B12 patches

[Margaret-S]

Hi, I forgot to ask in my previous post if the Hydroxocbalomin or Methylcobalamin are the best.

Margaret

[fbirder]

They are equally useless.

People have done studies on B12 patches. But the B12 molecule was too large to get across the skin - with two exceptions.

You can put an electric current across the patch and the deeper layers of the skin, or you can make the patch out of dozens of microneedles, each of them filled with B12.

The glowing reviews you'll read on Amazon just go to show how powerful the placebo effect can be.

[Margaret-S in reply to fbirder]

O dear, that wasn't what I wanted to hear...although over the past years I've been sure that the B12 5000mg Vie patches did actually make a difference...even when I had forgot I was wearing one. Thankyou for your reply. Wouldn't the seller's on Amazon be running the risk of legal action if they knowingly put out wrong information? Things like that are usually pretty well watched by the appropriate watchdogs I would have thought? Any ideas?

[fbirder in reply to Margaret-S]

Oh, they are careful. They don't make any false claims for them (well, not any more). They will say that their patch contains 1000 mcg of B12. And they probably do, as, if bought in bulk, 1000 mcg of B12 costs about 1/3 of a cent. Then they will say that B12 is important for nerves, blood cells, energy, etc. Which it is. What they won't say is that their patch is good for anything.

One of the suppliers on Amazon did make a claim about the wonders their patch would perform. I reported them to the Advertising Standards Authority, who told them to remove that bit.

But they don't need to make extravagant claims, their reviewers do it for them.

[27Protons in reply to fbirder]

Do you know what B vitamins or other vitamins/minerals for that matter can be absorbed via patches? As i have found the concept confusing (I'm surprised there isn't a sticky on this forum about it) particularly how the patches weight less than the nutrients they meant to contain - patchworksuk.com/faqs/ ?

As I think the need for the other B vitamins for people with vitamin b12 deficiency is over looked especially in the case absorption problems since autoimmune atrophic gastritis probably causes hypochlorhydria too.

I'm currently trying a liposomal liquid b complex on top of self injecting b12 as I suspect I can't absorb B vitamins from tablets.

[fbirder in reply to 27Protons]

Achlorhydria should not affect the ability to absorb other B Vitamins, with the exception of folate (B9) from food. But absorption of folate from tablets will be unaffected.

That PatchWorks FAQ gave me a good laugh that I really needed this morning. What a load of tommyrot.

You will notice that their answer to the question "Does it work" is just 'reviews' from satisfied 'customers'. If they really worked then they could link to the science that shows they work.

They whole thing is just risible.

[fbirder in reply to fbirder]

Hahaha! I've just seen their nonsense about the first pass effect saying how great it is that their patches bypass the liver.

Vitamin B6 needs to be converted to its active form, PLP, in the liver.

Other B vitamins are not metabolised in the liver.

[27Protons in reply to Margaret-S]

It isn't just B12 in these patches though it might be one of the other B vitamins in them people are absorbing which explains the reviews - I wonder if Fbirder might know what B vitamin can be absorbed via patches.

[fbirder in reply to 27Protons]

The patches I looked at on Amazon just contained B12.

It's very unlikely that you can get other B vitamins to absorb through the skin. For a chemical to be able to be absorbed across the skin it needs to be small and fairly fat soluble. B12 is very large and water soluble.

The image below shows a B12 molecule next to a nicotine molecule (which can cross the skin). You can immediately see that B12 is much larger. All the red blobs on the B12 molecule are oxygen atoms. And they tend to make a molecule less fat soluble. There are none on nicotine.

The other B vitamins are all smaller than B12 - roughly the same size as nicotine. But they are all water soluble, so will not cross the skin barrier easily.

B12 and nicotine structures.

[wedgewood]

I tried them and found them a total waste of time . Actually cheaper to self -inject , and then you can be 100% sure that you will absorb the B12 .

