what is it this time?

[PlatypusProfit8077]

Ok, so I’ve been SI for just under a month, moving from twice weekly to about EOD following symptoms response. I was initially taking 3mg folic acid each morning with food along with magnesium at night.

Two days ago I bought a new brand of folic and increased my dosage to 5mg (following recommendations here and PA group on fb), as well as a B complex (less than 10mg of B6).

Since starting both of these I have been dizzy and nauseous and just feel awful.

Generally I had been doing really well on the injections and 3mg folic.

But I’m also due to check my iron levels, which were “in range but low” when I started B12 injections. So is it:

a) the new meds,

b)the iron

c) b12 playing up again

d) just the good old monthly

What would you pick?

[Narwhal10]

Hi PP8077,

I would not pick, I would work out for myself what was wrong with my own body by the following :-

1) Day 1 - today - do not take new meds whilst menstruating. See if I became dizzy and nauseous throughout the day.

2) Day 2 - take only the B complex whilst menstruating. See if I became dizzy and nauseous throughout the day.

3) Day 3 - take only the new brand of folic ( note if still menstruating ). See if I became dizzy and nauseous throughout the day.

By this, you will establish the majority of the answers to your questions.

Gobeithio y byddwch yn teimlo'n well yn fuan.

😘

[PlatypusProfit8077 in reply to Narwhal10]

Thanks Narwhal, I appreciate your scientific and logical approach to that! I will trial no supplements today and see how I go.

[Nackapan]

In my opinion it's probably the high dose folic acid .This has been discussed alot on here.

High dose 5mg is only prescribed short term( 3m) if you are deficient in folate.

Otherwise 400mcg is recommended daily in your age range .

I initially was prescribed a iron supplement with folic acid .

Made me ill after first dose

I was find on an iron supplement and 400mcg folic acid.

Its really difficult separating thr cause of symptoms.

I woujd only supplement going by blood results.

I personally do take a multivit and vit D.

Vit D I need daily going by blood results. A low dose iron supplement of 20g now as a maintenence dose.

I don't know where fb advocate such a high dose of folic acid??

Hopefully you can decipher what's going on soon.

[PlatypusProfit8077 in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks Nackapan! I thought the 5mg was for anyone doing EOD injections?? That’s from both the PA group and the B12 wake up group on FB

My folate at the start of this mess 3 months ago was in the upper quartile of the range but I haven’t had it checked since starting SI. I just assumed it would reduce because of the B12 injections.

I’m going to give all supplements a rest today and also ask my GP for a blood test to check iron, vit D and folate etc.

[Technoid in reply to PlatypusProfit8077]

What is the reasoning behind needing 5mg folic acid when injecting EOD?

[PlatypusProfit8077 in reply to Technoid]

I think because folate and B12 are so intimately connected in the body systems/functions. And because you need folate to convert B12 and vice versa, it stood to reason that heavy B12 supplementation would use up folate stores quickly so that also needed supplementing.

It’s so overwhelming when you first start down this deficiency road.

[Technoid in reply to PlatypusProfit8077]

Folate and B12 are closely linked for sure, but the point is that there is no logic to the contention that you need 5mg of folic acid (25x the RDA), because of frequently injecting B12. I'm very familiar with operation of the folate cycle and how B12 is involved with it.

Your body does not have an infinite need for B12, the amount required is very small - it will use what it needs and discard the rest - there is no reason why folate would be used up in greater amounts than normal just because more B12 is available.

I think part of the reason its so overwhelming is that people are repeating nonsense as truth without any real understanding of the physiology and metabolism of B12 and folate.

[WIZARD6787 in reply to PlatypusProfit8077]

>>It’s so overwhelming when you first start down this deficiency road.

It is confusing. Some people claim to have an understanding of B12 when it fact they have what they have accepted for themselves. If it was fully understood this forum would not exist.

I currently take 3 mg of Folate per day. It benefits me and I am thankful for those who share their experiences.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support]

My GP checked my folate and ferritin levels after starting b12 injections - both were low but in range. Because I still had hair falling out and bleeding gums, she gave me 3 months of folate and ferritin - then monitored it.

For the first couple of years, both were very erratic: she would ask me to supplement, my levels would go right up, then drop and I'd have to start again. It took 800 mcg to stabilise folate for a while. Hair loss and bleeding gums could have been B12 deficiency, or low folate or ferritin - quite hard to tell now. These symptoms have thankfully gone and so now do not take either, unless blood tests reveal a need.

Although GP surgery have not continued to monitor regularly since my GP left the practice, my Oral medicine consultant was happy to keep an eye on things for me. GP aiming for ferritin above 60 ug/L, as symptoms can appear below that level, but consultant recommended a ferritin level of above 80 ug/L because of my burning tongue and angular cheilitis. Folate I try to keep in top third of range, around 15 ug/L, based on blood test results.

Vitamin D - I was found to have osteoporosis of the spine - which later, with vitamin D supplements and Raloxifene daily and plenty of walking, reduced to osteopenia. I'm awaiting latest Dexascan results - but they seem to think it's still improved. Best to have vitamin D checked in case.

So I would have folate, ferritin and vitamin D checked regularly, along with thyroid. Get copies of results, so that you can pre-empt any dropping of levels. Without monitoring, very difficult to know. Osteoporosis for instance has no early symptoms - and sometimes not looked for until bones start snapping like ginger biscuits !

[PlatypusProfit8077 in reply to Cherylclaire]

That’s good to know, thank you!

I’m feeling much better today (which is a relief!) and have held off any supplements.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to PlatypusProfit8077]

Get your GP to monitor you regularly - just to ensure you know where you are currently and where you are heading !

[scnuke]

First, I would get your folate level checked. If it is in the top third of the normal range there is no need for 5mg daily. I tried that for a time and experienced a lot of odd negative effects that went away when I stopped. I inject 1mg B12 twice daily and in my experience, 5mg of folic acid is not needed. I use 800mcg daily and I am always above high range. Everyone is different and I know a lot of the FB groups preach the 5mg folic acid rule like it is the path to salvation, but it is not the best for everyone. Good luck in your journey.