I have been in pain since July in my left shoulder and upper arm. I’ve had 5 guess causes but no investigation to actually find out what’s wrong with me. Rotator cuff tear, upper arm muscle damage, trapped nerve, damaged nerve, frozen shoulder. I have had an x Ray that came back nothing wrong with my bones and an mri scan referral has been refused by the hospital. I can’t sleep at night with out being constantly woken by pain and I can’t move my arm certain ways or reach with it. Pain medication really doesn’t help much if I move my arm
can a mri be refused to find out why your in ... - Pain Concern
can a mri be refused to find out why your in pain.
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caroldoyle1974
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I would be pressuring gp for referral to an appropriate consultant. I would also be badgering for MRI scan. Am surprised that hospital is refusing this and don’t understand! What department is refusing? How is hospital refusing. The length of time you have been struggling for would usually indicate that more investigation is required. It would help if you can give more information because doesn’t make much sense at moment….
in reply to Bevvy
I have had a similar issue and finally wrote to my MP in Westminster and made a series of allegations about the Hospital Trust which I stated I wanted investigated by the secretary of state for health, or whatever title the plonker traded under. It was a medical issue but different to yours.
Job done ! sorted!!
Sometimes you just gotta kick ass, and kick it bloody hard.
These days I have similar shoulder problems and I use Cocodomol 30/500 ( prescription grade ) 2 tablets at night when going to bed. Helps a bit for a good nights sleep but not always. I also find the pain is very much influenced by the weather. High humidity and low barometric pressure are the worst.
John
caroldoyle1974 in reply to
yes of a night it is worse because I can’t stop my arm moving like when I’m awake. I take co codamol like you but the pain still wakes me most of the night. I’m going to try my mp today
Yahaci in reply to
Love your style! But watch your back, they don't take dissent lightly.
My pain is also influenced by weather. Do you have some form of arthritis?
in reply to Yahaci
Yes - osteo arthritis. Initself its a long and involved story. I agree ....keep your friends close ....but your enemies even closer 😂
it’s actual mri refusing the scan as my gp didn’t fill in the form properly. MRI sent the cancelled referral e mail on 16 September but gp says they’ve not got it. MRI phoned my gp for me on 7 October and they located the e mail. The gp said they can’t do nothing without the referral back from mri. I have a telephone appointment on 14 October with my gp to see what I can do next
Well this sounds daft to me. Surely the gp can fill out another referral form - correctly this time - and send that to them. I understand the MRI people need a correctly completed form but all this messing about seems unnecessary.
I said the same to my actual GP when I spoke to her about it. She would not send another referral for me. Hopefully she can do it again on the 14 October
maybe go to a&e it’s a long wait and maybe not exactly the correct place but a damn good start if no one is helping at all!
I’ve had a lot of issues between doctors and hospital and it takes too long especially when you’re in pain.
There’s an ibulieve spray that’s not too bad for a bit of relief to help get you to sleep
I am wondering who made the referral for MRI. Sometimes an MRI scan is not an appropriate investigation. It seems unusual for a hospital to refuse a scan referral. Have you been referred to a rheumatologist, or pain specialist?
caroldoyle1974 in reply to
the mri was cancelled by mri itself they said the doctor didn’t do the form properly. They sent the referral back to the gp on 16 September via e mail. I’ve phoned the surgery loads of times since then and they say they can’t do nothing as they can’t find the email and can’t refer me aging until they have that back. I called mri back again on 7 October and a lady from there phoned my gp and they found the e mail. I’ve called 111 numerous times between these dates and been to a and e but they also wouldn’t do nothing because of the missing mri e mail. I’ve self referred to a physiotherapist who gave me exercises that make the pain worse
in reply to caroldoyle1974
So it looks as though you might get the MRI eventually. I've had pain in my right shoulder and upper arm for a couple of years. Initially it stopped me sleeping and I was unable to paint and garden as I used to. As the waiting time for NHS physio was so long I too went to a private physio who told me it was postural....probably right.... but like you the exercises made it worse. I eventually saw an NHS physio who really had nothing to add apart from referral to pain clinic. I was not keen on the latter as I don't want to take more pills so I haven't done anything about it since. I have to say it is much better now, it seems that time really is a healer!
caroldoyle1974 in reply to
my pain seems to be getting worse. Yes I don’t want more pills either
Any procedure can be refused if it is felt there would be no benefit to the patient. However it is unusual for a hospital to say no unless they have access to all your previous treatments etc
I have similar with particular pain in one side of my neck together with very restricted movement in shoulder. . I did have scabs, zray and mri but had to pay as our waiting lists here are off the scale. Also emg.
