Post Covid-19 Vaccinations Test Results

[Boss302Fan]

Well, this is probably almost useless. Was taking 4.5mg/d Pred at the time of the 2 Moderna shots. The second was on 3/26. I know my antibody titer against the viral protein(s) selected for the vaccine exceeded the assay lower limit of detection, but not a quantitative titer. Also know I wasn’t exposed to Sars-cov-2.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

What's useless?

[Boss302Fan in reply to PMRpro]

I said “almost” useless. All I know is I have some response but no clue as to the magnitude. Is it suppressed or a significant response?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Boss302Fan]

It was measurable - and at a guess it will grow. Some response is infinitely better than no response and they don't really know how much you need for it to be enough anyway - ongoing research.I'm assuming I have no response - safer that way - and I have survived unscathed this far

[HeronNS in reply to PMRpro]

Doesn't it say if you don't have antibodies your body probably mounted an immune response. And if you do have antibodies you either had the disease or your body mounted an immune response. That seems pretty useless to me.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

I think it is analysing the two different results and what they may mean. But it is early days - need a LOT or results and later history to work out what is what. And that has been the case all along really. No-one knows - this is all virgin territory. And really very exciting I think

[Boss302Fan in reply to HeronNS]

They are two distinct assays looking at different viral proteins. The test that came back positive was looking for antibodies against the proteins the Vaccine mRNA was coding for.

The other test was looking for antibodies expected if responding to the viral proteins initiated from immune response to the whole live virus.

I’m extremely rusty, it’s been over 40 years since I worked in an Immunology lab. But look at this way, there are an envelope of viral proteins on the surface of the virus, plus the spike proteins for the corona virus. In creating a vaccine you can choose from different sequences that are presented on the virus surface to trigger an immune response. The trick is for the primary response to trigger Memory B cells that retain the memory for the secondary response.

In my case I’ve not had Covid-19, and my body did mount an immune response to the proteins produced from the mRNA.

[HeronNS]

I've signed up for a study here, but the kit hasn't arrived - was told it would be here within days, about six weeks ago - and after reading about similar studies elsewhere I think I shall not bother to participate if and when the kit arrives. What are they learning if you are told you probably have an immune response if you don't have antibodies, and if you do have antibodies? What am I missing here?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

Because this is how ALL early research starts - you have to have this sort of information so that at a later stage they can look back and understand it in the light of later findings.

[123mossie in reply to HeronNS]

It’s not black & white unfortunately & in research all results are useful. Do take part, your contribution does matter.

[HeronNS in reply to 123mossie]

I'm rather hoping the kit never arrives - I'm sure I won't be able top stab my finger!

[123mossie in reply to HeronNS]

😀

[Boss302Fan in reply to HeronNS]

😂 You don’t stab the top of your finger. Actually you use a spring actuated lance and you press it firmly against the side of a ring finger about midway between the upper finger joint and the tip of the finger and it releases the lance. Dispose of first drop of blood, and fill each of five circles on the card. Let it dry for 2 hours, pack it up and ship. Nothing to it.

[HeronNS in reply to Boss302Fan]

I hope you're right. It's not something I'm often subjected to, and the last time blood was drawn that way was several years ago for my private Vitamin D test and I don't think I watched her do it. Before that was long ago when I was a blood donor before I'd visited the UK too many times and was banned from donating blood in Canada any more, and this jab with a sharp object is the kind of stab I remember, when they take (or used to) a drop or two of blood to make sure it sinks in some sort of liquid before letting you donate at that time.

[herdysheep in reply to HeronNS]

Stabbing the finger was remarkably easy - it's a little popper type thing and I speak as a total wimp. I think these studies are important. You have to start somewhere.

[HeronNS in reply to herdysheep]

Now I'm quite interested again. However, I've checked e-mail communications and apparently my kit was mailed out on April 23, so something is wrong. I live in the community where the study is based so there shouldn't be such a long delay in delivery. What will be will be!

[Boss302Fan in reply to HeronNS]

If bottom and top tests were negative I was neither exposed to COVID-19 nor was the vaccine effective.

Bottom Positive, Top Negative not exposed to COVID-19, vaccine effective in eliciting a response.

Bottom and Top Positive was exposed to COVID-19, and had antibodies and the positive response to the bottom test may reflect a contributing response to those proteins also present on the whole virus and thus don’t know how much antibodies due to vaccine vs due to having had Covid-19.

[Peptink in reply to HeronNS]

I was picked to be a part of a Covid study. They sent me a kit back in November and then another was a couple of months ago. I had to give a few drops of blood each time. Both tests were negative and I had no antibodies. I made a $100 for my efforts. Maybe that’s what’s missing! 💵 😂

[Boss302Fan in reply to Peptink]

Yep, you got $100 more than I did!

[Rache]

I’ve read this a few times and it still doesn’t make sense to me 🤪

[HeronNS in reply to Rache]

I just mooched over and watched the PMR part of this YouTube video, which was interesting. But in light of the comments on test result here, I personally am no further ahead in knowing what any of this means in the real world- except it seems likely my increase in pred dosage a couple of days after first Pfizer likely made very little if any difference to my immune response. (I've had to stay at an elevated dose since then, 5 weeks now.) My behaviour hasn't altered, and likely will not until most of the population is fully vaccinated.

