This is a long story that I've posted about before so I won't bore you all with it again . To cut it short I was found to be b12 deficient when I lived in the uk like 20 years ago and given loading dose injections and then 1 every 3 months. When I moved here local doc said in france they didn't treat with injections as old fashioned ??? Anyway tested my blood and level was OK so said I didn't need treatment but this was obviously because I had been having regular injections.So I was without injections for a good few years and started to feel a bit crap so started multi vitamins containing b12. Had routine bloodtest and level through the roof ( over 3000). Told to stop multivitamins and sent to specialist who I think thought I'd been taking multi vitamins by the bucket load but I hadn't, just 1 a day. He just said not to take any more.
Years later injections were prescribed by same doc who said they weren't given as old fashioned as my level was through the floor.
Now different doc and once again injections stopped as level high on blood test but when level came down to bottom of range I was told to drink the vial s of b12 instead of having them injected 1 every 2 weeks.
Another blood test and level still only 190 when range 150 something to 800 something so I started taking 1 a week.
I went to the docs yesterday to discuss another routine blood test ( b12 a bit lower still after upping the dose) and was told to be careful with the b12 and only drink 1 vial every 2 weeks because in her past experience she's found that b12 can cause cancer!!!!!!
I'm sorry for the long post again but I really have cut this short as over the years this has been an absolute nightmare.
It just really sums up what we are up against when a doc tells you that doesn't it.
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Gill567
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I'm sorry that you're dealing with doctors who lack understanding.
Many forum members here end up treating themselves. Some get extra B12 injections privately, some try high dose oral B12 (1000mcg or higher) and some as a last resort turn to self injection (SI).
Drinking ampoules....that's a new one for me...I can't see that that's any different to taking a high dose B12 tablet...seems a waste of injectable B12 to me.
I think PAS and B12info.com might be interested on hearing about a doctor who suggests people drink B12 ampoules.....and one who thinks B12 causes cancer....
They don't currently have a PAS support group in France but would be interested in hearing from anyone who wanted to start one in France or other countries.
1) PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society) have a page for health professionals.
Some of the info may be specific to UK
PAS welcome health professionals from around the world. They can join PAS as health affiliate members at no charge. Maybe one of your doctors would be interested in joining.
This should show several articles about B12 deficiency by B. Wolffenbuttel, including one for BMJ (British Medical Journal) and one for Mayo Clinic in US.
Although it's UK related, you might find it interesting to read a thread I started recently about the increase in UK forum members reporting their B12 injections had been stopped or swapped for oral B12.
"local doc said in france they didn't treat with injections as old fashioned"
Have you been able to track down any local, regional or national guidelines on treatment/diagnosis of B12 deficiency in France?
French Society of Haematology might publish guidelines
(Societe Francaise dHematologie SFH)
They are based in Paris.
"because in her past experience she's found that b12 can cause cancer"
I'm not a health professional or a scientist.
My understanding is that high serum B12 without taking supplements/B12 injections can be a sign of a serious health condition including some types of cancer. This to my mind is not the same thing as B12 causing cancer.
High levels of B12 would be expected in someone who was on regular B12 injections.
I'd expect a doctor to at least test liver and kidney function and to order a full blood count in someone who has high B12 without taking B12 supplements/injections and to consider referral to a specialist.
I'd really like to know what articles she has read that make her think that.
I don't know if you'll have the time but if you do I'd be interested in a very brief explanation of how health care works in France.
Thanks for your reply. It really has been a nightmare over the years and just exhausting. The ampules are Gerda 1000ug/4ml Cyanocobalamine and they can be injected IM or taken orally. It's on the box and on leaflet inside the box. B12 can be bought from the pharmacy without a prescription and they are under 2 euros for a box of 6 so I suppose that's one good thing about france.
Everything else with regards to b12 deficiency seems to be another story.
I nearly fell off my chair when she told me taking too much can cause cancer. I knew about b12 being high sometimes in people with cancer because I researched it to death years ago when I had the really high levels but this is definitely not what she was referring to.
Health care here is quite complicated. We pay quite high social charges which cover the cost of drugs at different percentage s depending what they are, usually between 35% and 70% although that changes all the time. The rest is reimbursed by your mutual insurance if you have one which you pay for monthly for. Some serious illnesses like cancer are reimbursed 100% by the state but not all of them and the list is being reduced all the time. Doc visits at the moment are usually 25 euros and reimbursed at 70% I think but they are increasing the fee shortly. Specialists are more expensive and you can end up out of pocket if you find yourself going to one that charges above the government allowed rate unless you pay out for a more expensive mutual insurance which covers the extra.
There s a lot more to it all which even french people don't fully understand and I would bore you to death trying to explain it all.
Waits for specialist appointments and procedures are now much longer than they were when we arrived so getting like the uk now in that respect.
Why are we not training medics in this? It's just utterly appalling.
I feel so strongly that it can't carry on like this. We need to expose the medical system. My only hope is that AI will help to do that, in time. With AlphaFold founders Demis Hassabis and another I forget the name of winning the Nobel Prize for protein structure prediction I reckon it won't be long before they wake up to see the need for B vitamins as essential to life.
B12 is known to be involved in DNA reproduction so surely this has to come up somewhere.
I think AI will burst through all commonly conventionally accepted knowledge and probably leave Doctors more as guides. AI is already scanning and predicting cancer in tiny cells I've seen.
The doctors statement that "B12 can cause cancer" is complete nonsense and they have not the first idea what they are talking about. Cancer can cause elevated levels of serum B12, but not the other way round.
I'd love to say I'm surprised or disappointed at this kind of ignorance but I guess I'm beyond that now.
If cancer really were a concern, I'd have expected some mention of the fact in the Summary of Product Characteristics document for Cyanokit - which can be 5 grams of B12. Most especially as some likely recipients - such as fire fighters - stand a reasonable chance of receiving it more than once due to the nature of their work.
Hi Gill, sorry to hear about your experiences. I am a little confused as my understanding is that injectable B12 is available over the counter in France and people can actually get shots done at a pharmacy there - though I guess it is possible that things may have changed in the last few years. It may be worth talking to your local pharmacist.
Yes we can buy b12 ampules very cheaply over the counter here as I said but don't think the pharmacy will do the injections. I think you need a prescription from the doc for that. When I was prescribed injection s the nurse used to come to the house to give me them but I did need the docs prescription.
It may still be worth asking the pharmacist as people were getting the injections done at the pharmacy without prescription, but that may have changed.
It's shocking. But am I mistaken in thinking that it's possible to get a B12 injection off-prescription in an 'Ugly' salon [often called 'Beauty' salons] providing you're not deficient?!
Sorry for my flippancy, but this drives me up the wall.
FlipperTD You could be deficient - but as long as they don't know that you would be okay. It would probably be okay if you told them you were deficient as they are giving you a beauty treatment rather than a medical treatment.
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