Stress

[Uglow]

I don’t understand why stress affects pmr! How can your emotions make pmr so much harder is their a chemical reason. X

[Bedwell]

Hope we can meet soon! Do you belong to the WGC group?

[Uglow in reply to Bedwell]

Hi no I don’t didn’t know there was one.

[cycli]

Yes Uglow. It doesn't take much to shift the balance. If you think how PMR turns your body's defence mechanism against itself it doesn't require much imagination to see that it can affect the way your brain is wired. Since our brains have some control over the chemical balance of our bodies it can affect mood, feeling suicidal, feeling euphoric, speeding or slowing the thought process...need I go on. Your eyes see only what your brain interprets from the nerve inputs, likewise pain or tickles from nerve input,what you hear, taste, smell ,touch, Everything we experience is a construct of the way our brain interprets signals our body feeds to it. There are studies showing a correlation between mood swings and the chemical balance which then triggers a change and therefore an alternate state. Simply put, positive thoughts are better for you than negative ones, so stress that cannot be resolved creates fertile ground for radically shifting the balance which in extreme circumstamces leads to autoimmune diseases.

[Maggieart in reply to cycli]

So well said.

[fmkkm]

Hi,Funny, I was just reading today about the link between stress and clogged arteries. It talks about immune cells too.

science.org/content/article...

[SnazzyD]

To put it simpler than it is, stress of any sort triggers your fight or flight reaction. In order for you to deal with whatever it is your body’s systems are chemically triggered to respond in certain ways to help you. This is ok if the stress then goes away because everything goes back to normal. If it doesn’t or your body is already a bit triggered the process doesn’t switch off and sometimes certain bits in the bloodstream start to attack your cells instead. Chemically it’s really complicated. It is known that emotions effect how you sense pain but also past trauma or upset that sits in the background can also keep triggering your body’s attack mode. This is because those parts of your brain don’t know the difference between an infection or being under attack still and the memories of what hurt you that are packed away but still niggling.

[pmr_nikola]

Our body under stress releases (needs) cortisol. PMR caused inflammation needs additional cortisol to be controlled ( thus we take prednisone ). You can see that concurrency of stress and PMR may ( will ) cause shortage of cortisol resulting in either increased inflammation and/or reduced ability to handle stress. I am sure that processes are far more complicated, but that's the simple answer to your question.

[PMRCanada in reply to pmr_nikola]

Well said. I try to explain to others around me why I attempt to “protect my peace” and the fallout from stress.

Of the 6-7 times I’ve flared in the last 4 years, once was due to the stress of an emotionally charged facilitated conversation with a family member I was estranged from for 20 years. Although the outcome was good, the process generated stress and anxiety. Of note. I lived with workplace PTSD for 8 years prior to developing PMR, and being constantly in a state of high alert (calling for cortisol), took its toll.

[Maggieart in reply to PMRCanada]

yes

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Yes - stress of all sorts can have an influence on the immune system. It can make us more likley to get infections but it can also affect an already deranged immune system in an autoimmune condition. One of the many effects is to increase the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines - the substances that increase the inflammation in the body including the one that is implicated in PMR and to a great extent in GCA (it is known there are at least a couple of others in GCA, not known about PMR). It is a range of effects - in healthy people, who are not on steroids, stress increases cortisol production which it probably doesn't do for us but the other effects which are very complicated can still occur.

This is good but quite complicated language in places - but a few paragraphs are pretty clear:

news-medical.net/health/How...

[cycli]

great little thread here people. So Uglow, now you have got to the need for pred. to control the inflammation in the blood whilst you try and adjust to the disease you have contracted. You now know what it is and what it does. You still don't know why it chose you and the medics still don't really know why you have it You have many symptoms which increase or diminish depending on your everyday state which is influenced by your current and previous activities. Pred won't cure the disease, only reduce the inflammatory markers waiting for your own body to get back to how it was before the disease, remission. Unfortunately the body will still be reeling from the different effects of the drugs you have been taking and you will have to work to clear these over time. That's the journey we are all on and some more than others not always sure we will get there but always hopeful. For my part I now see this as another project to understand my body better and discover the best ways to maximise what I can achieve whilst working towards reduction of drug inputs and eventual remission It is an interesting challenge. Just another thing to get over in order to get back to some semblance of what was. If that isn't possible, this process of necessity takes you to a new place where you will have adjusted to a different reality and maybe present you with opportunities you never conceived before. Have fun because we truly never know what lies around the next bend.

[anutycrixp]

Your body and brain are all one entity,all connected up and working right down to atoms and sub-atomic level.Your thoughts and emotions do not come from some vague place "out there ",you are making them mostly from your brain and gut. An astonishing wonder!

[Bedwell]

I came across a post with all local pmr meet-ups.. so emailed the WGC one but have had no reply! We need all the help we can get! It’s such a debilitating condition isn’t it? I’m dizzy and blearyeyed most of the day! Been at 10 for a while as homeopath asked me to delay lessening for a few weeks to let his remedies work! But hope to go to 9.5 nextxeeek. Some things improved with homeopathy., sleeping s bit better inspite of waking with inflamed knees and feet. ! Stand in cold water for 5 mins!!!

Anyway would like to meet up if you feel

Like it!

[Uglow in reply to Bedwell]

I would really like to met just getting round to it. Stand in cold water how strange I thought last night not sure why tho

[HeronNS in reply to Uglow]

Here's some info about cold water therapy. I confess all I can manage is to splash cold water on my face after washing!

healthline.com/health/cold-...

