Syringes and Needles for Intra Mascular B12 injecions

[Dragon2014]

Hi guys,

I was wondering what syringes and needles are you using for Intra Mascular B12 injections please?

Would you kindly be able to send direct links to such consumable that will be suitable please?

Many thanks

[wedgewood]

I also inject B12 I.M. I use 1ml ampoules.

I use 1 ml Terumo syringe , without needle

I use a long needle to withdrawn the B12 from the ampoules , because the needle can get blunted during withdrawal This is a aTerumo Agani needle

21G X 1 /12 inch

To inject I use a very fine needle .......Terumo Agani again .

25G x 1inch

Also need alcohol wipes ........

Cuttisoft ..

I buy 100 of all the above ... So much cheaper .

And a yellow sharps box for disposal of the needles ( most chemists accept them )

I get all the above from " Medisave .co.uk "

If your ampoules are 2ml then you'll need 2ml syringes .

Hope that this was helpful . You will no doubt get some more replies .

Best wishes .

[Dragon2014 in reply to wedgewood]

Thanks

[Dragon2014 in reply to wedgewood]

Hi wedgewood,

Many thanks for the detailed reply

I have tried to look it up at Medisave.co.uk however I am struggling .

Is there any chance you could send the links to those consumables please ?

Many thanks I would much appreciate it

[wedgewood]

Just put the following reference numbers in the search box , top right

For Syringes BS-01H( £8.05 for 100)

For withdrawing needles ... AN- 2138R (£2.35 for 100)

For injection needles ... AN- 2525R ( £2.35 for 100)

[Dragon2014]

You are a star. Thanks

Is 1 inch for injection needles large enough for intra-masular injections ? Do you inject into thigh or deltoid please?

[wedgewood]

I inect into my thighs . 1 inch is enough for me . But gauge 25 is excellent - it's really fine . You can't feel it going in. Use outer mid third of thigh . It's nearest the muscle .

[Dragon2014 in reply to wedgewood]

Thank you. I have already placed an order

How often do you inject wedgewood ? Do you routinely check your B12 and what is your average level if you can share?

Is there a quick way of checking B12 level other than requesting it via NHS? How much does it cost please ?

My current level is 118ng/L

[wedgewood]

You can get a DIY blood test for B12 from "cera screen.co.uk " costs £39.00 . Once you start injecting B12 , testing is pointless though , as you will always get a very high level .

[wedgewood]

I forgot to say that I inject once a week .

[Dragon2014]

This is very often. I understand that you inject 1mg of B12 in total every week right ?

Weren't you ever worried about any potential side effects of having ecsess of B12 if thre are any at all?

[wedgewood in reply to Dragon2014]

Yes , that's right - 1mg every week. It's what I need to keep symptoms at bay . There is absolutely no danger at all . There are scientific papers to prove this . I have been doing this for 2 years . I have heard of people who need to inject daily . It's totally harmless . My doctor told me that it's toxic, when she turned down my request for more injections than once every 3 months . But I'm afraid that most of our doctors are horribly ignorant on PA -and B12 deficiency . Otherwise , the PAS wouldn't be needed .

[Dragon2014]

I am still trying to figure out why my B12 is so low. I have very high intrinsic factor antibody of 108 u/mL (range 0-24).. I have been screened negative for coeliac diseaase though and my liver function is spot on.

I guess it could be some kind of autoimmune disease? I am seeing gastro endocrinlogist beginning of July.

Do you know why your B12 is so low ?

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Dragon2014]

being high for IFA means that you have a positve for PA as the cause of your B12 deficiency - the problems with IFA test are the frequency with which it gives a false negative (ie a negative doesn't rule out PA as the cause)

the caveat on the IFA test is that supplementing prior to a test can cause a false positive - depends on the test - for some the period between supplementing and test only needs to be 24-48 hours but generally would recommend 10 days or so to be on the safe side.

[Dragon2014 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank for letting me know. I was not aware of that.

[wedgewood]

Pernicious Anaemia is an autoimmune disease. The Intrinsic Factor Antibody test is notoriously inaccurate ! My B12 should be sky high as I inject so often. . I haven't been tested for 2 years . But nearly all my symptoms have gone . But I'm left with burning feet ( they were totally numb before I started injecting) That is permanent now , but I can cope with it ! Main thing is I feel well after being so exhausted , confused and muddled . Had to go privately to get diagnosis . For tummy problems, I take a probiotic ( PA brings Achlorhydria with it - lack of stomach acid )

[wedgewood]

Having low B12.can cause high Homocysteine which is a big health hazard . I brought mine down from 15 to 7 after treatment .

[Dragon2014]

Thanks for sharing that info with me. I shall ask my Gastro consultant about tests for Achlorhydria as well as Homocysteine. I might as well get the retest for intrinsic factor too

I am going privately to Spire for that.

