When I read Carolyn Dean's book The Magnesium Miracle, it was with an eye to osteoporosis and I didn't really pay much attention to magnesium's corrective role even in inflammation and other disorders. Now I'm reading the 3rd edition (read 2nd edition before) and although I'm not far into it I think it's worth recommending to everyone. A lot of the symptoms of magnesium deficiency ring bells! One thing I noted was her comment that if our vegetables including leafy greens are grown in depleted soil, we will not be getting the minerals we expect, including magnesium. Note to self: start having those regular Epsom salts soaks again!
Magnesium: When I read Carolyn Dean's book The... - PMRGCAuk
Magnesium
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HeronNS
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Thanks for posting!
PMRproAmbassador
I use magnesium for cardiac symptoms - doesn't seem to make much difference to the PMR though
What caught my attention was the mention of nerve problems, e.g. pins and needles, numbness, twitching, vertigo, which are sometimes mentioned by people. These can, apparently, be caused by a deficiency of magnesium in relation to extra calcium, something a lot of us must be vulnerable to given we're told to take extra calcium and Vitamin D, but no attention given to any of the other minerals, etc. And that was just one category....
All the more point for a really good and balanced diet
Like so much else, magnesium is now sometimes lacking in our depleted soils.... I haven't been enjoying the Epsom salts baths since I moved because my new bathtub is actually really uncomfortable and I don't want to stay in it as long as I'd need to for enough magnesium absorption. But I could heed my own advice and have a footbath!
Hi Heron,
What is a good length of time for the epsom salt bath to be effective?
Thanks!!
I will look it up in Dean's book! I seem to remember something like 20 minutes, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for looking it up, I take an epsom salt bath every night and wondered about time in the tub.
If you are using Epsom salts every night you don't need any advice from me! When I was in my house with my more ergonomically designed tub I only had an Epsom salts soak occasionally. I can't remember now but it might have been roughly once a week, and that would have been sporadic. I think I've had three in the last year. Just used up the bag I had and never bought more - until today! My current bathtub has a very flat bottom, and as our bottoms are not flat it doesn't sit well! I stupidly left the choice up to my contractor, before I caught on to how incompetent he and his crew were about so many things.
"Limit your soak to thirty minutes and follow the directions on the label for how much Epsom salts to add to your bath (as a general rule use no more than 2 cups as a time."
I'm a cheapskate and because I don't fill the tub I actually only use about a cup or less. Also read elsewhere 1/2 cup for a footbath.
Consider using a baby bathtub foam insert to sit/lay on.
in reply to HeronNS
My new tub in apt is much larger than my last apt. So I have gotten into it once.
I sank down into the water and it was bliss. But the time came where I had to get out. The problems first started when I left the water in the tub and tried to turn over. The wave I created almost went over the top. So now I say to myself. Stupid it will be a lot easier if you drain the water so I did. I still don’t have a lot of strength in my arm since I dislocated my shoulder... so trying to get to my knees was proving a bit harder than my 25 year old brain could figure out.. (If we cannot be mobile we can still daydream we are young)...
Calling the fire department is out of the question as I forgot to set out a sheet for emergencies... if I was 25 ....bring them on sheet or not, firemen are always so cute.
Now I am freezing because the water is gone so I finally hoist myself up on the edge then fall onto the floor..
Yeah I now only take showers and thank God for grab bars because I just barely get my legs over the side of the tub.
🙀🤪
~Me too PMRpro - from transdermal to variety of oral i.e. liquid +capsule & lypo spheric - ticker not jumping around as much plus rhythm appears reasonably/mostly steady as she goes 
A tiny bottle of liquid magnesium pidolate taken as soon as I notice a bit of jumpiness does seem to calm things down and it may stop it going from just fast into an arrythmia. Still a pest when it happens at night ...
~Sounds excellent -not familiar with magnesium pidolate and never quite sure why ticker chooses to play up in wee smalls but after certain time of AF or SVT (hard to know which is which) I usually reach for Diltiazem . Anything that keeps me at home and not in hospital
The only times I have bothered to go to the ED because of a/f that was getting silly it has stopped by the time I got there!!! Not had diltiazem suggested - that's what OH was on. Does it work quickly? Have to say, the magnesium seems pretty good - only downside is I have to pay for it myself!
