Kratom stop working?

[Camry2020]

Been on every script for over 20 yrs. all stopped working . Now take kratom which has been godsend, but disgusting plus I’m so exhausted I’ve had a car accident and walked into a door. Now need more kratom. Any suggestions? You are the best help there is. Thank you!

[involuntarydancer]

I too find Kratom a life-saver. Efficacy of Kratom does diminish and people find their dose creeping up. Some people suggest alternating different strains helps. The only other option is to take a break from it. I’m not sure how long would be required - maybe 2 weeks. Could you take an opioid or something instead for a while to allow your system a break?

I find my daytime drowsiness is less pronounced with Kratom than any other drug treatment apart from pramipexole so don’t know what to say about yours. It’s very frightening and awkward when the drugs impact on your ability to perform ‘normal’ day time activities. I don’t want to be alarmist but it should be borne in mind that if a person is found to have mind-altering drugs in their system (even legal/prescription ones) while driving they could be charged with and convicted of dangerous driving. It’s something we all need to bear in mind - those on pregabalin/gabapentin, opioids and legal or illegal cannabis as well as anyone taking Kratom

I’m not recommending this - just putting my own experience out there - but two years ago I added back in a small dose of a dopamine agonist (pramipexole) to my regime and my daytime function improved a lot. I had previously augmented after 10 years on an ever increasing dose of pramipexole and I discontinued it for two years. Now I keep the dose low and I take occasional breaks and keep my serum ferritin high. It has worked well so far though I’m not sanguine about the potential long term impact of any of these drugs

[involuntarydancer in reply to involuntarydancer]

Another drug that helped my daytime function a lot was dipyridamole. If it is not counter-indicated for you (it is a blood thinner), it may be worth trying. There is a limited study that found it had a positive benefit on symptoms of rls sufferers (it works on the adenosine receptors) but in fairness the study participants had not had previous pharmaceutical treatment.

[Jumpey]

I'm sorry you are so tired and empathise.I think you have become tolerant of Kratom.I couldn't take it because it caused oesophagal pain .So I can't help you with that directly. However the same happens to me with Tramadol. After about a year it stops working. So I take a drug holiday for a month and it kicks back in again. You could try the same.Good luck and take care.x

[TheDoDahMan]

Hi, Camry,

When RLS first began to keep me awake, I tried every danged remedy from soap on a rope, to grounded bedsheets; from Prami to Neupro to St. John's Wort. From weighted bedspreads to marijuana. Then I found Kratom. Holy Queen of the Nile--the damned stuff worked!

I started off using 4 grams per day and slept like a baby. After a while, I had to up the dose to achieve the same effect. I learned to mix the kratom powder with milk and Carnation Instant Breakfast powder so that my ever-increasing doses were actually quite palatable. Finally, I was taking 4 doses per day of 8 grams each, for a total of 32 grams. At that point, (after a year or so), I had to admit that it would be untenable for me to continue my "strategy" of increasing consumption. Believe it or not, I never experienced any untoward side effects, even at these doses.

My ultimate savior was a smart and brave doctor, Mark Buchfuhrer, who prescribed me low-dose methadone (2 x 5 mg per day). Immediately, my sleeping problems were over and I had my life back. That was two years ago. Apparently, at this low dose, a build-up of tolerance does not occur. I haven't felt a need to increase this dose, and talked to another RLS patient in his office who said the same, having been on the same regime for 10 years.

[Camry2020 in reply to TheDoDahMan]

Thank you to DoDahMan!! It’s still so miraculous to me that you all know what I’m talking about. Hasn’t happened me medically in almost 20 years. The kratom is still working but does keep me awake. I have pancreatitis though and worry the kratom will exacerbate it. Also someone kindly replied to my plea and cautioned about driving with kratom in my system. It never dawned on me it might be mood altering, relaxing or have some other mood altering properties......doesn’t seem to for me (unfortunately.) I’m reluctant to stop as I’ve been on it for about 6 mos. with no augmentation which has occurred with about six other substances. It’s all a balancing game or trade off. What are we willing to suffer in order to rid ourselves of the jitters, buzzing, trembling, insomnia and exhaustion? Pretty much it seems!

Thank you all!

