harder for the body to fight infection if ever we experience any after the vaccination.

[PJBinMI]

My onc has not said anything about getting the vaccine. My gynecologist was able to get me scheduled for my first Pfizer shot in January and I was so relieved to get it. My husband was able to get scheduled along with me, and his brother, who is staying with us, too. Having our whole household vaccinated made us all feel so much more secure! I had a slightly sore arm after the second shot. They each felt tired after both shots, but not enough for them to stop working on machinery. We live in an area with alot of people who are refusing the vaccine and think it's all a hoax. I still wear a mask when I go to the grocery store or other enclosed spaces. I hope you will get past this vaccine period and have your TMs return to what they were before them. I should probably add that Pfizer is a big employer around here and it seem to be the only vaccine being used in at least 2 or 3 counties near their big plant.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to PJBinMI]

Thanks for replying. It’s great to learn from everyone’s experience with the vaccines. I feel safer having had even just my first dose. I still have to wait till August for my 2nd dose.

[howsthis]

i take ibrance and letrozole. i didn't stop or change anything for the pfizer vaccine. and no side effects, only a sore arm. i did get my mammogram almost 2 months before the vaccine, because it can possibly mess with the mammogram results. and my husband has to wait a few weeks after the vaccine to get his shingles vaccine. otherwise, no problems here.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to howsthis]

Thank you. I guess the vaccine does mess up with the body somehow

[Kellyonekanobe]

I continued my oral Ibrance during both of my covid vaccinations. My white blood count which usually is 2.5 went down to 1.5 after my second covid v.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Kellyonekanobe]

Thanks for the response. I guess my oncologist is being careful and not wanting the WBC to go too low.

[Photo-Bug]

My doc didn't give me any advise but liked that I had my Moderna vaccine on my week off. The CA 27-29 did go up after the 1st dose but went down even farther than the reading from before my 1st jab after the 2nd one.The day after my 2nd jab I had a temp of 103° and ended up in the hospital because they couldn't get my O2 into a normal range. Twenty-four hours later they let me go home. All was normal.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Photo-Bug]

Thanks for replying. I’m having my blood work done in July so I will see if the markers go down.

[AvidBooklover]

I had Moderna both times on my off week. Sloan does not typically check tumor markers. I do know that people are advised not to get tests like mammogram and colonoscopy close to a shot as false positive results can show.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to AvidBooklover]

Thanks for the reply. I guess the vaccine causes some inflammation in the body to stimulate immune response.

[Evaw]

Hi, I am currently on Xeloda and had both my Astrazeneca vaccines on the week off. I am a bit relieved to hear that some people had their markers up after the vaccine. My CA -153 has also increased after I had the first vaccine. I had to have another CT scan as my oncologist thought it was progression. The scan was stable. I am feeling ok so I think it might have been an inflammatory response? Just had my second dose last week so we'll see what happens with bloods.

[MyMiracle13 in reply to Evaw]

Let me know when you have your blood tests if there is any change in the markers. Thanks.

[Cureforever]

Hi Sandra,How log did it take between your vaccine and the bloodwork? It’s a month after I took a booster and my bloodwork is worse than usual. Also I have problems with my heart. Slow heart rate and av 2.1 I had a booster, started experiencing SOB right after, then I had a dental procedure with the anesthesia and antibiotics. After I started feeling much worse. The MO stopped Xeloda. The cardiologist thinks that my heart problems are medication related but he is not sure what has caused it. I also just took a blood test and my liver enzymes were elevated again. Also low hemoglobin, rbc and platelets. Other readings are worse than last month

Best,

Marina

[Cureforever]

Hi Sandra, Thank you so much for your reply and very detailed explanation. It has been a month since the Moderna booster vaccine. The cardiologist did the echo and told me that there is no permanent damage to my heart. But I have some heart block which is called AV 2.1. And low heart rate. It used to be in the 30-40th after a dental surgery. Now it’s a little higher between 50 and 53. I have a heart monitor for three days. I am supposed to return it tomorrow. My hemoglobin is low 8.2. But today is the first day I am feeling better. I walked a few miles without SOB. I walked slow but still. The doctors wanted to do a pacemaker but then decided to observe me more.

Thank you so much again for sharing your knowledge, your kindness and support.

Best,

Marina

[Cureforever]

Thank you so much Sandra for your explanation, encouragement, kindness and such needed support. Best,

Marina

[Cureforever]

Hi Sandra,I hope you are well.

In the morning today my pulse was 52. A few days ago it was in the 30th 40th. Do you think that AV 2.1 block May resolve by itself? I am so scared of a pacemaker. I am in a second week break from Xeloda but my MO doesn’t think that Xeloda caused it. Could it have caused by booster and then the anesthesia and three days antibiotics intake? I am feeling much better not taking into consideration anxiety.

My scan is coming in two weeks. Now this heart condition It’s a lot for my nerves.

Thank you for everything.

Best,

Marina

[Cureforever]

Hi Sandra,Thank you so so much for your very detailed response. I just returned the heart monitor to the doctor’s office. I will see what they will decide. I am off all meds now. My MO told my doctor that she doesn’t think it’s Xeloda related but I know that chemo is not fun.

I am glad you are well. Thanks for your nice words and wishes. I have such a scan anxiety. I hope for the best but unfortunately positivity doesn’t come natural to me. I train myself but…

Have a nice weekend.

Best,

Marina