[wedgewood]

Good , I'm glad to hear that . Best wishes to you . I hope that you can get some good advice . It was my gastroenterologist who told me about PA patients having Achlorhydria / Hypochlorhydria . But I was told that there is no test , only in research situations . There is also no treatment . I found that a good probiotic helped to improve the stomach flora which was upset by the lack of acid . Homemade organic raw sauerkraut is excellent and cheap . Also kimchi . The gastro was a proffesor , but couldn't give me any treatment. I had to help myself . The condition can also be caused by long term use of PPIs (Proton Pump Inhibitors) which neutralise stomach acid .The pareital cells which produce Intrinsic factor , and stomach acid are attacked by antibodies. Sorry I've gone on so long . It's quite a vast subject ! All the best .

[Dragon2014]

You have done your research well:-). Thanks for your help today

[Deuto]

Dragon2014

I just want to clarify some things that are said upline re the Intrinsic Factor Antibodies test, as I note that your result came back at 108u/ml compared to a range of 0 - 24. This is a very high positive result.

This test is not inaccurate overall - only in respect of negative results.

A positive result from the Intrinsic Factor Antibodies (IFA) Test indicates Pernicious Anaemia in about 95% of cases. False positives occur in about 1 - 2% of cases where the person has taken B12 supplements or injections in the two or so weeks before having the test. More recent research still going on suggests that in very rare cases people with some other form of autoimmune condition may show a false positive for PA via the IFA test.

The IFA test is a lot less sensitive in relation to negative results, with about 40% - 60% of people with PA returning a negative result.

So if the test result is positive, PA is highly likely; but a negative result does not rule out PA.

If you have PA as appears almost certain in your case from your IFA result, then this is why your serum B12 is low.

If you are going to be retested for IFA, then ensure that you do not take any form of B12 supplementation for two weeks beforehand, as otherwise you may get a skewed result - even possibly a negative result which may then lead to you being told you don't have PA when you actually do have it. This in turn may lead to you not being given proper treatment through the medical system.

[Dragon2014]

Thanks for that information Deuto. Very useful

[Foggyme Administrator in reply to Dragon2014]

Hi Dragon2014. I'm with Deuto on this one...if you get IF test done again and it comes back negative, then you may struggle to get your B12 deficiency treated properly.

Testing negative does not mean that you no longer have (or didn't have) PA - because the test returns a false negative in 40 - 60% of all IF tests.

Many doctors do not realise this and we hear, very often in this forum, of cases where treatment with B12 is stopped because the IF test is negative.

Sadly, disgracefully...we also hear of people who have suffered permenant neurological damage due to the failure to treat B12 deficiency.

A positive IF test, which you already have, has a high specificity for PA (95%).

And assuming you have the symptoms of B12 deficiency....

Not sure how much you know about PA and the B12 deficienct it causes...so here's some links to information that you might find interesting:

b12researchgroup.wordpress.... (Serious Caution Note about the use of Oral and Sublingual B12 Supplements)

evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/b... (BNF B12 Deficiency: Hydroxocobalamin Treatment Regimes)

pernicious-anaemia-society.... (PAS Symptom Checklist)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (BSH B12 Deficiency / PA Diagnostic Flowchart)

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi... (British Committee for Standards in Haematology (BCSH) Guidelines: Treatment of B12 Deficiency and Folate Disorders)

bloodjournal.org/content/bl... (Haematologist B12 Treatment Review March 2017 – Includes Advice No Reason to Advise Against Self-Injection/More Frequent B12 Injections)

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12... (NICE Guidelines Treatment of B12 / Folate Deficiencies)

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi... (UKNEQAS B12 Treatment Alert, Neurological Symptoms and Risk of Subacute Combined Degeneration of the Spinal Cord – Immediate Treatment with B12 Injections)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (Problems with Serum B12 Test)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (Testing B12 During Treatment)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (Misconceptions About B12 Deficiency – Good to Know Before Seeing GP)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (B12 Treatment Safety / Long Term Treatment for neurological symptoms)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (B12 Deficiency: Neurological Symptoms Can Present Even When B12 is ‘In-Range’ and Without Macrocytosis (large red blood cells) or confirmed PA Diagnosis)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten.... (B12 Deficiency and Intrinsic Factor – Can Be Negative and Still Have PA)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten... (B12 Deficiency and Neuropsychiatric Symptoms)

Good luck with your Gastrologist's appointment, let us know how you get on and post again if you need any mor help or support.

👍

[Jenkinsaj in reply to Foggyme]

Hi Foggyme, I was diagnosed with PA a couple of weeks ago despite my B12 at about 300 it was the intrinsic factor antibody that suggested I had PA it was recorded at 2.1 (reference range 0-6) so one gp agreed it was PA. However I went in for B12 injection yesterday 8th dose and was told that I couldn't have it and the results were within normal limits. I can't find information about ranges apart from one hospital which suggested that anything over 1.53 indicates it is positive. Any ideas on this subject would love to hear back. I have so many neuro symptoms and feel grim. Thank you so much.

[Foggyme Administrator in reply to Jenkinsaj]

Jenkinsaj. You’ve replied and raised a new question in a thread that is a year old and forum members rarely return to posts that are so old...so you're very unlikely to get replies to your question.

However, I note that you’ve also raised a new post with your question and have had responses to that...so no need for me to repeat an answer here 😉😉

Good luck

[Dragon2014]

Wow I now have so much reading to do Foggyme :-). Thanks . Much appreciate your comments.