The state of the NHS: I want to ask people about their... - NRAS


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The state of the NHS

Celticdancer profile image

I want to ask people about their views and experiences with the NHS recently as I believe the NHS is really on its last legs now and won't be long (probably within the next couple of years) before it completely collapses. I'm treating my arthritis using more natural methods, eating an anti inflammatory diet, exercising, taking regular vitamins and minerals etc, because in the future I believe there won't be a health service that provides good healthcare free at the point of access. We'll probably have US style healthcare where if you want urgent and good treatment you have to pay for it through health insurance. I'm trying to keep myself as healthy and as fit as I possibly can to prevent more health issues and will hopefully reach old age without too many medical interventions. It makes me wonder about people who won't be able to afford health insurance, how will they be able to treat their arthritis and other health conditions if they're reliant on medications and treatments? Biologic medications cost about £1000 a month on the NHS (paid for by NICE and NHS at the moment) and in the US they can cost $7000 a month unless you have good health insurance that covers most of the cost and you only pay a small fee each month.

Most dentists are completely privatised now as it's so difficult to get an NHS dentist and the same will happen with GP's and hospital health professionals as working for the NHS is so exhausting and underpaid that the decent doctors, nurses etc are leaving in droves as they're treated so badly.

I can imagine in the future, poor areas having little to no GP's surgeries and health services as most of them will be concentrated in the richer areas like it was before the creation of the NHS in 1947.

85 Replies

Well I'm probably being a bit of a Pollyanna but I'm definitely more optimistic than that. I'm very lucky in that both my GP surgery and Rheumatology department are very good and I've seen various elderly neighbours recieving timely care from various healthcare professionals and I don't live in an affluent area. I agree that it's not perfect but I haven't lost hope that things will improve with the right political will.

Deeb1764 profile image
Deeb1764 in reply to Boxerlady

I hope there would be enough public uproar to stop any dismantling of the NHS too. After living in USA I can vouch it is a wonderful if in need of much updating service. If I look at my local GP and team I cannot fault them. RA team even always get back to me by email and if urgent I eventually get seen. It is not perfect by a long chalk but I keep my fingers x it is always there .

Have to say my local NHS hospital are amazing. I’ve seen my rheumatologist face to face throughout the pandemic. I can usually arrange to see her within a couple of weeks and nurses quicker than than that. I’ve had two lots of surgery in last 36 months and I’ve lost count of scans and x-rays and all have been very efficient. I’m also on Rituximab and have no problem booking those appointments. When I tested positive for Covid I had antivirals within 24 hours. Can’t comment on my GP surgery as not used them (other than for repeat prescriptions) for ages. As far as I’m concerned (especially considering the extreme pressure they’ve bern under) the NHS is far from broken, although I appreciate in some places it needs a bit of tweaking.

You may be right…but your fears have been expressed for years but I think the NHS will still struggle on as is….or until some political party can come up with a way of convincing the population that unless they accept the fact that to have a health service that meets all their demands in the 21st century they must PAY MORE….……like we do for everything else. Some people spend hundreds on something like a fancy mobile phone…but won’t up their health spend…until they need health care……

As now …. paying more would be proportionate to income…but realistically what people now expect for what they pay is a pipe dream ……in the last couple of years the service has deteriorated…….but so has every customer service ….so I really think those who can afford to buy what they want from the Private sector, will continue to do so….& a lot of people will just dream on & governments of all persuasions will continue to throw money at the same mistakes & wonder why there is no improvement…but the NHS that was born in1947 really is already long gone I’m afraid….

CripLady profile image
CripLady in reply to AgedCrone

People do not pay MORE proportionate to income. If you earn over 1K per week (approx) you pay 10% LESS on your NI. This is a tiered system which greatly benefits people who earn over 50K (approx).

AgedCrone profile image
AgedCrone in reply to CripLady

But basically people want first class medical treatment but are not willing to pay for it. One of the first things children should learn at school is the government doesn’t have any money….. it is our money…they just decide how to spend it.

