Starting in the 1990s, and continuing until my diagnosis with B12 deficiency in 2021, I had a series of problems with piriformis syndrome, sciatic nerve pain, and similar involvements with leg nerves. In searching around for related B12 information in Google Scholar I came across this article:
The purpose of this study, from the article introduction:
"However, to date, there is no recent review article available focusing explicitly on the nerve-regenerating function of B vitamins. Therefore, systematic literature searches were performed to compile the actual evidence from animal studies, provide a current update on this topic for the individual vitamins B1, B6 ,and B12 as well as their combination, and try to derive biochemical explanations."
Among interesting statements in the B12 section was the following:
"Cobalamin is essential for the folate dependent methionine cycle. If the amount of B12 does not cover the demand (which is significantly increased during nerve regeneration and myelin formation), not only can important proteins (e.g. the myelin basic protein) not be generated but also homocysteine accumulates and promotes oxidative stress and damage [41–45]. This may aggravate Wallerian degeneration and delay or even prevent the progress of regeneration."
I wonder what if any correlation this might have with symptom exacerbation in people who are undertreated with B12 injections, eg, infrequent injections spaced weeks or even months apart, as opposed to the recommended frequency of every other day or twice a week.
Interestingly, the above-quoted mention of folate was the only mention of folate in the entire article.
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WiscGuy
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I would also like to thank you for the post Wiseguy, like Wheat will have to read it more than once or even twice
In that way that the internet is always listening, I'd mentioned having peripheral neuropathy online, and next thine YouTube was recommending videos from health care persons about neuropathy, and one video was a nurse who was saying you can regenerate nerves and myelin sheath using infra red light.
You can buy these panels (size of an A4 sheet of paper) from Amazon, and put your foot or hand on it for however long and it will help. There's a specific frequency of IR light that does the trick.
(I'm now waiting for the internet to tell me how to marry a billionaire 🤣)
What b vitamin complex would one suggest for people like us? I was reading that B1 and B6 if taking too much can actually cause neuropathy but if you take less than 50 mg a day they say you should be safe. But I read other things and they kind of vary so I'm wondering what would be a safe b complex to take for somebody who doesn't have a b complex deficiency except for B12. My B6 and my B1 are not deficient. So would that cause me to have too much if I took a b complex? My feet are getting to the point where I'm in bed a lot of the time. And I'm losing the feeling below my knees and my feet and in my hands. And it's getting worse so I want to try to take a b complex and see if that helps. Thank you this info!
Every day with hydroxy usually. But I'm trying methyl right now for the past week and have skipped two days (yesterday and today) just to see. My feet are a little less painful today. But numb. Pain usually a 9, today a tolerable 7 for now.
I forget who it is, but there is at least one person on the forum who injects twice daily. You might consider starting a new thread asking about that, and if you want more responses about folate, you could try starting a new thread for that too.
Thank you. I'm in the process of getting testing on my legs so I will wait and see what they find. But I will start P5P B6 and the other B1 that was suggested. Thanks 😊
>>I wonder what if any correlation this might have with symptom exacerbation in people who are undertreated with B12 injections, eg, infrequent injections spaced weeks or even months apart, as opposed to the recommended frequency of every other day or twice a week.
I have concluded that anyone who is suffering any symptoms that may be attributed to B12 deficiency and has not done a trial of EOD can not know if they would benefit and no one can legitimately tell them they will not.
Further if they have not done a trial of injecting more frequency than EOD up to 4+ times a day they can not know if they would benefit and no one can legitimately tell them they will not because there has been no testing with regards to frequency. The only testing is done by individuals.
B6 in the form of P-5-P is the preferred form of B6 and risks associated with taking other forms is not applicable. B6 deficiency is a diagnosis that is seldom made so it is thought to be rare.
If I do not take 100 mg orally of P-5-P than I experience peripheral nephropathy.
