Kratom

[auldreekie18]

I would like your expert opinion on Kratom is it safe to take what are the pros and cons and views of people like yourselfs who have taken it for pain relief , appreciate your views on this .

[LotteM]

Hi, there have already been a few post and many responses about kratom. Maybe it would be good to locate and read through them. That will give you a good idea. Type kratom in the search bar and restrict to the community of Restless Legs Syndrome.

I like kratom and use it as a backup treatment. It doesn't give me noticeable side effects, but I think if I use it several times a day for consecutive days it gives mild withdrawal effects in the morning.

As always, of you want to take it, start low and go slow. And obtain it from a reliable seller.

Be aware that it is illegal in the UK.

I take it your current regime doesn't work well enough? Ah, looking at your other posts I see that you stopped pramipexole quite recently. I can understand your need for extra pain killing.

[auldreekie18 in reply to LotteM]

If it is illegal in UK Dr wont prescribe it and wary buying anything on line .will tough it out a little while longer ,thanks for information ,God Bless .

[TheDoDahMan in reply to auldreekie18]

Good advice from LotteM. Kratom helped me enormously before I finally was prescribed low-dose methadone. My online kratom supplier was mitragaia.com, but they're in the US - don't know whether they ship to the UK, or whether it would be legally risky for you.

[Wanted-sleep]

I was a user for over two years, taking 5 to 6 grams with water. Most awful to consume. Most reliable. Cost prohibitive. Cannabis before bed.

Cannabis with put me out for 4 ish hours and taking kratom orally to care of the remaining four hours. Consistent and reliable.

15 minutes after taking kratom and completely pain free. My daytime really sucked though.

Now taking Pramipexole morning and at night with pregablin at night.

Problematic periods call for kratom. Augmentation will also call for kratom. Enjoy the journey. Kratom for life. Hope gov regs do not frig it up!

[SueJohnson in reply to Wanted-sleep]

Why are you taking both pramipexole and pregabalin?

[Wanted-sleep in reply to SueJohnson]

Gabapentin messed with my sense of balance and made me nauseous as my fist complement of meds as treatment (near two months).I suggested to the neurologist that my RLS flared up to the point of torturous after having had shingrix a shingles vaccine in came pregablin at night time to add to my two tablets of Pramipexole at morning and two hours before bed time (3 months and counting). Not impressed. Either the barometer spike is aggravating rheumatoid arthritis or it may be RLS augmentation as the sensation of having two anchors below the knees with this odd electrified numbness near a week on. Your take on what I should be aiming for with or without a combo of meds? And thanks for checking in!

[SueJohnson in reply to Wanted-sleep]

How many mg of pregabalin do you take and how many mg of pramipexole are in 1 tablet?

[Wanted-sleep in reply to SueJohnson]

Pregablin 50 mg X 3 at bedtime with pramipexole 0.25 mg X 2And, pramipexole 0.25 mg X 2 in the morning.

[SueJohnson in reply to Wanted-sleep]

You are taking twice the recommended maximum daily dose of pramipexole and a relatively low dose of gabapentin. Are you taking it morning and evening because before you started taking it you had symptoms during the day, or did you start taking it morning and evening because you developed symptoms during the day after you started taking it?

[Wanted-sleep in reply to SueJohnson]

Gabapetin made me nauseous in the daytime. Before meds RLS symptoms aggravated most of the day. I have been an insomniac better part of 20 yrs. Gifted with a RLS diagnosis for 5 plus months now. Neurologist added pregablin after stating Pramipexole on its own was not a sleep aid and sore back added to the sleep distubance.

[SueJohnson in reply to Wanted-sleep]

Since gabapentin made you nauseous in the daytime, you might want to try switching to pregabalin. Although they both usually have the same side effects some people find the side effect that bothered them on one doesn't bother them on the other. Dividing 900 mg of gabapentin yields 150 mg of pregabalin which would be the equivalent dose. You can switch directly. Or you might want to try Horizant which works 24 hours. I don't know about Canada but in the US it is expensive but maybe Canada covers it under their medical program. If not check out horizant.com/savings Their Prescription Savings Card is available for eligible patients and you pay $75/month. But if you do switch to Horizant ask your doctor how to do this. The problem with pramipexole, especially since you are on twice the maximum daily dose, is that 70% of people will suffer from augmentation and since you are already taking so much you may already be suffering from augmentation. The signs of augmentation are when you have to keep increasing your dose to get relief, or when your symptoms occur earlier in the day or when they move to other parts of your body (arms, trunk or face) or when the intensity of your symptoms worsen. Check out the Mayo Clinic Updated Algorithm on RLS which will tell you everything you want to know about RLS and refer your doctor to it at

Https://mayoclinicproceedings.org/a...

[RCHD in reply to Wanted-sleep]

hi so do you feel kratom augments same way as pramipexole? Or ? Any feedback great so I can share with my husband. Currently his kratom is working less. He’s taking 2-3 teaspoons around 3 times a day

[TeddiJ]

DoDahMan told me about Kratom and I ordered from the company he uses. Seems like a great company with quality products. I have no idea if it is really safe, but it totally saved me when I was cut off from methadone.