~No it doesn't work quickly as inclined to take half tab and build up. Required dose 2 x 30mg (quick acting) results instant dreadful left sided headache. Takes about 4 + hours of my careful monitoring and know certain triggers that may contribute so fine balancing act.
I have been using magnesium for night time leg cramps for a number of years ( cannot remember how long!).....but probably about the same number of years as PMR diagnosis ...c. 3/4...and magnesium is wonderful for preventing the cramps..but of no consequence to PMR that I have observed.
When I was diagnosed with GCA and started my prednisone regimen, my doctor added magnesium. Just saying~~~🙄😻
My doctor has me using epsom salt 20 minute bath, magnesium citrate (200 mg x a day) and magnesium glyconate for muscles and relaxation. I am on cardiac meds that deplete magnesium and potassium so others may require less.
vitalnutrients.net/blog/com...
I was taking magnesium citrate until someone posted a list of different magnesiums and what they were good for. It said NOT to take calcium citrate!I can't remember the reason it gave. I was so confused by the list I stopped taking magnesium altogether. I wonder if you can help.
Thanks
Kate
Possibly because the primary use for mag citrate is as a laxative? I take two other sorts of magnesium and neither seems to have a laxative effect which is as well as I sometimes need more than usual!
Large doses of magnesium citrate are used as a purgative. The supplement I occasionally use (must really take it more often) has only 125 mg per capsule. I guess it's the most popular supplement because it's cheap. Now that I understand I should take possible magnesium deficiency more seriously I'm going to look for a spray.
Hi, I used a spray and all it did for me was dry my skin out something terible! I take the tablets now and have done for quite some time. I take them along with Quinine for night cramps. Not been diagnosed with PMR but have most of the symptoms and am waiting to see a specialist Rhumie. The last Rhumie I saw ( about 2 years ago) made no comment on the fact that I was taking the Magnesium. I hope you find something to help you without the side affects soon.
I have been receiving IV magnesium chloride (2g) + Vitamin C (25g) weekly.
I stopped the IVs a couple of times for various reasons and my PMR/GCA symptoms ( also CRP and ESR levels ) increased after a few weeks without the IVs.
I also take daily soaks in Epsom salt + arnica in the AM.
Before PMR ( I thought ) I only needed 3 - 4 hours of sleep per night and was working 18 hour days. 3 - 4 hours straight sleep became 2 hours ( 20 min naps a few times a day ) when I became caregiver to my mother-in-law. Then PMR/GCA hit and my doctor told me I couldn't continue living like that.
It is difficult to reprogram your body to get more sleep after 35 years of little sleep. I recently started taking "Triple Calm" oral magnesium supplements at night and sleep through the night ( 6 - 7 hours ).
I’ve read about IV vitamin drips but it’s not something I’ve ever seen around here (UK) where are you based?
Must ask my GP about them. But as somebody mentioned earlier in the post nobody discusses your vitamin profile or measures it.
I suppose it's not possible to know whether it was losing the extra Vitamin C or the magnesium, or both, which contributed to the increase in your symptoms?
I'm beginning to suspect that what I interpret as PMR "niggles" may be attributable to other things. I soaked for half an hour in Epsom salts last night, and had taken a magnesium capsule as well and I really did feel a lot better this morning, better than I had for some time. I don't think it's placebo effect, however time will tell. Will need to take magnesium every day for a while. Fortunately, provided one doesn't take enough to stimulate the bowels, it doesn't appear to have the same mutual interference effect with pred that calcium does so I'll take a capsule early in the day.
As a scientist, I have attempted to determine how the IVs may be affecting my PMR/GCA.
Without going into a deep dive explanation, based upon limited experimentation, I believe that the Vitamin C IV significantly helps the GCA ( large vasculature ), and the magnesium in IV form helps significantly with the PMR. I am not saying that the Vitamin C doesn't also help with the PMR, because it may. I just don't have sufficient experimental data.
I do believe that the large dose Magnesium in IV form works significantly better than oral/transdermal supplementation.
BTW, the Vitamin C combined with Fish Oil ( EPA + DHA ) have significantly reduced my lipids and triglicerides which replicates results that I experienced previously via oral supplementation.
