Hi All, I recently posted about a stomach problem I was having, tried to contact my GP but there is still a 2 week waiting list to speak to him , I tried a few over the counter meds which helped , and thanks for all the advice on that . So after sone more research around the net I have been looking into fasting (I did 24 hours and felt good) , as I and most of us take pred it difficult to fast beyond 24 hours as we are supposed to take pred with food even when it’s gastro resistant . I read that a 72 hour fast can virtually replace the immune system cells and the body going into preservation mode eats up the damaged cells first. When you start eating again your stem cells mass produce healthy immune cells theoretically repairing any problematic ones , all sounds to easy , but they have found people on chemo if they fast for 3 days prior to having a treatment they have significantly less after effects due to this reason , much less harm to their body in general . I was wondering if I did a 3 day fast with water of course ,Which means I would only have 2 days without food in the morning with my meds and they are gastro resistant, would get away without upsetting the stomach to much just as a one off . I’m intrigued to know how such a long fast can help the body repair . My friend who had AS and was on biologics for a number of years is in complete remission and he claims it was mostly down to his fasting and may I add mind set .any thoughts on the subject, I am thinking of giving it a go .
Recent post upset stomach , does fasting help ? A... - PMRGCAuk
Recent post upset stomach , does fasting help ? And can it actually cure immune conditions .
Hi Gazz. First of all, if fasting 'cured' autoimmune disease there would be no need for this forum. AS as in ankylosing spondylitis? Aortic stenosis?? Very different from PMR.You don't say what is your stomach issue and to know that may help people to advise.🤔
Hi, sorry I should have been clearer about the stomach issue, I wrote post on here last week about my stomach issues wasn’t sure if it was the pred or other meds I was taking as my pred is gastro resistant I didn’t think it was that but after a little research and listening to more Experienced people it could have been any of my meds, that appears to have calmed down now , I take a turmeric supplement , I am still taking it but reduced by 2 thirds seems to have done the job , also adding more ginger to my diet . Also should have been more specific meant my friend suffered with Ankolosin spondylitis, the change in him is remarkable , he couldn’t walk or dress himself and he hasn’t a single pain , I agreed that fasting wasn’t a miracle cure but he felt it put his mind in the right place to heal. I think at the end of the day your brain is running the show, so if you get that in the right place who knows what is possible . 👍
No apologies needed.It's great that your friend has had so much success with fasting. AS is a complex condition. I do agree that often we feel instinctively what is best for our individual circumstances. PMR is also complicated and calls for the right kind of nutrition based very largely on an anti- inflammatory foodstuffs and liquids: what to eat and what to avoid. Ginger and turmeric are excellent as you say. Best wishes, M.
Thanks for the reply , I also have Sapho syndrome and Sjogrins on top of PMR , I sometimes wonder if they have got it right , considering a second opinion from a private Rhuemy , I saw Dr Hughes in Surrey a couple of years back but at the time I was classic PMR , things have changed a lot since then .
Sadly, if it were that easy there would be many cured people walking about after fasting has been forced by ops, illness or investigations. Anyway, I am intrigued. Which immune cells are they talking about? There are many many parts to the immune system so if you can find the sources that would be great.
Having had chemo I’m not sure how having the “immune cells” replaced will help because the problem with chemo is that it kills off fast dividing cells including parts of the immune system, so any good work is undone. That’s the problem with chemo; one has to replace faster than the body is capable. I have heard about starving tumours but I think that is a different idea about the blood supply to them.
The other thing is that I have a condition whereby my body’s Neutrophils die off en masse every three weeks. It takes a week from new ones being made to the mature cells to be available to fight infection. Interestingly this process causes a spike in the inflammatory mediator Interleukin6 so it makes matters worse.
It’s great that your friend has remission, good on them, but for a proper endorsement I’d like to see what the result would have been without the biologic, for example Tocilizumab, a very powerful agent against IL6.
I was surfing the net as we do when I found the info about fasting , I will try and dig out the article and post it . My friend took it on him self to stop the biologics , he had been on them a long time and was already self medicating to a certain degree . He said I just decided not to fight the disease just live with it , kind of accepting things and somehow he just got better , great success story i hope for his sake he stays in remission .👍
I found some info on the fasting I referred to .
Fasting for as little as three days can regenerate the entire immune system, even in the elderly, scientists have found in a breakthrough described as "remarkable".
Although fasting diets have been criticised by nutritionists for being unhealthy, new research suggests starving the body kick-starts stem cells into producing new white blood cells, which fight off infection.
Scientists at the University of Southern California say the discovery could be particularly beneficial for people suffering from damaged immune systems, such as cancer patients on chemotherapy.
It could also help the elderly whose immune system becomes less effective as they age, making it harder for them to fight off even common diseases.
The researchers say fasting "flips a regenerative switch" which prompts stem cells to create brand new white blood cells, essentially regenerating the entire immune system.
"It gives the 'OK' for stem cells to go ahead and begin proliferating and rebuild the entire system," said Prof Valter Longo, Professor of Gerontology and the Biological Sciences at the University of California.