As I said ….people pay hundreds of pounds for mobile phones…but when told they could have xxx treatment for the price of a phone….it seems they would rather suffer and have the phone. If people started paying for Private Medical insurance as soon as they started earning…they wouldn’t miss money they had never had…& they would be able to top up their NHS treatment with the odd Private treatment, but they don’t see it that way ….they just listen to the old, old Mantra “from cradle to grave” and think they are being hard done by.

No matter which political party is in power none of them would ever suggest we paid more for our NHS because they know the public wouldn’t vote for it.

But still …it never ceases to amaze me why all governments throw £millions at the same grey suits in the NHS…. and then wonder why they don’t get a different result!

CripLady profile image
CripLady in reply to AgedCrone

There was a survey a few years ago regarding this. The vast majority were more than happy to pay an extra 1% if the money went directly to the NHS.

It is also why many people voted for Brexit; including many NHS staff. Politicians lying and not fulfilling election promises is at issue here.

‘Cradle to grave’ has been an political PROMISE for decades; it is not a ‘mantra’. This is what the British population have been repeatedly told; they surely can’t be blamed for thinking it.. I personally don’t understand why you prefer a two-tiered system. If people can afford private health insurance, then they can surely pay more NI and tax instead. Closing all those loopholes including non-dom status would be a good start.

AgedCrone profile image
AgedCrone in reply to CripLady

But until the grey suits hang around not knowing which way is up being given…certainly not earning…….six figure salaries …that is where the money will stay…l.& clinical staff will of course go to work in Private Clinics…earning good pay & enjoying pleasant conditions. My last Biologics nurse left the NHS because she asked for a slight variance of hours…she had consulted everyone it would affect & they were all in agreement…but a grey suit said No!

So we are now short a Bio nurse…but she is happier & richer.

I think until the NHS model has some real reform, it will limp along much as it is now. Over 20 years ago it was known there would be a shortage of GPs and managers buried their heads in the sand.

Short term planning is damaging and the reluctance of the public to pay more NI to contribute towards it isn’t helping. Only have to look at the outcry of the recent ring fenced NI contributions. The same people bemoaning the lack of funding are the same people that are unwilling to pay an additional amount of tax to fund it and pay wages 🤷🏼‍♀️

NHS was formed to provide basic health support and the demands now are completely removed from earlier expectations.

Cuts to education funding, and charging students tens of thousands of £s, so that they can spend their lives helping people, is the issue that needs addressing. That has been Government, not managerial policy.

But the same people will spend a lot of money on non essentials just because they want…not need ….them.I know of people who get PMI for themselves, but could pay a small sum to add a spouse… but when I told them how much that would be at employment interviews… a quite regular answer was “ that’s my beer money”. ..& they just took the insurance for themself.

Until someone is Ill, they don’t realise quite how lacking the NHS is these days.

How many newly diagnosed people here expected to have wait months for a first rheumatology appointment?

I once put a job ad in the job centre just before covid as I wanted to help people and give training etc...never again. Out of 15 whoacceptedinterview, 3 turned up. One immediately said they weren't interested as they got more money unemployed. I showed him the door. One was unsuitable. Third I offered her the job and she didn't turn up. I called the job centre and they weren't interested.

In my last house I had a neighbour …a single mum with two children and she told me when I said to her “now the kids are at school you can get a job “ and I wasn’t being sarcastic ….she looked at me as if I was mad & said “Why? I get More a year than if I worked…a free house, my rent & council tax paid & free school meals for the children…for doing nothing … I would be mad to go to work”…. And she is right!These days Benefits are a way of life to a sector of society.

Surely it would be better to encourage them to work…even if only for their children to see working commands respect?

Unfortunately that’s been the issue for some time. As soon as someone starts to earn, they’re heavily penalised and lose a large amount of their benefits and can end up worse off. I love the GPs that speak out and say that working is good for mental health. Once you’re out of work, you get out of the habit and it’s easy to slide into depression too.

Look what WFH has left us with…let alone not working at all!

