Does anyone know about SIBO, osteoporosis and B12 deficiency ?

[Cherylclaire]

Breath Test for SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) result produced this from Haematology :

"....results......suggestive of a quick transit to the colon or small bowel bacterial overgrowth which would explain her elevated MMA."

.....Finally, something ! Almost sounds like a diagnosis to me.

Not sure what the next step is as I've been signed off by haematologist, so going back to GP.

Haven't stopped B12 injections or multivitamin and minerals, as SIBO rob you of vitamins B12, A, D, E & (rarely) K.

Also unsure if SIBO came after B12 deficiency, due to lack of acidity allowing bacteria to flourish where not welcome, and whether it was the cause of my osteoporosis of the spine (eating my Vitamin D) ?

Seems that there are 3 aspects to treatment:

1: Find and eradicate the cause

2: Replace vitamin deficiencies

3: Treat SIBO - usually with antibiotics (with varying degrees of success)

....so it's not over yet, but at last, I seem to be getting somewhere. Which is just as well, as I'm no longer getting any money !

Can anyone tell me more about this ? What to ask GP for in terms of tests etc. to determine cause * ? What antibiotics will hamper my recent B12 progress - and so need to avoid ?

* One of the causes listed is "immune deficiency: abnormal antibodies or T-cell response": can anyone explain that to me ?

[Gambit62 Administrator]

Don't know if this article will answer all your questions or if you have already seen it

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

the asterisked remark just says that it is associated with auto-immune conditions - which can also affect t-cell response (not entirely sure but think T-cells are part of the immune system so would be part of the autoimmune response - certainly crop up in relation to auto-immune thyroiditis as one of the mechanisms involved in damage to thyroid.

Suggest that you speak to a pharmacist about B12 and antibiotics - there are a few you should avoid but can't remember off the top of my head exactly what they are - they should be aware of which ones are likely to interact with different conditions - much more likely they will be aware than GP.

Don't think there is really a need for more tests - more about treatment now.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Gambit62]

Thanks Gambit62 - good idea, I'll talk to pharmacist today, then it won't cut into my 10 minute allowance with GP next week ! I do remember GP saying that it is quite difficult to treat SIBO, that it often returns and that antibiotics used need to be altered due to mounting resistance.

The only problem that I can forsee now is that the SIBO could be treated as the only reason for B12 deficiency. At least now that I'm self-injecting, there is no need to worry about having to convince GP otherwise.

Found a reference to T-cells in Martyn Hooper's book: couldn't quite get my dog-brain around it yesterday, but will try to concentrate more on that today. Along with the article above. Thanks for that too.

[GGourmet]

I was tested by a gastroenterologist for SIBO. Sadly negative but he did say that when tested positive one of the treatments can be antibiotics to strip out the overgrowth plus following up with probiotics. I was put on Symprove probiotic and within 24 I was pain free and over the course of 6 weeks all other symptoms have gone.

I understand that SIBO is a condition that can easily re occur, esp if there are diverticula in the small intestine. I would have expected on the back of the diagnosis that your GP or at least the haematologist would have referred you to a gastroenterologist for the follow up treatment.

My condition appears caused by excess antibiotic usage over 10 years due to serious health issues.

Positive Methane and or Hydrogen measured as an increase of 20 or more within the first 2 hours of glucose / fructilose intake is often regarded as the positive For SIBO. But, digestive speed makes that a difficult diagnosis as you are looking for overgrowth in the terminal ileum which is just before the bowel, upon entering the bowel Hydrogen and or Methane should increase significantly anyway, in a healthy large intestine.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to GGourmet]

Hi GGourmet , strange that antibiotics can be both cure and catalyst ! Glad the probiotics worked for you.

I think the GP may well refer me on to a gastroenterologist on Tuesday when I see her, but we haven't had much luck to date in that field : previously been referred to 2; both did nothing at all - and took about 10 minutes to decide not to bother with me, which is a bit disheartening when you have waited 5/6 months for an appointment ... still, third time lucky.

Trouble seems to be that gastroenterology can't go that far down and bowel people can't go that far up, so no-one wants to do the middle bit !

More than anything, I'm hoping for a cause. Failing that, a bit more detail regarding results. Also hoping that someone keeps a check on my rising MMA levels, since this is not a test that GP can request locally, although she did try a few times.

[GGourmet in reply to Cherylclaire]

It’s good that you have the referral. I wish you the best and reading what’s on here will hopefully mean you have an educated conversation. I wish you the best.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to GGourmet]

By the way, GGourmet

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Cherylclaire]

....Having a "blip" in recovery today and pressed the wrong button !

Meant to say:

" By the way, GGourmet , I have my results chart: hydrogen levels went from 13ppm to 140ppm (at 120 mins), which GP was told was "suggestive of quick transit to colon - or SIBO" - so seeing gastroenterologist and metabolics expert next, as someone needs to work out which !

Anyway quite pleased that some progress has been made, and either of these answers could explain deficiencies and why they would be difficult to rectify."

....there; said it !

Will let you know of any developments.

[GGourmet in reply to Cherylclaire]

The significant increase may be fast transit, as 120 mins is the standard measure for arriving at the terminal ileum just before entering the bowel where reading go up very high.

Mine went up at 2 hours but determined negative for SIBO.

Here’s hoping you get the right decision.

Mine however is not so great. Poss Pituitary Tumor. I find out on Thursday.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to GGourmet]

I am thinking of you, GGourmet , and hoping that this turns out not to be the case.

Will have all things crossed for you on Thursday: fingers, toes, legs, arms, eyes, references, purposes.......

in the meantime, focus very hard on other possibilities, and know that I'm sending you best wishes.

love Cheryl

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Cherylclaire]

Hi GGourmet - still thinking of you.. x

[KimberinUS]

Sibo is a chronic infection. In the event of chronic infection, ferritin levels will be higher than usual for that person, as the body attempts to segregate it away from the infection. Only ferritin levels above 100 mean anything.

A full iron panel (when not taking any iron for 5 days) needs to be done to check serum iron and %saturation rate. Optimal serum iron is 110 in thyroid issue folks and %saturation should be 20-40%, with anything lower being concerning.

Additionally when recieving b12 injections, stores of folate AND iron need to be optimal.

Low serum iron can cause racing heart, low energy, lack of motivation, brain fog, ect.

niddk.nih.gov/health-inform...

dermnetnz.org/topics/iron-d...

I hope this helps. Best of luck.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support]

Hi KimberinUS - yes, very helpful. I'll ask the GP tomorrow.

I couldn't work out why, with the every other day injections and folate tablet every day (and in my daily multivits and minerals), my hair sometimes still falls out, gums bleed fairly often and corners of my mouth are split and sore (which I thought had gone completely)- although minor symptoms, these ones just make you look - and feel - so deficient, don't they ?

On a much more positive note, since self injecting I'm generally doing more, feeling more energetic and sleeping a lot less.