Diagnosis, which has taken 2 yrs, is tendinitis and start physio tomorrow
x
oh no you waited 2 years in pain that’s not good. Glad you have a treatment plan in place now
The first step should be to talk to PALS at the hospital. It stands for patient advice and liaison service. They will be able to help you figure out why the MRI was refused and what to do about it. You can find the PALS contact details on the hospital website, or find them on the NHS website: nhs.uk/service-search/other...
I will try that thanks
what I know is one thing which they can’t proof. Fibromyalgia if you read about it maybe u can find out more information? I have DDD but my pain spread all over body. Muscles and similar symptoms but I’m still waiting for mri results
they are slow at getting results aren’t they. Sorry your in pain I hope your feeling better
I’ve had neck, shoulder and head pain for over 10 years now. Have pestered GPs over that time requesting physio, this has been over three medical practices ,but have never got any further than muscular skeletal. I had an MRI scan 8 years ago, the pain became worse, so I requested another MRI, two years ago, the response from my GP was, that I had had one six years previously and it couldn’t have gotten any worse. I went privately to a physio, who wouldn’t treat me unless I had another MRI. So I took my older scan results to a chiropractor, who looked at them and said you have some serious issues here. Again he wouldn’t treat me without another scan. Back I went to my GP, I asked what the problem was, she replied wear and tear. I then told her what the chiropractor had said. Straight away she made me an appointment with a neurosurgeon, I had injections in my neck which unfortunately didn’t work, so now I’m waiting for an operation which is in Feb next year. Dont take what your GP says as final, contact PALs and complain.
I will do thanks very much. Sorry your in so much pain it’s not nice is it
I’ve had shoulder and back issues for years now. My GP put in a referral for a MRI a couple of years ago for my back and it was knocked back for reasons I don’t know.
I then went to see my physiotherapist and she put an urgent referral in for a MRI on the same area, it was accepted and I got one within three days.
My physiotherapist said it all depends what is written on the referral and my GP maybe didn’t give enough details regarding the pain I was experiencing. Turns out I had a large disc prolapse in my lower back. I think I’ve had approx four MRIs now as the pain is not subsiding.
Keep on at them, you know your own body xx
thanks I will and I’m so sorry your in pain
Hi
I had/have a similar problem to yours, I fell and hurt my shoulder, phoned for a G.P appointment and they Phoned me ? but I got a refferal to the hospital and Like you they sent me for an X-Ray but they couldnt see enough so they sent me for an Ultra sound scan which showed Rotator Cuff Tear and other Problems I was Lucky because I got an Operation fairly quickly (May this year) then I had two Months in a splint my arm was attached to my body in a special splint to isolate it from moving ....damned hard as it was my leading arm, but now I am waiting for bloods to come back as I am still in pain and lack of movement and they think it could be infection phone the G.P back and demand they do More I agree that nowadays you have to shout sometimes to get somewhere ... Best of Luck ... ZeN
oh dear I hope you feel better soon
Its very difficult when in pain to tolerate this attitude of no treatment, but it has become common place recently. I have to agree refusal for diagnostic test its not exactly good practice and needs to be raised with someone else. Many shoulder pain issues can be treated with Physio but that has to be paid for yourself in most cases unless you have had an operation. You can go for a physio assessment for diagnosis and treatment of shoulder pain but they only Xray and thats been done . Or you can opt for a private MRI they go from around £300 upwards., but may not be one in your area. Unfortunately the NHS is slowly becoming an emergency only service . I take tramadol for my ongoing pain with paracetamol but I have a long term pain issue i.e arthritis. You need a confirmed diagnosis , muscle pains can be caused by many things , including some quite serious illnesses. Remember it can take months to get an MRI scan in most areas so maybe you need a a referral to a specialist but even that can take 6 months or more sorry but thats how it works . Painkillers are the main stay at first. But keep your GP informed of how the pain is or they will never refer you. Best wishes & good luck.
