I have been reading more but not sure how much I am optaining lol. So I have a question, maybe quite a few and will try to simplfy them.
Is there common tie between Graves disease (thyroid disease in general?)
It seems some people say they have PA with Pareital cell antibodies alone, is this true?
Can you order your own b12 injections? I think after reading a bit my symptoms pretty well match up with PA and AIAG. I just dont think I have enough information to get a official diagnosis (which I feel like would be my peace of mind and pass card for b12 injections/ easier time with doctors without them telling me I need to go see a psychologist haha). Do I even need this? Its hard to let go of, considering I dont sleep weel and feel quite fatigued everyday (thyroid quite recently I believe-and had to updose quite a bit on armour) and with the help of God, and all you wonderful people sharing your wealth of info and articles in every group I’ve added myself too (not much help from doctors).
Here is an organization someone else share and I thought it might he beneficial, if you havent seen the website before.
So from this, I’m curious, do any off you look at your cbcs? Specifically at MCV, MCHC, MCH? There’s a section on this website that says if these things are in lower range it indicates IRon deficiency, nut if higher end, it indicates b12.
studies show a 40% chance of someone with PA going on to develop hashimotos and the figures seem to vary between 10-40% for the other way round.
Don't know about studies relating to graves and PA (possibly because I've not really looked into it) - however there is a very high chance of people with one auto-immune condition developing another so ...
The trouble with parietal cell antibodies test is that it isn't very specific which means there is quite a high probability of a false positive - test giving a positive when you don't actually have GPCA - this is because the test method can pick up other chemicals in your blood as well as GPCA (and that's one reason why tests don't start off with a zero range)
However, it is also true that the test for IFA is very insensitive - and gives false negatives between 40-60% of the time depending on the exact test method.
This means that getting a formal diagnosis of PA with currently used tests is extremely difficult. The standards in the UK refer to IFAB-negative PA as a result.
To be honest it is probably easier to rule out other sources of B12 absorption problems until you are left with PA.
Not clear if you actually have a diagnosis of B12 deficiency - tests would be (in US) - serum/holoT, with homocysteine and MMA being used ass clarifying tests if the first pair don't give a definitive answer.
If you have a series of serum b12/holoT tests over time showing a downward trend that would be an indicator of an absorption problem.
Unfortunately the symptoms of B12 deficiency overlap with a large number of other conditions and I personally wouldn't recommend jumping straight to injections unless you are sure you have an absorption problem - I'd also advise caution in use of high dose oral supplements.
Because there isn't a good test for B12 deficiency - and results of existing tests get very difficult to interpret after loading shots most of us go by symptoms and don't bother with continuous blood tests post loading doses. Basing maintenance treatment on results of blood tests isn't recommended by standards in the UK anyway.
A full blood count is a useful test for confirming if Macrocytic anamia - a symptom of PA and where the anaemia in the name comes from - but macrocytic anaemia isn't actually one of the first symptoms to appear for many people and isn't present in 25% of people who first present with PA.
Interpreting a full blood test can be a bit of an art - and it really needs to be done in a full context - which would look at other indicators of iron status as well as vitamin status. If your blood tests show MCV, MCH, MCHC in the middle of the normal range but RDW is high that could indicate that you have both macrocytic (B12/folate) and microcytic (iron) anaemia going on at the same time.
I added a photo of recorded labs levels but wasnt sure how to flip it so its not on its side.
It sounds like you have done alot of research in regards to hashimotos and PA. I haven’t researched much in this area myself except for reading a few articles and asking around/ reading past posts on the subject and it seems that I have found two things, the first is that there are a number of people with Graves who have B12 issues and I’m fnding more people with Graves that also have high TPO and TG antibodies, including myself, who were told that they had both Graves and Hashimotos (also including myself) but I havent discovered why this is yet and dont have specific numbers as to how many people but I found this out yhrough grups such as this and FB.
It sounds like that would he a good next step (checking Mma and Homocystein). I havent been officially diagnosed with a b12 defciency, but as you can see (if you can read it sorry) I have been watching my labs for a long time and have been wondering about the RDW for some time and wondering/ searching because it had been high until Jan 2018. But have had Iron issues for many years prior.
Will be continuing to look for answers. Do you by any chance have any good links on hand for understanding these better?
Havent recently checked B12 hecuase I had been on supplements 4/3/18 to around 12/19/18. I picked back up looking into it because i still seem to have alot of symptoms and lately after not taking supplements my symptoms seem to be more frequent and obnoxious. My thyroid levels crashed recently as well too and have been in constant fatigue. so I am looking for answers.
In answer to Macrocrytic Anemia, (I have never heard this term that I can remember so it may not be as I thought. I can go off off symptoms but as you mentioned before, alot of symptoms overlap each other.
The B12 levels above don't imply B12 is the obvious candidate - though the RDW does look as if it has been a problem and the ferritin levels are definitely indicative of an iron problem.
I'm not a thyroid expert but the results look more like underactive than overactive but auto-immune thyroid problems - hashis and graves can have odd episodes so ...
The results above seem to be over a year old as well so things may have change.
Iron tends to be the first absorption problem to manifest in thyroid problems.
In relation to thyroid and PA there is this article on thyrogastric syndrome
These are old as I seem to only be able to share one picture. The page is double sided and newer results on back. You are correct, these do show hypo thyroid state. I had been diagnosed in 2007 being severly hyper/ Graves and stayed this way even after having the RAI treatment in 2010. I normalized 2015 (never saw the results) and 2016 was hypo with extreme paranoia, fatigue, and insomnia. Tested for TPO (>900) and TG (1) on 12/20/2017, TSI (20.50 H) 5/25/18 and GPCA (96.9 H) 6/15/2018
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