I take Magnesium BisGlycinate from Amazon. It's the kindest one to absorb (other types can cause bowel upsets.) I had to suppliment Calcium following Parathyroidectomy surgery and it was always under discussion in our support group: If you take calcium you need Vit D and Magnesium.
I use a magnesium oil spray on my arms and legs before bed. It helps me sleep!! 😴😴 Suggested by a friend when I was having great trouble sleeping.
Dark chocolate and banana are good source of magnesium - For those that don't consume much carbs then tofu, avocado, and nuts may be an alternative.
Can't face the day without my Epsom Salt bath, together with a few drops of peppermint and lavender essential oils. I do this every morning and soak for about 20 minutes. Also take a magnesium (bisglycinate supplement which has the addition of some B vitamins and N-acetyl-Carnitine. This is in powder form, so I don't have to swallow more tablets.
You know as I age it seems to take me longer and longer to get up in the morning and to get ready for bed in the evening. I don't think I would be relaxed enough to soak for 20 minutes in the morning! But my naturally dry skin would suffer very quickly. Sadly the body cream I had been using for years was manufactured by a company bought out by GSK and they, of course, discontinued it, and despite my best efforts I haven't found anything that works as well for me. (I'd already run the gamut back when I discovered the cream and there still isn't anything right for me.)
Agreed, about the skin drying, but i use a cheap vit.E cream, sometimes I use a Rose seed oil. Agree also about not feeling relaxed in the morning, but the Epsom Salt bath, together with several drops of lavender essential oil for relaxation, and peppermint essential oil for my lungs helps me to relax. This is when I do some deep breathing to get the benefit of the vapours from these oils. Believe you me, this procedure has helped me a lot to relax since I had my lung op. Also seems to give me some energy to face the day.
It works for you. I know I'd have to stay with the evening soak. There's just too much to do in the morning. In the evening it doesn't really matter if actually falling asleep stretches into the wee small hours The cream I used included shea butter as one of the ingredients and I think this is the key. I did find something else which includes it but it has a sort of musty smell which is, naturally enough, off-putting!* Plain shea butter is kind of impossible to use, I've tried!
*Plus it comes in a pump container, not a tube, and that is extraordinarily wasteful as it's not as easy to cut open as a tube is in order to retrieve the final week or two worth of product!
Pump containers can sometimes be a nuisance, especially when the pump doesn't work, as has often happened with me . I wouldn't dare get into the bath before I go to bed, I might fall asleep and drown. Bedtime I literally Zonk out as soon as my head hits the pillow. Good luck with the magnesium - either Chloride in a spray or Biglycinate in supplement, or both.
Be careful about oil for the lungs- check with your pulmonary; the lungs have no way of excreting oil and can cause a lipid pneumonia.
I don't think essential oils are really oils. Not like, say, olive oil.
They are an oily substance and my brother’s pulmonary said to absolutely not use any Vick’s vapor rub in his nostrils because of inhaling the oil of menthol.
In the USA recently we had a run of popcorn pneumonia/lungs from carrier oil in the vaping device. Used for tobacco or cannabis. The lungs cannot handle inhaled oils.
Their primary purpose is to smell them! I'm not denying that it is plain stupid to inhale flavoured cannabis oils, but that really isn't the same as lolling in a bathtub pleasantly scented with a few drops of lavendar!
That’s true!
in reply to Karenjaninaz
Inhalation of oil is very different from the way I have used essentialoil. Aromatherapy... The clue is in the name.
I hVe got to say I have never put vicks up my nose. I presume you mean a steam inhalation?
Karenjaninaz in reply to
Yes.
in reply to Karenjaninaz
That makes sense. I was Imagining him like in the films putting it in his nostril to hide the smell of a murder victim! 🙉
I don't think we have heard the last of problems with vaping I am afraid. People who never smoked vape. It still has nicotine in most brands I think.
HeronNS in reply to
We heard that the amount of nicotine was many times higher than in ordinary cigarettes in some cases. Criminal I think. Don't know if they've clamped down on that, COVID-19 seems to have taken over the health airwaves.
in reply to HeronNS
Yes. In the UK its the c19 replaced another sad story of the suicide of a female TV presenter at 40yrs that was top of the trending news for almost 10days. So a flu story was a relief.