The trouble with referral to a specialist is knowing who to refer you to. I’m waiting for an urgent MRI which if it doesn’t happen soon I will have to go private. My gp explained that she needs MRI results (issue is with my back) to know which specialist to send me to. This would be fair enough if I didn’t feel I am waiting too long for an urgent MRI!!
my son seen my pain yesterday when I knocked my arm he was going mad the gp hasn’t sorted out the investigation mri yet. Yes they can’t send me to any specialist until they find out what’s causing the pain
I’m in same site that gp can’t refer to specialist until MRI results are known!! No sign yet of MRI……
Hello Bevvy, when I was waiting for MRI on my knee I think they said 16 weeks for appointment and that was before the pandemic then there is another wait for results. Yet many private ones give results within days. I guess its the amount of NHS customers that causes the long waits.Hope you get yours soon.
I understand (although don’t agree with) ridiculous long waits. I had assumed I would have heard something by now when referral was for “urgent” MRI. Am going to start complaining to gp soon, and if absolutely have to I will ask for referral to go private. Can’t put up with this pain much longer. Has been months now, pain meds from gp having minimal affect and even osteoporosis has decided that needs latest MRI before continuing any further treatment. 😟 Gp did advise following MRI I was to ring surgery a week after scan to discuss results.
Hi again when I questioned the wait I was told how long by the hospital , but not long after I was referred to another NHS hospital along with several others on a Sunday. So I would say worth asking how long the wait is in your area. Are you able to attend elsewhere if offered. ? I had to be there for 8am. My freind had to go in the evening .The one I went to was a porta cabin type so not good for all.
I would attend anywhere (I think last time it was a private hospital but through nhs) and would go at 3 in the morning if it got me seen quicker!!
Thats the Idea.
Here in Tenerife 2 yr wait pretty normal these days.
x
In that case I would definitely go private and find money by any means. Am in far too much uncontrollable pain to wait 2 years 😥
I did. And now seeing big chief physio later today. . Physio here is all outsourced to private clinics as cheaper than employing them on our NHS
Just slightly off this topic but still chronic pain...in Scotland there are 40,000 waiting for 2nd and subsequent spinal injextions. Staggering
x
That’s inefficient. I think healthcare systems are broken all over the world. It’s a very sad state of affairs.
thanks I have a phone call with my gp on Friday morning
I had this exact issue they really could never figure out why eventually it worked its way out …. I fell few months prior to my shoulder and upper arm pain and I think I had a nerve that was pinched from the fall but Im not 100% certain just guessing really which is more then what my GP did … it took over a year to clear up and I had to force myself to move my arm in every direction..
I’ve been doing exercises my Physio gave me but that’s just making it worse. A year in pain is a long time isn’t it
Depending on what is causing the pain you could very well be making things worse! I usually deal with my chronic sciatica by pain killers from gp and gentle exercises in swimming pool. I saw osteopath who advised that am currently SO inflamed that I shouldn’t be going to swimming pool. ☹️. I have even had to stop osteopath treatment because no improvement and I feel is making things worse 😢. Once I have information from MRI I can then (hopefully) move forward for working treatments!!
It is a truly horrendous. Pain, always there and affects everything you do.
Here is scotland, pathway is normally tablets, physio, neurologist.
I had a neck scan, pre shoulder pain, and I had slipping discs there.
Fast forward 6 years of shoulder pain and I had to threaten legal action if something wasn't done.
Had an xray, nothing much shows just early damage. All that is done is refer back to physio. I found gabapentin x 12 helped immensely, and a long neck and back heating pad and heated car seats
I figured it was from disc c6 and c7 which cause specific scapula pain. I have slept on the opposite side of bad arm for 6 years now which helps.
I know things are different outwith scotland, hopefully you will get your mri soon. I went to Poland to get a private one, then forgot they only scan the trunk for that and not the shoulders and arms and now you need a gp referral for a private mri scan here so I don't hold out much hope of any further investigations😔
Lila
oh dear 6 years of pain is so bad isn’t it. If they helped straight away you wouldn’t of had to go through all that
Sorry about your difficulties. Are you experiencing scapula pain? (I hope you don't mind my asking.)
