Hi all,
I have been reading about the many health benefits of Cordyceps but i cannot find any literature about the implications for pernicious anemia. I have read that it can activate the immune system and not sure what that means for PA. Any insight or information would be helpful.
Thanks!
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Hi,
Afraid I don;t have any direct experience of Cordyceps. On the whole I'm sceptical about the claimed 'magical' properties of things like this, although it's arguably as natural as many of the vitamins that we need and take daily, so they are always worth investigating.
I always find that blogs that are selling the thing they are making claims about are best avoided though 
A quick search found this: webmd.com/vitamins-suppleme...
which includes this statement:
"“Auto-immune diseases” such as multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus, SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), or other conditions: Cordyceps might cause the immune system to become more active. This could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. If you have one of these conditions, it’s best to avoid using cordycep"
And I'd say that PA could count as one of these auto immune diseases (possibly not all B12 deficiencies, but PA in particularly).
Given that in PA it is the immune system itself attacking Intrinsic Factor that causes the B12 deficiency, it might be best to be very wary for fear of making things worse.
Maybe others have more personal experience though.
Gavin
Hi,
I am not into "fad" things. I too am very skeptical, however, any supplement that I take, and there are many i read extensively on. I am an avid bodybuilder and fitness devotee. Anything that helps my performance i like to add to my regimen. I know a few of my friends take coryceps and they feel it helps with energy. There are also antidepressant effects. There are very good reasons for adding it as a supplement. However, there could be one main reason not to and that is the immune system effects.
I saw that webmd article but it seems to be the only one out there. Thanks for posting.
Hi ljmulledy. Never heard of Cordyceps but my first thought is that anything that 'activates' the immune system might not be a good thing for anybody with an autoimmune condition (PA included). Autoimmune disease occurs in cases where the autoimmune system has gone into 'overdrive' (for want of a better word), which causes antibodies to increase and attack the various parts of the body, depending on the autoimmune disease (in the case if PA, attacks and destroys the parietal cells - responsible for producing intrinsic factor).
I did a quick search and this is what I found:
“Auto-immune diseases” such as multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus, SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), or other conditions: Cordyceps might cause the immune system to become more active. This could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. If you have one of these conditions, it’s best to avoid using cordyceps.
Bleeding disorders: Cordyceps might slow blood clotting. Taking cordyceps might increase the risk of bleeding in people with bleeding disorders.
Surgery: Using cordyceps might increase the risk of bleeding during surgery. Stop taking cordyceps 2 weeks before surgery.
Cirdyceps is contraindicated when taking some medications, including (but not limited to) steroids, such as prednisilone and autoimmune suppressants).
Here's a link where you can find mor information:
m.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ing...
So...to your question...not a good idea for anyone with an autoimmune condition...including PA, bleeding disorders (including heavy menstrual bleeding), pre/post surgery...as a minimum.
May be more contraindications but no time to search further 🤔😉.
Hope this helps 👍
See my response below. I read everything that I could find on Cordyceps for my dissertation using online and all the resources of Lincoln University. I do not remember ANY paper of any authority that says that Cordyceps over-stimulates the immune system.
My daughter has Rheumatoid Arthritis and has taken Cordyceps. It did NOT cause a flare-up. I think there is a difference between stimulating an under-active immune system and over-stimulating. Cordyceps is more likely to bring the immune system under better regulation.
I must point out that the herb was at one time reserved for Chinese Emperors. If it caused problems the Herbalists heads would have rolled. The weasel words in the site that you quote are "Cordyceps might cause.....". This is pure unsubstantiated speculation. The herb has been used for centuries. It is not an unknown entity. (Only unknown to those who post speculation without research)
Thank you for that Jonathan.
I'm pleased that cordyceps has been beneficial for your daughter. But I'm sure you would agree...this cannot be extrapolated and used as evidence to suggest that cordyceps will be efficacious or safe for all who may want to take it - especially in the presence of other underlying health conditions or where there is the potential for adverse reactions with other medications.
