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Urinary and Antibiotics (again)

Following on from my previous post re urinary infections. As stated before I was put on a 3 day antibiotic course to start with which didn't clear it and then had a second 3 day course which, after several days was just as bad so back to Doctor and he, after checking my urine sample said it was still showing an infection and gave me a 7 day course of a different antibiotic, Trimethoprine which I finished on Monday 4th Sept. All seemed good until this morning when I woke at 5 am with strange movements and gurgling feelings in my stomach and the need to go to toilet. This was all similar to what happened previously so another appt at Doctors but could only see the Nurse Practitioner who wasn't very helpful. I wasn't keen on going on more antibiotics anyway but she said the sample this morning wasn't showing infection but will send it to hospital for analysis and for me to ring on Wednesday for the result! and in the meantime to drink more water and Cranberry juice. She did say that the two previous specimens showed EColi infections. I am hoping against hope that this doesn't get any worse but she said if it does to make an appt with Doctor (not easy) Has anybody else experienced this problem and where do these infections come from, I am so keen on personal hygiene. Thank you

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I have had similar to you and no I don't know wear it comes from it makes you feel dirty when the word coli is mentioned and like you I am clean

I have not had a reacurrsnce for a few months now but I am on half a tablet for life now so that must be doing the job

Speak to your doctor about that

One I hope you get it sorted out soon

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Thank you Rusty8 for your response. I assume it's an antibiotic you are on, what is the name of the antibiotic. As stated in my earlier post on this, as I am so particular about hygiene in all form so I can only assume the EColi infection came from having the two camera "probes" one bladder which was a routine 2 yearly one as my sister had a cancer problem a few years ago so I asked for a endoscopy and I got an infection once before after it, and the other was a gynaecology one and I don't know why my Doctor requested that and I haven't been told of the result of that one either - must ask on next appointment. I feel at the moment that I will need to see a Doctor tomorrow as the toilet journeys are increasing already. D

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Demand a referral to a urologist - asap. But no antibiotics should be given without a culture being done - that is how resistance develops. A mere dip as the GP is doing shows nothing.

Both PMR and pred can lead to irritable bladder symptoms - you get the symptoms of an infection with cystitis, pain and frequency but there are no bacteria present.

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Hi PMRpro , did you watch the documentary about Sepsis ? It was scary stuff . Particularly when the immune systems are compromised like ours . I didn't realise it was so dangerous . It mentioned urinary infections so that prompted me to ask your thoughts .

Hope you're well. Flu vaccinations are late this year in our area . x

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No - I live in Italy and OH takes control of the FilmOn access to UK TV so I don't get much of a look-in. His idea of what's on worth watching and mine are bit different ;-)

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Ah typical husband , wasn't pleasant viewing but interesting for awareness . Hope you have Netflix , some great series on there . "Frankie and Gracie" is good , currently watching " Gypsy", with Naomi Watts.

Not a huge tv fan but do enjoy stuff I can lose myself in occasionally . x

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I'm a very strange person - I'd rather watch the sepsis programme... ;-)

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Ha I knew you would , that's why I mentioned it :) x

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Thank you PMRpro for your usual knowledgeable response which I will take up with my Doctor. I am sorry for my delay in responding but didn't see your reply until this morning and I wanted to get to the Chemist first thing as I had seen in there the day before the product called VST#3 and decided to try that as an interim measure. I woke this morning at 5ish with the same movements in my stomach but when I got going didn't feel too bad hence my Chemist early visit. I have taken one dose and must say I don't have the urge to rush to the toilet as before so if this works I would much rather take that than Antibiotics. Anyway I also had a text from the Surgery saying I need to have a blood test so one is arranged for tomorrow at 8.50 (unearthly time) I will ask about the result of the urine sample sent off yesterday whilst there. After the blood result I will make an appointment with my usual Doctor for a review and will suggest a culture test be done. I will also mention the bladder stretching which I have never heard of.

Thanks also to Greensleeves and Snazzyd for your response and suggestions, much appreciated. D

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There is a lady on the forum who swears by VSL#3 (which is what I assume you mean, a probiotic?). She was told by her surgeon to use it post a gallbladder op that became rather complicated.