But thinking about it..people moan& groan about their various various illnesses ….from their cruise deckchair…if I was in pain& could afford a cruise…..I’d be on the phone to the Private clinic…not the travel agent.But we all have the right to choose how we spend what we earn….but don’t complain about the NHS If you are just trying to make a point…every one knows the answer is better organisation & funding…we just need to find the woman (🤭) who can find a way to get the public to pay up

Not sure this video is supporting your argument. He’s foul. I assume he’s some kind of comedian

All I can say is that I have had wonderful treatment by the NHS over the last few years by the hospital, general practitioner and even my dentist. I believe they are far from failing the public. Certainly in my part of the U.K. anyway. I live in Gloucestershire.

I worked in the nhs for 34yrs, and g HC Ave seen many changes. It is now run as a business, with the focus not always on best outcome due to costs. An example is products for wound care, we would be forced to use the cheapest, and not even stock the superior one, even though the more expensive one would work out cheaper in the long run. We also went from having few senior management to overflowing with them. On my ward each morning, I would have a bed manager, matron, senior matron, transport manager,and a discharge coordinator and a business manager all asking the same questions. How many beds do I have, how many discharges, can I get my admission ls in. If they didn’t like the answers we’d have to go through each patient justifying why we couldn’t discharge. All this pulling me away from the patient care I was supposed to give. It is utterly ridiculous, the number of management now. Having attended many of their “meetings” they were unproductive and an excuse for coffee and biscuits at nhs expense, whilst clinical staff purchased their own coffee. Everyone knows the issue re management but no one tackles it.

As others say the nhs has been privatised for years. I do believe the Tories are quietly chipping away, hoping we’ll be begging for US style healthcare. Javid himself has shares in a US health insurance company. However I believe it’s the one thing all Brits are passionate about, and will fight and challenge any attempt to dismantle it. I do think we have to accept to run a state of the art nhs is way more expensive than it was at the start of my career. Biologics weren’t available, and meds then did not carry the price tags they do now.

So I believe it will continue, but it needs restructured, and more money moved into clinical care rather than management.

I worked in healthcare for 20 years and I seen many terrible things. I completely agree with you that more money and resources should be put towards front line staff and less on administrators and managers. These managers don't care as like you say they are wanting to be paid for doing nothing and have useless meetings to justify their jobs.

That's just not true to say the managers don't care - the majority of them absolutely do care but there is very little that they can do to influence any change.

Then there is no point to their jobs if they have no power to change what's happening. There is something they can do. They could leave their jobs and their hefty paychecks to show that they're not needed.

Have you worked in the NHS? I have and I was one of the managers you're maligning and it's not true in many cases

But you must admit some of the ideas they have… have caused a huge exodus of good qualified doctors from the nhs.A wonderful surgeon I know….decided life was too short to put up with being treated so badly….& now says he literally feels so much better, without seeing every other week …. grey suits interfering in his clinical decisions.

He was going to work abroad..but at 57 decided retirement was too tempting & has given up…to play golf!

But he will be missed in the NHS & in his Private Practice.

True. Unfortunate managers mostly do what they're told by the CEO. Its akin to being a doctors receptionist. Stuck between a rock and a hard place

Ah, the meetings. Dire wasn't it. I was a governance manager in primary care. I left as I thought my job was pretty pointless. An end less round of meetings for the sake of it.

This man is a racist antisemite and not what he seems to be 😊

I've seen many Jolly Heretic videos and never once have I found him sexist, racist, homophobic or antisemitic. I read the blog you linked but it's just one person's opinion on another person. There is no real hard evidence that Edward Dutton is any of these things. You have to prove it. Many of the left wing liberals are trying to shut down any opinions that don't agree with their own and push woke ideology onto society that is actually helping destroy our society.

Sorry, he's a proven racist antisemite

I can produce hundreds more links to proof, but seriously, I would not be defending this terrible man

When discussing his support for MacDonald's anti-Semitic theories that Jews undermine "white ethnic solidarity in the West", a journalist felt uncomfortable with Dutton asking whether he was Jewish:

I can go on. Even in this video he talks about 'horribly ugly receptionist' and 'breeding people of low intellect'. He is indefensible. He's also wrong. Doctors work a percentage of their time in NHS if they are also private doctors. It's in their contract.

I find websites like rational wiki, liberal rubbish. He uses comedy to get his points across (that's why he dresses in funny costumes at the beginning of his videos for those that don't get it) and is not for the snowflakes who are overly sensitive. He tells it like it really is. Maybe the receptionist was ugly that he commented on. Some people do have low intellect. Everyone is different and we are not all the same. Calling everything racist, sexist, anti semitic is a fashionable thing now.