I did make it clear in my reply above that I was presenting information from webmed, rather than speculating, and the contraindications quoted therein also appear elsewhere...
Here's more, for instance, from Up-to-date - reference site containing information about herbal supplements/drugs:
Theoretical Cautions and Contraindications Use with caution in individuals with allergies to molds or fungi. In addition, based on pharmacologic activity, use is contraindicated in individuals receiving MAO inhibitors (Xu, 1988).
May alter platelet aggregation (based on pharmacologic activity of some components) (Hammerschmidt, 1980). Based on pharmacologic activity, this herb may be contraindicated in individuals with active bleeding (eg, peptic ulcer, intracranial bleeding). Use with caution in individuals with a history of bleeding, hemostatic disorders, or drug-related hemostatic problems. Use with caution in individuals taking anticoagulant medications, including warfarin, aspirin, aspirin-containing products, NSAIDs, or antiplatelet agents (eg, ticlopidine, clopidogrel, dipyridamole). Discontinue use prior to dental or surgical procedures (generally at least 14 days before). Use with caution in individuals with diabetes or receiving antihyperglycemic drugs or insulin, due to possible hypoglycemic properties. Use with caution in individuals using immunosuppressants.
General Warnings Use all herbal supplements with extreme caution in children <2 years of age and in pregnancy or lactation. Some herbs are contraindicated in pregnancy or lactation; make sure to observe warnings. Use with caution in individuals on medication and with pre-existing medical conditions. Always review for potential herb-drug interactions (HDIs) and other warnings. Large and prolonged doses may increase the potential for adverse effects. Herbs may cause transient adverse effects such as nausea, vomiting, and GI distress due to a variety of chemical constituents. Use caution in individuals having known allergies to plants.
Theoretical Interactions Anticoagulant medications (including warfarin), aspirin or aspirin-containing products, NSAIDs, antiplatelet agents (eg, ticlopidine, clopidogrel, dipyridamole), MAO inhibitors, corticosteroids, immunosuppressants (cyclophosphamide), antidiabetic agents, sedatives
Concomitant administration may reduce drug-induced nephrotoxicity.
The site is fully referenced with scientific research papers - here's the link:
cursoenarm.net/UPTODATE/con...
And more:
Nootriment.com states:
No robust scientific studies have been conducted to understand the full effect of cordyceps on the human body and most information on side effect comes from user reports.
Cordyceps has been observed to affect the immune system so supplementation is not recommended for those using prescription drugs that target the immune system (such as immunosuppressants). Additionally, cordyceps may impact blood glucose levels and should be used with caution by those who suffer from diabetes or low blood sugar.
There are many other links warning of potential contraindications, including ones from those who sell cordyceps.
Dr Brian D Lawenda (Integrative Oncologist), also raises issues to do with the use of cordyceps in general, and in autoimmune conditions in particular.
Yen (1992) states that cordyceps is 'contraindicated in cases of bleeding'.
The purpose of the reply is to flag to the forum that cordyceps may be contraindicated in certain medical conditions...and that there may be drug interactions with quite a long list of medications (see med web et al).
I'm not saying that cordyceps will not be of benefit to some people...but, as always (and as with all herbs, vitamins, supplements)...medical advice should be taken before adding these to any treatment regime. Especially in the presence of underlying medical conditions and where other medications are being taken.
For anybody who might be interested, here's a research paper on the potential benefits of cordyceps:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK9...
And, here it comes, as always, take appropriate medical advice before supplementing 😉
👍
FoggyYour response quotes sources that are replete with the words "may" and "might". These words are weasel words. They signal speculation.
If you want serious references and to properly inform yourself about Cordycpes - please read the following (as I have):
Anderson J.P (2010) CORDYCEPS "Cordyceps for World Records" personalhealthfacts.com/cor...