Toxicol In Vitro . 2017 Oct;44:206-212.
doi: 10.1016/j.tiv.2017.07.009. Epub 2017 Jul 14.
The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function
Misha F Vrolijk 1 , Antoon Opperhuizen 2 , Eugène H J M Jansen 3 , Geja J Hageman 4 , Aalt Bast 4 , Guido R M M Haenen 4
• PMID: 28716455
• DOI: 10.1016/j.tiv.2017.07.009
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, >50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown. In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested. Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
I choose to use "Simple Supplement" in lieu of a B complex as it includes the B vitamins in the preformed form and others as well. It was designed for autism which is a neurological disorder. It is very effective for me.
In the last 7 months I have experienced healing from past injuries. They hurt more at first and now the pain is gone; all dental work, 28 stitches in wrist, 12 stitches and pin in thumb, torn ligament in foot, jaw pain, pain in shoulders and an injury to my big toe. These injuries happened 25+- years ago.
Inexplicably the nitrogen bubbles that crack when I do lunges have all but disappeared.
That is very interesting wizard 6787 that it made pain from old injuries go away. I have been in several motorcycle accidents a rollover Volkswagen accident. I couldn't walk for about 3 and 1/2 years without the use of canes. My back hurts extremely bad every vertebrae from head to toe. I would not be exaggerating if I said I was a female version of Evel Knievel. I have hit the pavement many times. And the pain throughout my body is really incredible. I've also had four abdominal surgeries and have nerve damage from a dog attack. If it could help all those things I would be very very amazed and grateful. I'm going to look for the supplements. You all know so much. I don't even know what P5P is. Is it a name brand?
I was experiencing what the above describes with every other day injections including hemochromatosis. Only when I started twice daily injections did I see improvement. I will give this a more thorough read.
Thanks, Wiscguy. I will need to print it out to read properly.
Having recently unexpectedly been found to have calcification of arteries - at 65 years old - I have been looking for links to B12 deficiency, low folate or ferritin, osteoporosis of the spine etc. Hard work. Maybe just due to having calcium/D3 tablets for the osteoporosis, rather than just oily capsules of D3. Or a link with low folate - raised homocysteine can be a precursor of heart disease. Unfortunately, my homocysteine was not tested for quite a long time after low folate addressed, at which stage it was declared "normal".
"Oxidative stress" - the strange overlapping loud yawns; like a goldfish out of water ? Still find that this is a problem, mainly when doing too much thinking, reading, listening, looking, walking -( no longer a multitasker )- in an airless busy area, such as a consultant's waiting room or a supermarket. I think quite often mistaken by others as a Tourette's tic - makes other patients/ customers in the queue jump, catch my eye, then smile. I smile back. I think due to not having the oxygen available to supply both brain and heart sometimes. Incredibly tiring later. At worst, cost was a guaranteed 3 hours sleep on the sofa as soon as able. Now manageable without a nap.
B12 injections have been and are used to relieve nerve pain by direct site injection.
Prior to GP finding B12 deficiency, I would experience a sudden and unexpected shooting pain upward through my foot (Pricklefoot) that would make my eyes water immediately. I just had to grit my teeth till it went. It felt like I'd jumped off a high wall with no shoes on, straight onto a hedgehog. Or at least that is how I would have described it. It could happen while standing, or sitting down, at any time. Not often enough to bother a doctor with and soon gone. Nerves certainly.
This was one of the few symptoms that disappeared completely and never returned once, after B12 injections started seven years ago. Good.
Thanks, Technoid. I printed this out, read it, highlighted sections, and took this to my GP who was very impressed - but still insistent on statins. I am still trying to get my head around this recent news.
Stuck on a very simple question: calcification of heart arteries - is that the same thing as atherosclerosis ? Isn't one chalk and one fat ? All the booklets talk about cholesterol, lipids, triglycerides - but none have mentioned calcification.