HeronNS in reply to
News folk must have been in heaven for a few weeks here. Not only were there all the usual shenanigans (politicians and celebrities and sex or corruption or just plain stupidity), but there was the Iranian jetliner tragedy, followed by covid19, and then aboriginal people and their supporters blocking major rail lines in Canada. These things have dealt serious blows to Nova Scotia as our port relies on swift passage of containers from Halifax into the heart of the continent. And the Chinese stopped importing lobster just at the time of year when their demand is usually highest. Passenger rail travel just resumed from our neck of the woods a couple of days ago after being stopped for, I think, over two weeks. Many of the Iranian-Canadians killed were brilliant researchers, or otherwise very productive members of society and their loss is going to have a very serious and sad ripple effect.
I sometimes feel like the world is falling apart.
But then there is nothing any of us can do, not really, except the little things in our daily lives, like not using plastic when we can avoid it, or not buying things containing palm oil. But what good it does in the big picture....
in reply to HeronNS
Every little helps.
HeronNS in reply to
Stores are phasing out the plastic bags they use to pack purchases in. So far the city still tells us to bag our papers for recycling. Sigh.
in reply to HeronNS
I have have 3 bins... But still can't recycle about 80 % of packaging.
HeronNS in reply to
There's a lot of talk but little action on making manufacturers be responsible for dealing with packaging at the consumer's end. That might lead to reduction and more effective recycling.
Speaking of which I've been quite insistent that my pred bottle be reused when I get a prescription refill. There was some pushback from the pharmacy at first, but more recently they have become much more amenable and I think are starting to encourage people to reuse the containers where it is appropriate. Of course a lot of them couldn't be used again, it would depend on the medication. Still, baby steps!
in reply to HeronNS
I create a carrier bag full of med boxes and plastic and sometimes metal pill packet thing. The metally ones at okay in my glass, bottles bin which is massive. The paper one is the smallest.
in reply to
Apologies if you got the unedited version!!
HeronNS in reply to
I can return vitamin bottles to the pharmacy whenever I buy another bottle. Unfortunately most of my supplements have to come from a health food store. I make a point of returning the health food ones to the pharmacy, hoping they'll get the message! My only med at the moment (touch wood) is pred.
in reply to HeronNS
There's a fruit and veg shop tha collect egg boxes. The sell lots of loose apples etc like the other whole shop. Everything just about about goes in my cloth bag nicely.
HeronNS in reply to
Used to be able to return egg cartons for reuse. Now, thanks to government regulations (the date is stamped on the carton) can't do any more. Well, individual farmers will take them, but they can only use so many. The bag my apples come in can be returned to be reused. I buy a lot of things at a local farmers' market.
in reply to HeronNS
I am thinking of getting the organic veg and fruit box that delivered for a total of 12 pounds. It seems to contain enough for me for the week and is seasonal.
HeronNS in reply to
CSA or Community Shared Boxes is what they're called here, and are a way of supporting farmers directly. If I didn't live literally within steps of the market, which functions year round, I would definitely consider this.
Cera Ve is a new line that is supply to be ( operative word) formulated to be better absorbed and healing for the skin.
The face wash I can personally attest to. ( I’m Almost 51)
It threw me because it said “foaming.”
It does not come out of pump foaming at all.
It really should say “ once mixed with water will later nicely and remove dead skin cells, daily make up if you wear it, and daily environmental dirt etc, without removing the natural barrier Mother Nature gave you.”
I think a marketer found it too wordy!
The range of moistures needed for various body parts are very nice as well.
My compound pharmacist carries the line also!
Thanks for tip.
In addition I also use a magnesium chloride spray. If your skin tingles when you spray, this is a sign of a lack of magnesium.
Yes, my plan is to look for something like that next time I'm near the appropriate store!
I am following a micronutrients bone density program that, after one year, in a Canadian study, statistically improved osteoporosis. It recommends ~ 25 Mg Mg. I can hardly tolerate this low dose- it gives me cramps and a couple of times I got dizzy. I do have IBS so maybe that’s why. The preparation has been recommended by Consumer Labs a US testing organization. I have the same problem with any vitamin with Mg in the formulation.
Go figure.
Then you may be a candidate for a kind of magnesium absorbed through the skin?
I’ll check that out on Consumer labs. They check formulations for purity and accuracy- meaning presence of impurities and if the content is as specified on the label. How would I know what dose my body is actually absorbing that’s the question.