Bartram T (1998) Bartrams Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine Constable and Robinson London
Chen J et al Morphological and genetic characteristics of a cultivated Codyceps sinensis fungus and its polysaccharide component posessing antioxident property in H22 tumour-bearing mice. Life Sciences Vol. 78 (23) pp 2742-8
Chen S. et al (2010) Effect of Cs4 (Cordyceps sinensis) on exercise performance in healthy older subjects: a double blind, placebo controlled trial. Jopurnal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. Vol.16 (5), pp 585-90
Chevallier A. (2000) Encyclopedia of Herbal Medicine Dorling and Kindersly London
Ernest C.P. et al (2004) Effects of a Commercial Herbal-Based Formula on Exercise Performance in Cyclists Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise American College of Sports Medicine
Guowei D. et al (2001) Cs-4 Improves Steady-State Bioenergy Status in Mouse Liver The Journal Of Alternative And Complementary Medicine Volume 7 Number 3 pp 231-240
Halpern G. (2007) Healing Mushrooms: Effective Treatments for Today’s Illnesses Square One Publishers Garden City Park New York USA
Holliday J. C. et al (2004a) Analysis of Quality and Techniques for Hybridization of Medicinal Fungus Cordyceps sinensis (Berk.) Sacc. (Ascomycetes) International Journal of Medical Mushrooms, Vol 6 pp 151-164
Holliday and Cleaver (2004b) On the Trail of The Yak Ancient Cordyceps in the Modern World (Last accessed 26th April 2011) google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=...
Holliday J. and Cleaver M. (2008) Medicinal Value Of The Caterpillar Fungi Species of the Genus Cordyceps (Fr.) Link (Ascomycetes It). A Review. International Journal of Medical Mushrooms 10(3):219-234
Hobbs C. (1995) Medicinal Mushrooms: An Exploration of Tradition, Healing, & Culture. Botanica Press Summertown Tennessee USA
Jia-Shi Zhu et al (1998a) The Scientific Rediscovery Of a Precious Ancient Chinese Herbal Regimen: Cordyceps Sinensis Part I The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine Volume 4 Number 2 pp 289-303
Jia-Shi Zhu et al (1998b) The Scientific Rediscovery Of a Precious Ancient Chinese Herbal Regimen: Cordyceps Sinensis Part II The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine Volume 4 Number 4 pp 429-457
Jian Yong Wu; Qiao Xia Zhang; Po Hong Leung (2007) Inhibitory effects of ethyl acetate extract of Cordyceps sinensis mycelium on various cancer cells in culture and B16 melanoma in C57BL/6 mice Phytomedicine Vol 14 P 43-49
Johnston N. (2005) Medicinal Mushrooms Cuts off Prostate Cancer Cells’ Blood Supply Drugs Discovery Today Vol.10 Issues 23-24 P 1584
Kazuki Nakamura et al (1999) Inhibitory Effect of Cordyceps sinensis on Spontaneous Liver Metastasis of Lewis Lung Carcinoma and B16 melanoma Cells in Syngeneic Mice Japanese Journal of Pharmacology 1999 Vol. 79. P 335-341
Li S.P., Yang F.Q. & Tsim K.W.K. (2006) Quality control of Cordyceps sinensis, a valued traditional Chinese medicine. Journal of Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Analysis Volume 41 pp1571-1584
Liu Feng and Zheng Xiao (1993) Study of Cordyceps sinensis on Anti-Larangeal Carcinoma. Journal of Norman Bethune University of Medical Science 1993. 19 (1)
Liu Z et al 2010 Protective effect of extract of Cordyceps sinensis in middle cerebral artery occlusion-induced focal cerebral ischemia in rats. Behavioral And Brain Functions: Vol. 6, pp. 61
Menzies-Trull (2003) Herbal Medicine: Keys to Physiomedicalism 1st Ed. Faculty of Physiomedicalism Newcastle Staffs. England
Qiaoxia & Jianyong et al (2004) Induction of HL-60 apoptosis by ethyl acetate extract of Cordyceps sinensis fungal mycelium Life Sciences Vol. 75 pp2911-2919
Porth C.M. (2003) Pathophysiology: Concepts of Altered Health States 7th Ed. Lippincott Williams and Wilkins Philadelphia USA
Tsai YJ; Lin LC; Tsai TH (2010) Pharmacokinetics of adenosine and cordycepin, a bioactive constituent of Cordyceps sinensis in rat. Journal Of Agricultural And Food Chemistry 2010 Apr 28; Vol. 58 (8), pp. 4638-43.