No but arterial plaque calcification can occur in later stages of atherosclerosis as soft plaque calcifies. Calcified plaque is more stable and in fact Statins calcify existing plaque so when taking statins, CAC score might actually go up, which might be unexpected.
WiscGuy, does what you have cause any walking issues?
I was an avid walker, who would bounce up and down steps before the b12 deficiency took its hold.
I have no atrophy yet my legs never returned. I now use a cane and even with that usually have to stop after ten steps and regroup mentally. Standing maybe two minutes is my maximum as well.
At the site of a very old ruptured disk at lumbar 5 - sacral 1, an impingement damaged the nerve so that I basically have no use of the main calf muscles in my left leg. That of course interferes with walking and prevents running. I thought the involved muscles were improving, but recently started physical therapy, which involves exercises of those specific muscles, and was surprised to find how little strength, almost none, I have with that muscle.
I should add that I suspect that this nerve at L5/S1, which had been at the position of the disk rupture for at least a decade, was already compromised, so when I became deficient in B12, it was more susceptible to demyelination or other damage associated with B12 deficiency. But it's just a guess.
That is the exact position where I have damage as well. I had many falls when the b12 deficiency was becoming more and more serious & not diagnosed. It was a huge sign as I never had balance issues in my life. Foot drops started in this period, even on the bike. No one told me, I just happened to buy some of my gynaecological scans after sepsis, and saw that a radiologist had noted the spinal damage.
But then again damage can come at that location simply due to wear and tear so who knows.
If you get any more insights, I would love to hear.
I started physical therapy in 2012, when I suddenly one morning lost use of those calf muscles. I had left side sciatica at the same time, which made operating the clutch very painful, and I stopped going to physical therapy, which I now see was a big mistake, and to make matters worse, I didn't resume physical therapy until just a couple of weeks ago. Based on the functioning I lost, at least in part because I didn't treat loss of muscle use with timely physical therapy, I would suggest that if it is possible for you, get physical therapy to regain to the extent possible any loss of function (eg, drop foot).
B12 works hand in hand with folate (B9). I find I need to supplement with a daily 5mg of folic acid - started by consultant when he had recovered me from near death due to B12 deficiency. I have tried reducing the dose and it causes problems so I am back on 5mg and doing well. Some may get enough folate from their diet if its high in green veg and/or beans but not me.
Hence if the B12 has been increased its likely the folic acid will also need to be increased and reduced again if the B12 is reduced.
As I'm fed up with life I'd like to point out there are two people in this thread (other than the thread starter) asking their own questions about vitamins esp b1, and they got answered! (Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were answered!).I My point is in a thread about vitamins I simply asked should someone injecting b12 also take b1 and folic acid? But no one replied. And when days later I posted again asking why no one reolied, I got told no one replied as it's considered rude to ask your own questions in someone else's thread. They took the time to reply to tell me off but still wouldn't answer my basic quick question.. Although as other people asked in this thread and got answers, it must be just me. Yes mum died in the summer, my life, and I'm seriously fed up so take things personally, but in this case it's hard not to.
I had sciatic nerve pain on my left side all the way from the lower back to the knee at 22. A physician assistant told me it maybe was piriformis but others told me it was sciatica. Everyone was so surprised because I was so young and after six injections in the span of three days of anti-inflammatory medicine and vitamin - I do not the specific amount or kind - I did not recover.
I was lying, face down on my bed, for THREE MONTHS. I was finally able to sit, stand, and walk around with just a little bit of pain. Even now I have to lie down sometimes because the nerve pain flair up after sitting too long.
Maybe it was because I did not move much and sat long periods of time that I ended up like that. I asked the doctor that diagnosed me with PA if low b12 levels for a decade was the cause of the sciatic nerve pain and she said, "I don't know. Maybe?"
My sciatica was nowhere near as severe as yours, but it was still far from fun. About the time that I had sciatica, I read that carrying a wallet in a back pocket might cause or exacerbate sciatica, and to this day I carry my wallet in a front pocket.
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