[cycli in reply to Bedwell]

If you are trying to get rid of "inflammation" do you mean swelling from fluids? then standing up doesn't work, cold or hot water You need to elevate the legs above the chest level to assist fluid movement. Takes about an hour or two. Just put on some nice music and have a nap or do my no.3 exercise which will do it quicker. I'm not really a fan of homeopathy which really is mind over matter. There is no real substance in it, but if you feel there is thenit works on themind andputs you in a positive frame. I wouldn't reduce or increase my medications based on the advice of a homeopath. just my opinion.

[Bedwell in reply to cycli]

I have used homeopathy all my life.. alongside GP when necessary. My children had hardly any conventional medicine and have brought their children up likewise. !!! You have your opinion! Fair enough!

[Bedwell in reply to cycli]

In the middle of the night?!?!?I just leave some water in the bath which is then cold by about 3 or 4 when I wake sometimes with inflamed feet and knees. Stand in it for a few minutes.. go back to sleep !!

[cycli in reply to Bedwell]

ok. Bedwell. Let's leave homeopathy out of this discussion. I'll just talk physiology. Firstly I am not a trained medic so I offer no medical opinion. It seems you are talking about swollen legs from excess fluid. Correct me if i am wrong. I don't know the extent of your swelling or whether it is painful nor how long you have had this or why you have it. However, whatever its cause whether from your condition or the medications required to treat this you have excess fluid build up. I'm sure many on this forum share to a greater or lesser extent this state. It is there because your lymph system cannot clear all of it. I too have swelling which gets worse as the day progresses. Standing, working, sitting all exacerbate this. It probably has something to do with the hearts ability to pump hard enough to assist the lymph system and pred. has an effect on the hearts function as does PMR and GCA to pump blood around the body. If it deprives muscle of oxygen that can't be good for proper muscle function so it is all interconnected. So at periods during the day it is sensible to lie down and elevate your legs to assist the blood circulation not to have to pump up hill so to speak. Given enough time one can clear a large amount of excess fluid through elevation. You have to help however by getting the legs higher than your torso. It is just simple physics and helps the systems to move fluid more easily. I have a hot bath most nights and elevate the legs whilst rotating ankles and feet. I can see the swelling reduce but it does take time. In the morning after rest the legs are near normal and ready to go through the whole rigmarole again. I won't let my legs deteriorate too far whilst I try for a better balance and find out why it is happening. As to cold/hot. I am a serious cyclist and there has been much talk of ice baths to alleviate muscle stress and tension after strenuous exercise. Tests with hot and ice have shown no intrinsic benefit with cold but people still swear by it. I suppose it depends on how much of a masochist you wish to be. Personally I prefer hot to ice cold.

[singingloud]

When mom elderly mom would take off in her car a year ago, my stress would rise especially when she would get lost on the hour drive to my brother’s home. I would say, Mom your killing me!I wonder how many of us would be called over achievers too?!? Now we are trying to learn to pace ourselves.

[Maggieart in reply to singingloud]

yes

[Booklist]

I'm sure stress caused my pmr. I had been looking after a dear friend with Alzheimer's for about 2 years. This included phone cals during the night and trying to calm my friend when she was terrified. Finally there was a crisis. Suddenly the stress disappeared, and then pmr struck. 5 months later I'm on 11 mg pred and doing OK. Best wishes to you.

[Uglow in reply to Booklist]

I do believe it caused mine xxx

[Maggieart in reply to Uglow]

yes

[Sandradsn]

I'm absolutely convinced stress caused my pmr.😳

[Maggieart in reply to Sandradsn]

yes

[winfong]

Exacerbating the problem is a long history of Western medicine and thought being rather un-holistic (is that even a word?) and seeing a sharp division between body and mind/emotions. It's gotten us pretty far in treating medicine as a science (no more humors, leeches and phrenology), but can also limit us in spots. I believe we're still trying to overcome that, and still have a ways to go.

Personally, I feel stress can cause anything short of a broken bone or a cut or other totally physical instance like that. I think, also, one of the reasons I get along so well with my endo (and less so with my rheumy) is that she really gets the holistic part. Not too surprisingly perhaps, she's also Indian.

[cycli in reply to winfong]

We don't really know that much about the full potential of the brain. We have no idea how the memory stores so much. There's no data cube we can extract with all our stored memories, senses, images etc. As to what makes us who we are that's even more metaphysical. It is clear that the way we think affects our chemical balance. Mood swings, euphoria to depression all are factored by chemical balance. When we were told as kids to snap out of it it's all in the mind, people were more often than not right. Now we know some of that. The problem lies with being in that state of imbalance because it now has a physical reality and affects you materially.. In the same way you cannot instantly recover from a broken bone you can't just snap out of a depression. You need help from medication and accurate diagnosis to tailor it precisely. I'm certain that it is and will more increasingly become possible to affect the natural ability of the body to adjust the chemical balance to correct certain conditions, but we don't understand enough at present so we need drugs to assist. We have on many occasions discussed stress and its consequences. It is pretty much agreed that it is a determinant which triggers a shift in how the body reacts and adjusts certain chemical triggers. The problem seems to me that there is inadequate attention to diagnosis and monitoring of dosage and drug proscriptions which lead to side effects and the need to reduce. This causes further problems which need to be managed and the knock-on effects have consequences of their own. Many of the issues we face and discuss here are of a secondary nature emanating from our condition and medication getting confused with the genuine symptoms. It is naturally confusing and very varied.

[Maggieart]

One of the best threads so far. I always thought "stress" was an overused word. Now I am really getting the connection between the things I have been through and the health issues that have been the result. Thanks to all of you for your authenticity.