[Margaret-S in reply to wedgewood]

Thankyou for your reply. Where do you source your self injections from? I would love to get them. Unfortunately I'm only on my pension so if it's too expensive I'm afraid its likely not possible 😩

[fbirder in reply to Margaret-S]

If you buy the ampoules 10 at a time they're about €1 per ampoule. Plus P&P (no idea what that might be post-Brexit). If you buy 100 at a time they are about €0.61 per ampoule. And the P&P should be the same.

Last time I ordered needles and syringes it came to £21 for 100 syringes, 100 needles for withdrawals and 100 needles for injecting. So each injection costs about 2p.

[wedgewood in reply to Margaret-S]

B12 single use ampoules are obtainable from German online pharmacies , which are strictly controlled by the German health authorities . Unlike in the U.K. , the harmless ampoules can be obtained there without a prescription . Before we left the single market on January 1st , they were easily obtainable ., but now the U.K. tax authorities insist that they pay to register for U.K. VAT . This causes extra work and expense , so many will not now ship to U.K. But we have a couple of possibilities . A packet of 10 usually costs about €9.00 , but if a courier is used , that cost is €9.89 .no matter how many are purchased .

I’ve just checked on those sites that we use , and they only have 10 x 10 packets available . Son100 ampoules . They will no doubt get more single packets in stock . I will send you the information anyhow . I reckon , as I buy in bulk - 100 of everything , an injection costs about £1.60 . The ampoules have a use -by date of just over 2 years . I now inject once a week , but we all need different regularity of injection . Some people manage on a 3 monthly injection , 2 monthly , monthly , fortnightly etc etc .

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Where to obtain requirements for self-injecting VitaminB12,for Pernicious Anemia patients /B12 deficient patients .

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Certain German online pharmacies can supply U.K. with B12 ampoules , because no prescription is required in Germany for this harmless vitamin , which cannot be overdosed , no matter what your doctor might tell you .

Since Brexit on January 1st when we withdrew from the single market , it has become more difficult for online Pharmacies in Germany to supply us, and some pharmacies have given up . So we now have to search afresh . Here are some that will deliver to the U.K. These pharmacies are controlled and inspected by the German health authorities , and are therefore safe sites .

bodfeld-Apotheke.de Site is in German , so you may need to use a translation app or use Google Chrome . Courier charges €9.89, no matter how many you buy

apohealth.de You can get this site in English by clicking on the American flag on the top right of 1st page . Postal charges .

Needles , syringes , swabs and sharps boxes ( for disposal of needles ) can be obtained from

medisave.co.uk

Needles and syringes can also be obtained from

exchangesupplies.org

I use Rotexmedica B12 depot. These are single use ampoules 1mg x 1ml Hydroxocobalamin, as is used in the NHS .

[Margaret-S in reply to wedgewood]

Thankyou for the info. I've checked it out on the apohealth.de site. The box of 100 ampoules are out of stock but they have yellow boxes of 10. VitB12 Depot. Hydroxocbalomin £12.41 which is a good price for me if I order 2 boxes. Has anyone on here tried those and would you recommend them?

[wedgewood in reply to Margaret-S]

I’ve used those Hevert B12 depot in the past . They are very good . I changed to Rotexmedica because they are cheaper and also because they are 1mg x 1ml while Hevert are 1 mg x 2ml . So Rotexmedica have less liquid to inject ,but the same strength . So do order 2ml syringes .for them. They are ideal for injecting Rotexmedica , which you could order the next time . I expect that apohealth is getting lots of orders from U.K. , as so many of the German online pharmacies are not shipping to U.K. since Brexit . Best wishes .

[Margaret-S in reply to wedgewood]

Thankyou for the helpful reply. I'll have a look at Rotexmedica before trying to order. Best wishes to you too 🙂

[Lurcher-lady in reply to Margaret-S]

I too am on the state pension Margaret and luckily it’s very doable. Go for it, you will save more money than you’re wasting on patches, tablets etc