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

If all you watched was the PMR part you missed a quite interesting discussion which is pretty relevant

[HeronNS in reply to PMRpro]

I intend to later. Have been delaying my daily walk and am just about to head out to enjoy sunshine. 🌞

[readingbooks in reply to PMRpro]

You got there first, PMRPro, ( of course !) but , yes, watch the whole video not just the part about PMR. The first presentation sets the scene ,explains terms used, answers questions and informs the rest. I found the whole thing clear, professional and very helpful.

[Hildalew in reply to Rache]

Being a bit of a nerd about words, I'm not going to worry about understanding Boss302Fan's post. I'm just delighted to have learned a new word from it. - 'titer' ('titre' in UK English). Having found out what it means, I'm still trying to find where it comes from. I have only found this, so far. The word "titration" descends from the French word tiltre (1543), meaning the proportion of gold or silver in coins or in works of gold or silver; i.e., a measure of fineness or purity. Tiltre became titre, which thus came to mean the "fineness of alloyed gold", and then the "concentration of a substance in a given sample".

I want to know how it got into French. And my insane curiosity will force me to look up the the origins of the verb 'to tilt'

[Rache in reply to Hildalew]

Thanks for that explanation - interesting! I only knew the word ‘titre’ in French to mean title.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hildalew]

"The word "titration" comes from the Latin "titalus," meaning inscription or

title. The French word, titre, also comes from this origin, meaning rank is a common

laboratory method of quantitative/chemical analysis ..."

Probably a new word invented by chemists ...

[Hildalew in reply to PMRpro]

I will look again then. because, to be honest, I prefer the explanation I found to the one you have quoted. In this context the English 'titre' (titer in American English) appears to me to have nothing to do with the French 'title' or 'rank' and, if I understand it correctly, quite a lot to do with the quantity or proportion of something within a another medium - or as 'my' explanation says, 'the concentration of a substance in a given sample". BUT if, as your quote says - 'rank is a common laboratory method of quantitative/chemical analysis....'. I will probably have to revise my position.😀

[Boss302Fan in reply to Hildalew]

“… the quantity or proportion of something within a another medium - or as 'my' explanation says, 'the concentration of a substance in a given sample"

Yes!

In the below they show results from RIA which stands for Radioimmunoassay that uses isotopes as markers, mainly replaced by enzyme assays. Doesn’t matter, explanation applies.

unthsc.edu/students/wp-cont...

[Hildalew in reply to Boss302Fan]

I'm afraid I was reduced to near-hysteria (laughter that is) trying to understand the document you gave the link for. To avoid boring others who aren't in the least' interested in my search for understanding, I have sent a message to your 'profile'. Oh Dammit, my message seems to have disappeared - there's only a PS there.

[Boss302Fan in reply to Hildalew]

😂I got them. Also, don’t let what are used as a marker freak you out. A marker is just a means to be able to measure what’s happening. So if use a radioactive isotope just use a dosimeter to measure the energy which just shows up on the display as counts. With an enzyme based assay similar process but the enzyme process creates a fluorescence that can be optically quantified. It’s like measuring pH in your swimming pool, the reaction based on pH produces a color you can compare to a chart.🤷🏼‍♂️

[Boss302Fan]

I was asked to voluntary participate in the antibody test study. Got a text message and accepted. It’s through Johns Hopkins and/or University of Maryland I believe.

I took Moderna also. I don’t know but I’m guessing the viral proteins being coded for between Pfizer and Moderna are different and thus the comparison assays would be using the same test for checking for immune response to Covid-19 but the tests for antibody response to the vaccine coded proteins then would have to be different.

Trust me when I tell you the immunological response is extremely (imo) complex. I had a heck of time just understanding the aspect we were looking into. I have a lot of respect for those with doctorates in immunology, it’s why I have no respect for lay persons to attempt to second guess them.

It’s one those subjects the more you begin to learn and begin to understand the more you realize you’re scratching the surface and don’t have a clue!

[HeronNS in reply to Boss302Fan]

I think we are all beginning to know and look on many of our specialists in immunology as family friends, as they appear on national tv network and radio almost daily to answer questions. Their faces are becoming more familiar than those of my neighbours and even local family as we only meet masked these days. One (maybe two) were even celebrity visitors to a special overnight vaccine clinic run in a region with terrible case count!

[PMRCanada]

I am very interested to find out "where I stand" antibody wise, after I get my second vaccination (Aug. 24th). I would hope/assume that if I were to get results back it would indicate:

a) I am positive for antibodies (because I have tested positive for covid)

and (hopefully)

b) I am positive for antibodies (due to getting both doses of the Moderna vaccine)

From watching the video I was surprised to learn that once doctor said that if someone has had covid, and the vaccinations, that their antibodies would not be as high?? Was thinking it would be the opposite, that my "system" would be full of antibodies of both kinds given I've both had covid and the vaccine. However, having covid 19 while getting the vaccine is not a good thing in that it results in a lesser response of creation of antibodies from the vaccine because my immune system is already "busy" creating the other antibodies (if that makes sense). I'd welcome any comments/insight on my specific situation.

I've also read on here some folks getting a measurable/quantatitive % of antibodies in the blood....wondering where you can get such a test?

[Boss302Fan]

Can’t help you unfortunately. I lack the depth of knowledge necessary but what you say makes sense. The more your body is trying to fight off I’m guessing could compromise fighting off other antigens.