No not at all, yes scapula pain in one exact spot pulling and tearing, I feel like a puppet on a string with the pain sometimes, pain in my body is all one sided and I've related it to slipping discs at c6 and c7 from a scan in 2018 for neck.
Lila
Sounds like it's been going on for a long time. I'm very sorry to hear that and sorry for all the questions. Is there any way you can describe the spot? Just curious if it's near your shoulder, under your shoulder blade or by one of the borders or angles.
Scapula
It's exactly at the tip of the inferior angle, when the painkillers and nerve tablets wear off that is the first pain I feel, even though I have neck and back disc problems and sacro-iliac pain and hip pain, blah blah.. But that is the exact spot where the pulling pain starts.
Lila
oh yes... 
Physio can often help with disc issues. I'm sorry it hasn't for you and I hope you get a referral to have it fully investigated. Apologies to the OP for going off-topic. I hope you get that MRI along with some answers and relief soon, Carol.
Thanks Carol, on reading this thread I may ask GP for an ultrasound.
Lila
That could be a good start. Good luck.
Hi Carol, I am sorry to hear of the pain you are having to go through. I thought I would offer my thoughts as Head of Radiology at an NHS trust and someone who diagnoses trauma from emergency department x-rays, etc.
When a GP requests any diagnostic imaging (X-Ray, CT, Ultrasound, MRI, etc.) it is vetted (i.e. checked) by a Consultant Radiologist to ensure that it is the correct type of exam (they are very different in the anatomy and pathology they demonstrate), it's looking in a suitable area and that it is answering a clinical question that would result in a surgical or medical intervention if something is found. Virtually all NHS hospitals only accept electronic referrals and the GP would get an email if the request was rejected, and why.
It could be they have not supplied sufficient clinical information, or that another type of imaging is more appropriate. Radiology does not have access to all your GP notes so it has to rely on the information it is given in the request. So a request that just says "Pain in shoulder" for example, isn't specific enough. The GP must know why the request was refused and what they need to do to correct it; if they don't understand then they should phone Radiology, asked for the "Duty Radiologist" and discuss what is needed.
It certainly sounds like an MRI shoulder is appropriate for your symptoms - possibly an arthrogram (using special dye, called Gadolinium) to show the joint space better. There is, however, a huge backlog and waiting list for MRI due to 12 years of underfunding and the pandemic. Waiting times for Ultrasound is much less, and I suspect an Ultrasound would be the next step as your X-ray demonstrated no boney injury, as they will show tendonitis, rotator cuff damage and a number of other tendon/ligament issues.
Getting referred to a specialist can sometimes speed things up, but musculoskeletal pain is hard to pin down without imaging (could be referral from the cervical spine, rather than the actual shoulder, for example) which means you can get stuck between the two.
I would suggest that you ask your GP exactly what the refusal was for, and to re-request asap. In the meantime I would ask if Ultrasound could be used to at least rule-out many causes. The sooner you get the imaging, the sooner you get your much needed pain relief and hopefully long term resolution.
Not sure if this helps?
thank you for replying. I’ll speak to my doctor tomorrow and let her know what you have said. The mri sent back my referral to the gp on 16 September via e mail saying no but all my gp keeps saying is they can’t find it and can’t send another one till they find it on there system
''PAIN'' is a loaded term.
I went for an ultrasound on my hip. The 'technician' chastised me.. ''Pain is in your head''.
Apparently my head only feels the pain on one side of my body. Clever head.
Referrals to 'PAIN CLINCS'' are also just there to 'educate' people about how pain is in our heads. And teach you to think differently.
Unfortunately, all this shifting responsibility means they avoid finding the cause.
Therefore, instead of saying pain, try to focus on the functional impairments. Good luck xx
I was advised an ultra scan was the best course of action to determine the problems with my shoulder. My rheumatologist ordered it, was chased up several times. I had it 3 months later, the letter was lost in the post with the results, to be honest it was a real saga. I eventually found out the cause, was a tear in the rotary cuff, also a partial tear in the biceps, degeneration, bone spure’s. Physio was advised but then Covid happened, so this year I was referred again, I have developed frozen shoulder, I’ve had physio, exercises and just finished shoulder classes. I’m not after all this time in much pain, but still have some restricted movements, chair yoga helps me better. X
Why have they refused an mri
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