"And the good news is that the body got rid of the parts of the system that might be damaged or old, the inefficient parts, during the fasting.
“Now, if you start with a system heavily damaged by chemotherapy or ageing, fasting cycles can generate, literally, a new immune system."
Prolonged fasting forces the body to use stores of glucose and fat but also breaks down a significant portion of white blood cells.
During each cycle of fasting, this depletion of white blood cells induces changes that trigger stem cell-based regeneration of new immune system cells.
In trials humans were asked to regularly fast for between two and four days over a six-month period.
Scientists found that prolonged fasting also reduced the enzyme PKA, which is linked to ageing and a hormone which increases cancer risk and tumour growth.
"We could not predict that prolonged fasting would have such a remarkable effect in promoting stem cell-based regeneration of the hematopoietic system," added Prof Longo.
"When you starve, the system tries to save energy, and one of the things it can do to save energy is to recycle a lot of the immune cells that are not needed, especially those that may be damaged," Dr Longo said.
"What we started noticing in both our human work and animal work is that the white blood cell count goes down with prolonged fasting. Then when you re-feed, the blood cells come back. So we started thinking, well, where does it come from?"
Fasting for 72 hours also protected cancer patients against the toxic impact of chemotherapy.
"While chemotherapy saves lives, it causes significant collateral damage to the immune system. The results of this study suggest that fasting may mitigate some of the harmful effects of chemotherapy," said co-author Tanya Dorff, assistant professor of clinical medicine at the USC Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center and Hospital.
"More clinical studies are needed, and any such dietary intervention should be undertaken only under the guidance of a physician.”
"We are investigating the possibility that these effects are applicable to many different systems and organs, not just the immune system," added Prof Longo.
However, some British experts were sceptical of the research.
Dr Graham Rook, emeritus professor of immunology at University College London, said the study sounded "improbable".
Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said: “There is some interesting data here. It sees that fasting reduces the number and size of cells and then re-feeding at 72 hours saw a rebound.
“That could be potentially useful because that is not such a long time that it would be terribly harmful to someone with cancer.
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. People are better eating on a regular basis.”
Dr Longo added: “There is no evidence at all that fasting would be dangerous while there is strong evidence that it is beneficial.
“I have received emails from hundreds of cancer patients who have combined chemo with fasting, many with the assistance of the oncologists.
“Thus far the great majority have reported doing very well and only a few have reported some side effects including fainting and a temporary increase in liver markers. Clearly we need to finish the clinical trials, but it looks very promising.”
-----
This article first appeared in The Telegraph.
Really interesting. I feel that a lot depends on the nature of the disease and answers from necessary research. In the case of the above, the findings are encouraging.
I feel your excitement about this approach. I also feel good when I fast. I urge you to seek medical advice before you embark on anything too radical. Pred is very harsh on the digestive system and I think, after 5 years, it has left me with permanent digestive symptoms. My gut is rarely “ normal” and I avoid spicy or acidic or baked foods. My Pred is now Entric Coated. This has helped. Does your surgery have a fast track for urgent cases? You should not be left to suffer in this way.
Hi , I am in a good place at the moment the pharmacist gave me some good advice , I think Gaviscon advance was just to strong for my stomach , I mixed a basic Gaviscon with a wind settler tablet and feel see much better, the catch 22 with fasting is do I risk two days taking them on an empty stomach to get the full benefit of the fast . My pred are coated tablets . My GP’s surgery is a joke , I can’t even get them to answer the phone now , last week when I finally got through they told me to ring back sometime this week and they will try to arrange a phone appointment for the week after. I had to but my lip i was so angry, and rheumatology is even worse I think they have packed up and gone away . Anyway I am looking after my self now , had enough of them . Sorry rant over 😀👍
" My friend who had AS and was on biologics for a number of years is in complete remission and he claims it was mostly down to his fasting and may I add mind set ."
And absolutely NOTHING to do with the very expensive and highly targetted treatment with the biologic then? If it was all mind set none of us would be here ... The effect of the anti-TNF drugs used in AS is impressive - but they aren't a total cure.
"I read that a 72 hour fast can virtually replace the immune system cells and the body going into preservation mode eats up the damaged cells first"
It is true that fasting does appear to have quite dramatic effects on the blood levels of certain cells - but it doesn't mean they are killed off or even reprogrammed and it is far too soon to make claims that it cures illnesses.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
clevelandclinicabudhabi.ae/...
news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-...
Michael Mosely went to see the Californian work before he came up with his theories. Using fasting before chemotherapy does seem to temper the effects - but if it were as simple as that, they would be using it a lot more!
Some great points there , I think my friends mind set was probably the real winner in my post, but if the fasting created the mind set happy days , I suppose it’s a bit of a placebo effect, but saying that fasting multiple times over a long period of time might just have some of the answers , 👍
Walter Longo uses quite a few additive nutrients & minerals to his fasting program. He produces (or did) a balanced nutrition course, expensive I believe. It’s all fascinating but why isn’t it being widely used in the medical world I wonder.
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