UT Medical Group Inc. 2011 Tripterygium wilfordii EBESCO Publishing Last Reviewed Feb 2011 EBESCO CAM Review Board. (Last Accessed 26th April 2011) healthlibrary.epnet.com/Get...
Valkov N. (2010) Cordyceps: Treating Diabetes, Cancer And Other Illnesses Nathalie Valkov PhD L.Ac San Rafael California
Wang Y. et al (2009) Protection of chronic renal failure by a polysaccharide from Cordyceps sinensis. Fitoterapia Jul; Vol. 81 (5), pp. 397-402
Wood M. (2008) The Earthwise Herbal: A Complete Guide to Old World Medicinal Plants North Atlantic Books Berkley California
Wood M. (2009) The Earthwise Herbal: A Complete Guide to New World Medicinal Plants North Atlantic Books Berkley California
Yoshikawa N. et al (2009) Inhibitory Effect of Cordycepin on Haematogenic Metastasis of B16-F1 Mouse Melanoma Cells Accelerated by Adenosine-5-Diphosphate Anticancer Research Vol.29 3857-3860
Much of the focus has been on the anti-tumour effect of this fungus and on its enhancement of oxygen uptake - but to say that there is no good information about it is just wrong. I suspect that the problem is that much of the research has been done in the East and the lack of respect by the Western medical establishment has been yet another example of its endemic arrogance.
I think the time has come to stop speculation. This is a centuries old and well-researched herb. If provocation of autoimmune reaction happens - as speculated - I suggest the onus of proof falls on those making the speculation rather than asking Herbalists to prove a negative.
Jonathan. Thank you for that...again.
I have no desire to engage in an extended debate on what you refer to as speculation and weasel words, nor were the replies here intended to be a critique or debate on the role (or appropriateness) of herbal remedies...or, for that matter, herbalists.
Please be assured that there is no intention to disparage your knowledge or expertise in this area.
However, the default position for the PAS is that appropriate medical advice should always be sought prior to taking any supplements or herbs...especially where there may be the potential for drug interactions...or where there are other underlying health issues.
Interesting though this has been, we have now strayed far from PA and B12 deficency and as such, reply functions formth is post will now be switched off.
ljmulledy - as per my mail to you, this is no reflection on the appropriateness of your post 😀.
Thank you both! I agree it isn't worth the risk.
An after thought...also avoid in Hashimoto's thyroiditis, cerebral vascular accident (stroke - or if at high risk of having one), if taking Warfrin (or any other form of 'blood thinner'), or in the presence of anyeurism.
And grief...there are probably more...but you get the picture 😉😀
👍
Sorry all, but feel the need to defend the use of medicinal herbs 🙂
I take cordyceps sinensis occasionally for immune support and energy, with no side effects .
Cordyceps is an antioxidant and increases glutathione needed to protect and heal the gut and brain.
I use a UK supplier though, as many Chinese herbs may now be polluted.
I am a believer and user of herbal supplements, There are herbs that i cannot take like peppermint tea which makes my heart beat irregular, licorice causes water retention and my blood pressure to raise. Cordyceps has so many benefits as you mentioned and that's why i was looking into adding it to my regimen. however, i cannot take something that may aggravate my PA.
Hi Polaris. Nothing against medicinal herbs 😀😀.
However, supplements and herbs do often interact with other medications and particular care has to be taken in the presence of underlying medical conditions (as outlined above).