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Yes that's the one I ought to have got up and looked for its exact name but I knew it was 3 letters pls #3. It was probably the lady who responded to my earlier post when I had the first lot of antibiotics and I had made a note of it. She suggested getting it from a reputable manufacturer like Boots who had to pre-order it for her. I got it fron Lloyds Chemist and it said it is manufactured in Ireland so thought that should be good. I am wondering tho' if I should still take the Omeprazole which I take first thing in the morning as well as the yogurt? Thanks again

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Don't know about the omeprazole - something I refuse to take and have never needed it.

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Good luck Dot. do tell them the Trimethoprim worked but the symptoms are back . The dip stick isn't always right , neither are the lab results if there's not enough bacteria to culture .

You can ask to see a urologist if it continues .

My daughter was getting up sometimes 6 times a night .

The dipstick showed leukocytes and protein , so she was given a broad spectrum antibiotic and a sample was sent to the lab .

The GP rang 2 days later and told her to stop the antibiotics as lab results were okay .

I told her to finish the course as she was still in discomfort .

Naughty mother , I know , I know , anyway the antibiotics cleared it up . How would it have ended ?

More tests and a possible kidney infection ?

I don't know .

Obviously we shouldn't have antibiotics unless absolutely necessary , due to resistance ,but it is wrong to start a course and stop them ?

Hope all goes well with blood tests x

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"but it is wrong to start a course and stop them ?"

The latest thinking published recently is that the shorter the course the better and you should stop once the symptoms are improved! Wonder how long that will last...

Certainly it is becoming more common for them to use higher doses for a shorter time - which does seem to have some sense.

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Interesting as the Omeptrazole I was advised by the. Doctor to take whilst on the

Preds but whilst I was taking these Antibiotics I didn't take them but just had more of the joghurt.! Maybe that was wrong and maybe the cause of the antibiotics not having worked? I am still waiting for the Surgery to ring me re the urine sample. I asked whilst there this morning having the blood test but was told that yes they had the result but awaiting the Nurse Practioner (who sent it) dealing with it. Then I was told that both of the Surgeries are closed this afternoon from 1pm for training! I have given them long enough now so I am getting on the phone now. I don't feel too bad just now but definitely not right. Thanks again. D

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Hi again. Just got back from a Doctorappt as when I finally got an answer from the surgery yesterday re the the urine sample they said it was OK and no further action required! What! as I knew due to the discomfort I was in "down there" that something wasn't right so saw my usual Doc just now and it turns out to be thrush which she says happens in low immunity and after antibiotics. Hopefully I am now on the right path to getting back to normally. I do hope so as up until the last few weeks I considered myself fortunate as, from being diagnosed with PMR in May and prescribed Preds I have been pain free. So here's living in hope. Thank you one and all for your welcome advice and help. Dorothy

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Why on earth do they ASSUME it is a UTI? Thrush is a very common reason for urinary tract discomfort but I suppose most people have other symptoms.

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I don't know but at least my usual Doctor who is looking after me with the PMR seems to be more on the ball and at least I am now on the right path hopefully to see it off and get back to my usual self then I can return to my tapering programme. D

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Hello, you could have easily got an infection from the cystoscope or the other investigations down there. It may well be that you have not cleared it properly. A dip stick test is not a totally reliable test to say whether you have an infection or not. It is good that it has been sent off because you can get quite resistant E. coli urinary infections that need longer term treatment. Good luck.

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To add, when I say "from the cystoscope...", I don't mean they have used dirty instruments. I meant that your bugs can be 'posted' into the wrong places or the trauma to the tissues, even if not visible, can make it much easier for bugs to get a foothold, not that they have feet either!

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Hi Dot , I'm repeatedly getting this . The lab reports show nasty bugs are present , but never enough to culture or grow .

My personal hygiene has never been in question , I've found daily showering preferable to sitting in the bath , which can cause further irritation .

Antibiotics do clear it up , and then it's back again .

The urologist wants to stretch my bladder and tubes , ( which doesn't fill me with joy ) , and if that doesn't work I'll be given a daily antibiotic as my kidney function isn't good .