The powder works quickly for RLS but the relief may not last you very long. It is horrible to take and that adds to the misery, for me. But, I still reach for it because it provides relief in minutes.

It is opioid-like in that you can experience withdrawal symptoms earlier and earlier in the day after taking it nightly for a while. Try not to get addicted to it, if at all possible!

If you do get addicted, that super restless anxiety takes over and compounds your rls horribly. Your miserable nights can then extend into miserable days/evenings.

It is definitely worth having on hand, bottom line! It just might not be the best overall solution on its own.

[Wanted-sleep in reply to TeddiJ]

Nice insight. Agreed. Medicine cabinet item for my RLS. Couple times at best over a month. Cost prohibitive, taste like water through a drain pipe, and works, just works absolutely issue free and without post use problems. Thanks to the ladies burning incense. It’s been under our noses for millennia and many a leaf has been chewed.

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

do you think kratom creates augmentation?

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

I don't think it is augmentation, which means your symptoms also get worse. I do know that one can get dependent on or addicted to it-but not all people do, as evidenced on this forum. Many, but not all, need to take more of it for relief, which was true for me.

I used it to get off methadone (which was used to get off the DA's) and it worked great for that. But I did get antsy during the day and started taking a little bit late afternoon to get through until my nighttime dose. I had to take capsules of it everywhere I went, in case I started "jonesing." I then switched to Suboxone, also an easy switch. Although now I have side effects with that-possibly hormone related.

Also-if you look up withdrawal from opioids-a main symptom is RLS. So, you don't know if it is withdrawal or your own rls!

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

yes this all sounds similar to what my husband has been through. I read in this forum a couple who think kratom creates augmentation. My husband’s symptoms have gotten worse over the years. He’s primarily used opiates and kratom but did use pramipexole for a couple of years, years ago. And hes dependent on it, or on something I agree. He was never addicted to anything until he started using these things. He went to rehab but only ended up getting prescription for opiates when he got out. That was terrible because opiates trigger bipolar … for him. It’s a disaster. Atleast the kratom he’s chill. But I am scared kratom wil also affect his health. Deep sigh… wondering what Dr B will suggest… not sure how dr B feels about kratom.. appreciate all your help!!

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

You're welcome! To me, it seems unlikely that kratom, which is kind of in the opioid family, would cause augmentation and worsening rls. I am no expert but it since it is proven that opioids don't cause augmentation, I would guess that worsening symptoms could be part of withdrawal? I know-I was worried when using kratom but I am also worried about long-term opioids, too. I was so hoping I could find a natural solution, but as you say below, it's a vicious cycle as you have rls when withdrawing from opioids.

Dr. B does not like kratom, of course, though he knows his patients have used it. He told me to "stop taking that crap." But, no need to hide it from him as you want him to have the entire picture.

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

I agree to not hide it from Dr B. We won’t. I will be part of the consult. But of course the problem is, my husband and I live in a place where, no opiods are available ( but to be honest I don’t want him on opiods!! ) no thc is available, no cbd is available, and no encarbil/ Horizant, so it’s either kratom when we are here, or we move…. Big decisions…

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

Gosh, that is super tough. Honestly, if you have already tried Gabapentin (I assume you have but can't remember) the only other option is Dipyridamole, which I don't think you can get there either. Plus it may or may not work; same with Horizant. I told him I absolutely did not want to go back on an opioid and that I wanted a natural solution, though I was struggling on the kratom and wanted off that, too. He had no options for me besides various opioids. And worse, if you can't get any drugs where you live, you truly will have to move so you can get your quality of life back. How is it that you can't even get pot there?! Whaat?! I thought pot was everywhere.

Of course, there is hope for your future but you either must be in a location where you can get drugs or you must somehow find a natural remedy-which is not easy for many of us, especially with that whole withdrawal issue mucking things up. One thing you can do right now is the 2 capsules of iron right before bed-to get that push of iron going every night.

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

we can get neurontin here but not Horizant. I think Horizant works for him as he used it at one point in the states. Yes it’s a very difficult situation.

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

That is a great sign for you two, if it worked! It did not work for me-at least not at the 600 mg dosage. But, I know you still need to be able to get the prescription.

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

and yes, totally know that rls is a symptom of withdrawal!! I told him that long ago… so it’s like vicious cycle. Having said that my husband has had rls since a teenager….. complicated. I think he has a dopamine issue because that’s also related to bipolar, which is only drug induced bipolar. I’ve otherwise never experienced bipolar from him , except after drugs like opiates. Valium,, etc..

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

So sorry you have this extra worry and issue! So complicated. But, Dr. B should know what to do.

[RCHD in reply to TeddiJ]

I’m truly praying he’s a nice and caring guy 🙏🏾

[TeddiJ in reply to RCHD]

He certainly is.