I have found other references to contraindications in respect of cordyceps - see reply to Jonathan above - and am flagging these in the forum simply so that folks are aware and able to take appropriate medical advice before taking this supplement (something I know you would also advocate 😉).
There may be benefits from taking this supplement but, as always, I say take appropriate medical advice first.
👍
Absolutely no disrespect to you Foggy, who is obviously cares deeply and is knowledgeable - I know it's standard practice to recommend medical advice and, as I've already said, herbs ARE very potent so, best seek advice of a qualified herbalist - like Jonathon!
Sorry to say this, but I had to suppress a snort - apart from my very knowledgeable GP many years ago, who thought outside the box & did not resort at the drop of a hat to very potent drugs with dangerous side effects to treat my children, other conventional medical advice since has brought me to the brink of permanent ill health and insanity.
Hi Polaris. Yes, there are issues to do with the way some (far too many) medical practitioners treat (or don't treat) those with PA / B12 deficency. We see it all too often in the forum.
As I'm sure you can appreciate, the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum cannot advocate that forum members abandon conventional Western medicine and turn to herbalists (qualified or not) for treatment.
Having said that, I'm really pleased that you've found something that works for you and your family 😀.
This is why I ask this forum because the people here know more about PA than anyone in the medical community (of course with exceptions). I always trust the information and advice of my felliw members. I am so thankful for this forum and know that it has helped me through sone dark times with PA.
When I did my BSc in Herbal Medicine I chose Codyceps sinensis as the subject of my dissertation. I am very familiar with it. The main thrust of the fungus is to make oxygen more available to the tissues of the body. This has some profound effects on many bodily systems - including enhanced stamina. (It has been used by Chinese athletes to enhance performance) I would have thought that anything that makes oxygen more available would be useful for anyone with any type of anaemia. If it enhances the immune system there may be an indirect effect of enhanced oxygen availability.
Cordyceps also has chemicals called beta-glucans. These are polysaccharides that stimulate the immune Complement System - they also stimulate the Macrophages and NK (Natural Killer) cells. So - yes - it has an effect on the immune system.
Lastly there is a chemical called "Cordycepin" that closely mimics one of the four neucleotides in DNA (Adenosine). However - it is not exactly identical and it appears that cancer cells can incorporate it in error during replication. This screws up the replication. Healthy cells have a repair mechanism, whereas cancer cells do not, so the replication-limiting effect is limited to cancer cells.
This is a very deep subject and the biochemistry could quickly slide beyond the ambit of this site. If you want to open a dialogue on this fascinating subject please PM me. Cordyceps is non-toxic. However - you will have to be careful how you source it. This is a whole subject in its own right.
I found it curious how much the use by Chinese athletes seems to be shouted as "improves performance without drugs".
Seems to me that if a substance is shown to enhance performance, there are two possibilities in the longer term. One is that everyone in the sport(s) concerned will end up taking it. The other is that it will be seen as, and classified as, a performance enhancing drug and banned.
I suggest EPO as one case to consider.
In 1993 the Chinese women's track and field team broke multiple world records. Suspicion fell that they were using performance enhancing drugs. It turned out that they were using Cordyceps. thechinesedoctor.com/was-ch...
I cannot comment on whether this should be allowed or not. That is a value judgement for the individual and the regulating body of the sports. I have a personal opinion - but it is of no more value than anyone else's in this respect.
I can inform you that the fungus is a parasite of a subterranean moth larva. It originates in the high Tibetan plateau where oxygen is scarce. Cordyceps appears to help the larva utilise oxygen and it is possible that the fungus helps the larva to survive to pupation stage. In the process it tamps down the larval immune system to stop the fungus being identified and killed.
What happens next is a bit gruesome. (It does not end well for the larva).
When researching supplements of any kinds I always check to see if there is a listing in examine.com. It is a site that doesn't appear to have a particular axe to grind with regard to individual supplements (it doesn't sell supplements, it sells a book about supplements), and there are always a lot of references to check out if more in-depth information is wanted.
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