I blame menopause and PMR.

The renal specialist blames the Prednisilone .

Cephalexin is the most effective antibiotic for me personally .

If they've managed to culture a sample they should know what antibiotics are effective .

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"The urologist wants to stretch my bladder and tubes"

I've had that done 3 times and the first 2 times it lasted for 10 years with almost no UTIs. They were nothing to do with pred - so the renal specialist may be wrong and nor was it the menopause. Purely structural.

I was in Germany the first time and here in Italy the last time - they use no sedation or pain relief so I do know what it is like in the raw: no worse than period pain and lasts far less time! The middle time I was in the UK and it was so funny: the urologist did the scope and said he would repeat the stretch but I'd have to wait as they needed the anaesthetist. I persuaded them it was fine, just do it like the previous time and he did. The poor nurses were beside themselves - they literally had their legs crossed!

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Haha , and what a conversation when you're lying there , legs akimbo !

I'm not surprised at the nurses reaction .

You're far braver than me .

The urologist is planning on giving me a general but I'd prefer to be awake , I like to know what's going on .

I agree re: pred . I've had problems since my 20's but they returned during menopause , so I assumed the connection .

My daughter's friend had her first baby in Italy , very different experience medically , to the UK . x

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I bet!!!!

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I've seen it countless times when the lab report comes back as just colonisation or very small numbers, yet the patient has symptoms.

With personal hygiene, beware over using antibacterial products or any soap or detergent containing (shower gels) products in the immediate area that isn't ordinary skin and is much more sensitive. I used to say that if it doesn't grow hair, it's not ordinary skin and has other needs and ways of protecting you, such as mucus, pH balance and helpful bacteria.

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The last time I saw a Specialist regarding recurring urinary tract infections

she told me that she always treats the symptoms whether or not there is

a confirmed infection. I was put on a much stronger antibiotic for a longer

time and this seemed to nail it. She also told me to ask my GP for an ant-

biotic prescription to keep at home and at the first sign of the symptons

to take it and not to wait until a specimen has been cultured. Take a shower

instead of a bath and to wash 'down there' with a very gentle, unperfumed

oil or cream such as Aveeno. If you like to use a perfumed shower cream

you can still use it on the rest of your body. I do hope this helps. These

infections can make you very miserable.

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Thank you 42myown7 for your response (see my reply to PMRpro above) I have always used Simple soap for years just for that sensitive area and a nice perfumed soap for the rest of my body. I don't have a bath, only a shower so I don't soak in the perfumed water. It is a pity because I do so love lovely smells around me. I had a similar problem a few years ago and it was suggested not to use coloured toilet paper because of the dye and now only ever buy White. Thanks again I don't know what we would do without this informative site.

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I wouldn't use even Simple soap there - just because it SOUNDS simple doesn't mean it is! Nor any of the so-called specially designed soaps. Nature made our bodies well able to clean themselves and using artificial "stuff" is often bad for us.

stuff.co.nz/life-style/well...

I haven't used soap except for hands for about 10 years - I developed a few allergies along with PMR! Don't eat wheat either...

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I don't use soap down there either , just spray water from front to back with the shower head .

Pity we don't have bidets .

Down below cleans itself .

Even drinking caffeine can cause irritation . x

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Good morning And there was I thinking it necessary to wash that area extra well to prevent any bacterial transfer - how wrong then. I have just had my shower and done as you suggest. Your concern is appreciated. I am off for my blood test after I have fed the hens and let them out plus the birds already out of course unless they are blown away as it is gale force here and this is obviously nothing compared with the Carribean I feel for them. Right it's feed myself now. Have a good day. D

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As long as the balance of bacteria is OK - you're OK. There are far more "good" than "bad" bacteria and it is like your lawn - as long as the good grass plants are healthy, the bad weeds don't get a look in. Soap just upsets the environment for the bacteria and they can't thrive - and then the bad boys get overbearing and shove the nice ones out. Same on skin - and the bad ones make healthy sweat into something smelly.

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Absolutely! Soap works by breaking up oils, no matter how 'kind' it supposed to be.

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