I don't think we know that about any supplement, whether oral or dermal, not really. All we can do is follow directions on the label.
Is it the COMB study? I didn't follow their protocol, merely looked on it as proof that bone density can be improved without taking the drugs. COMB also uses strontium citrate, unfortunately, because although I think it is present in trace amounts in our food it almost seems like cheating to use it in a study like this. 
Yes, it is but because fertilizers are used extensively in farming there is less strontium in our food. This was written in the whole study which I read through. It recommends strontium citrate not ranelate. I am unable to tolerate any bone building meds. The study recommends calcium only from diet not supplements, along with K2, fish oil and magnesium. I’ll let the group know what my results are in the Fall.
Ranelate is a manmade version developed, as far as I'm concerned, with the sole purpose of being able to patent a version of strontium and make money from it.
I remember strontium from days of the cold war when they were still doing atmospheric testing because they were worried about radioactive strontium in our milk....
You are a wealth of knowledge.
Strontium 90 is a radioactive isotope.
As kids we played outdoors all the time and we used to nibble buttercup petals and joke about the strontium-90. I think fear of nuclear annihilation was our verson of today's dread of climate catastrophe and extinction. Except nuclear annihilation still lurks there in the background, behind all this panic about coronavirus which as far as the planet is concerned will only help to divest itself of a handful of aging humans.
To each his own, but there are much better ways to get magnesium into the body...but a hot epsom salt bath sure feels good!! “”researchers agree that magnesium is not absorbed through people’s skin — at least not in any scientifically relevant amounts (1Trusted Source).”
Perhaps. Although as the study I just read pointed out there needs to be more research. This may turn out to be like the early studies which found no evidence that Vitamin K helped improve bone health. They seemed to not distinguish between Vitamin K1 and Vitamin K2, and also ignored evidence from Japan that Vitamin K2 was effective. As has been pointed out, the study looked at serum magnesium, and one type of product, and for a relatively short time, and as serum magnesium is carefully regulated by the body that really doesn't prove anything. I think the proof is in the fact that some of us do gain relief from topical magnesium. There appears to be evidence that localized use of magnesium to relieve specific pain does work. My only experience with transdermal magnesium is long soaks in a warm bath, and I concede maybe it was only the warm water that helped but anecdotally I can say that a bath with Epsom salts seems to make the next morning more pain free, whereas a plain bath helps overnight but effects have worn off by morning.
More than you ever want to know about magnesium..😂😂
painscience.com/articles/ep...
in reply to daworm
I am about halfway through I think.... But i did get distracted by the idea of..... pickling my pain away. I also like bafflegab. Not sure about all he science yet... Magnesium sulphate was my best friend though when I suffered carbuncles and boils. And certainly "drew" them! Epsom salts seemed to help my dogs foot. I must confess that the few times I have used Epsom salts in the bath the bits that didn't dissolve (no Matter how much I swirled) put me off it.... I will finish the article later. As you say... More than you ever want to know about magnesium.. Or my carbuncles. 😂🤣😂😱
HeronNS in reply to
MIne dissolves completely.
in reply to HeronNS
I probably needed to spend more.... It was chunky salts. I don't bathe now... 😢
Is your water hard? As you say - what's a bath?
in reply to PMRpro
I didn't think it was but my new tap scaling up.
HeronNS in reply to
Isn't magnesium one of the things which makes water hard? Our water is really soft.
in reply to HeronNS
I will have to pass on that.. I don't know. But I think hard water doesnt aid foaming and dissolving.
HeronNS in reply to
I looked it up, magnesium and calcium contribute to water hardness, which is why it is actually healthier as drinking water although not so much fun to wash with!
In the UK it is often calcium - but things don't dissolve as well in hard water whatever the ions are that are in it. Hard water is an important contributor to cardiovascular health:
"The mechanism by which hard water may provide protection against cardiovascular disease remains a matter of debate. The extra calcium it carries could help reduce blood pressure, whereas low serum magnesium concentrations—common to people living in soft-water areas—appear linked with arrhythmias."
Can't say I've ever heard that Epsom salts would detoxify one so he didn't need to debunk that as far as I was concerned and he admits the jury is out regarding pain relief, whatever the mechanism may be.... However I may just stick with the capsules and take them more often, and save my money regarding skin application. Thanks!
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