[TheDoDahMan in reply to Camry2020]

Hi again, Camry,

I've never heard that kratom would affect pancreatitis one way or the other. Had you heard something different? And kratom is often used to taper off from harder drugs, such as opiates (in that kratom is related to the coffee family, not the poppy family), so I don't think you should be reluctant to stop, even if only to see what it would be like.

By the way, do you mind me asking how many grams per day you are ingesting, after being on it for about 6 months?

From all I've read and heard, this is a very forgiving "drug", if a person is not abusing it. It's been used in Southeast Asia for thousands of years with an excellent safety record.

And kratom definitely does NOT lead to augmentation, because it is not at all related to the dopamine agonists.

Best of luck!

[Reb0013 in reply to Camry2020]

Hi Camry, I had a lot of success with Hirsuta. Have never tried Kratom simply because I am afraid of the possibility of addiction. Supposedly Hirsuta does not have the same addiction qualities but it does help me sleep and does help and all but eliminate the creepy crawly, got to get up, twitching sensations. So far.... keeping my fingers crossed.

[BaddaBing in reply to TheDoDahMan]

I just found out about Dr. Buchfuhrer from an RLS support group on facebook. I live in AZ and am trying to get my VA doctor to send a referral. All of the medications have stopped working. I was on Kratom for 5 years and then out of no where it quit working. I am on/off suicidal. The VA pain clinic is treating me for opiate use disorder because I was on Kratom and are pretty much refusing to focus on the RLS. I went to Barrows Neurological in Phoenix and the movement specialist told me about methadone but then the VA wont prescribe it. I'm in hell right now and praying to God that this doctor in CA can help me somehow. I have a wife and two kids but I seriously don't know how long I can hang on right now.

[TheDoDahMan in reply to BaddaBing]

Hi, BaddaBing,

I was in a similar situation to yours, in that my local doctor here in NV refused to prescribe me methadone because it would be "off label" as a treatment for RLS. Since she wouldn't refer me to Dr. B, I just called his office in Downey, CA, and made an appointment myself. For some reason, his office said that my Medicare would not cover the cost, so I've been paying out-of-pocket (somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$400 per year), but after a few trials of the common dopamine agonists, which failed to help, Dr. B prescribed low-dose (5mg, twice daily) methadone and I now sleep 8-9 hours a day. I had to switch pharmacies, as Walmart refused to fill the prescription - no questions asked.

May I ask how many grams of kratom per day were you taking when it quit working?

Won't Barrows Neurological prescribe methadone for you? Or are they not allowed to?

It's pitiful how difficult it is in this country to access opioid medicines, even when it's of the low-dose variety.

Let us know how things work out for you.

[BaddaBing in reply to TheDoDahMan]

Thanks for your response. After seeing your post I also had multiple people in an RLS support group recommend I see Dr. B. I called and scheduled an appointment and will be seen in November! I’m hopeful now. The VA called barrows and told them I have an opiate use disorder and so barrows now will not prescribe the methadone even though she originally wrote a letter to my VA doctors telling them to put me on it. The VA psychiatrist refuses to listen and just keeps telling everyone I’m an opiate addict. It’s absolutely insane what I’m dealing with. I was taking 2 tablespoons every 4-6 hours at the end. In the beginning it was only 1x-2x/day.

[TheDoDahMan in reply to BaddaBing]

Actually, kratom is technically not even an opioid; it's related to plants in the coffee family. But I hear that the VA is noted for their intransigence. You say, "It’s absolutely insane what I’m dealing with.": welcome to the club, brother.

[Hidden]

I have recently started taking Kratom and it has ended my need to get up and walk during the night. I take about 6 g before bedtime. I'm also taking 275g of Pregabalin. My question is, can Kratom replace my need for Pregabalin or should I continue taking the 2 together.

[LotteM in reply to Hidden]

Hi Boru, good news! It can, but you'll have to try to find out whether it works for you. In any case, if you want to try and stop the pregabalin, don't do that suddenly. Reduce slowly and see how your body reacts. Also, kratom loses effectiveness for many people sooner or later. Maybe you want to rotate between the kratom and pregabalin, although pregabalin requires adjustments and time (2-4 weeks) to work and find the effective doses. Another option is to continue combining the two. And find the lowest effective dose for both. Least aide effects.

[Wanted-sleep in reply to Hidden]

I am doing very well on Kratom on its own.Before bedtime consumption and 10 minutes to kick in. So thankful for kratom.