So you think antisemitism is something to laugh at. It is not. Not ever

A great deal of the NHS is already outsourced to private healthcare. Part of our city NHS healthcare is run by an American equity firm. Not good. I couldn't afford to pay for private health insurance, am on a state pension.

AgedCrone profile image
AgedCrone in reply to ABwn

The point is there could be a system where you pay some sort of private health insurance alongside what is now your regular state NHS contribution all your working life….if you pay from your first paycheque….so you don’t suddenly have to “payup” you do it from your first job.Look at European health systems…all my friends who were either born in mainland Europe, or married & went to live there ….all seem to be happier with the health care they receive than we are. One who has dual nationality only ever sees her UK GP in a dire emergency …she flies back to Europe for her health needs.

Of course it’s all a pipe dream…to dismantle the NHS would take a genius..& from past experience…we don’t have many of those.

Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to AgedCrone

My daughter lived in Germany for years, the health system is better...if you are wealthy and have good, expensive insurance, the same as it is here. People on lower salaries, with poorer insurance have poorer care. Women also pay more than men, to cover contraception and childbirth. Some care is provided by the state but it covers a limited range of conditions. Their care system also lacks integration between Drs, so no one knows what you have been seen/treated for unless you are articulate and can pass the information on.

My 'relative' by being my cousins long term partner, is German and waxes on about how good their care is, her father is medical Dr, her mother is in a high paying job, they are a very comfortable, affluent family. She avoids any discussion of people less affluent than herself and the quality of care they receive. As she now lives in Scotland she takes NHS care for herself and two daughters of course, but never stops complaining about it. She and her partner both work and pay taxes, so she is very much entitled to use the NHS.

helixhelix profile image
helixhelix in reply to AgedCrone

The NHS system I used to know is the absolute best ever, I loved it and am an NHS baby though and through. But when I read what many people on here are facing now it makes me so sad that a once brilliant public service is in such a poor state.

I am now in France, and the health care is great. You have to contribute, but people on low incomes or with chronic expensive disease are exempt from paying. There is a shortage of doctors and nurses, so for some things and in some areas there are waiting lists. However for me and my RA I cannot fault the service I have received. Everything I have needed I have been given. And apart from one video call with my rheumy at the beginning of Covid absolutely nothing changed - scheduled F2F as normal, and all the other bits and pieces too.

France puts more of its GDP into healthcare, and it shows.

I am sorry you have such a negative outlook re the NHS. Yes it has its problems but I have nothing but praise for them. They are doing an amazing job with too little funding and resources. This past year I have personally had experience of excellent treatment also for my husband and for several friends. It cannot be denied that the NHS needs a lot more money so it can recruit more professional staff and that money is tight just now but like the Phoenix it will rise from the ashes. It is far too important to allow to die a slow death. I am positive about its future but as you say something needs to be done and urgently especially to stop doctors, nurses and dentists moving over to private practice so that everyone can continue to be treated regardless of financial status.

The only way to improve the NHS is to fight cuts and vote for better funding. Make sure politicians realise supporting the NHS is a vote winner rather than cutting taxes. As you say without the NHS the gulf between those with money and those without becomes far greater,and is not acceptable in a caring society.

I'm afraid most of the politicans don't care about British people. Some politicians who do care are trying their best to speak out against cuts etc but they're far outnumbered by politicians who either want power or are on the gravy train. We no longer live in a cohesive caring society like it used to be. People nowadays are far more selfish, materialistic and greedy. I see this all over the place. There are still decent people out there but I live in reality and cannot ignore what I see.

I hope the NHS lives on. I’m an NHS baby - born a few months after it was founded. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of things wrong with the NHS at the moment. As someone said it was intended as basic general health care but with the advent of new incredibly expensive drugs people expect it to provide ‘wonder cures’ which is fine but it’s getting to the stage do we pay for ‘miracle’ cures for the few or run of the mill ‘keep you functioning’ for the masses? As for managers - well they appear to outnumber medical staff these days which can’t be good.

I know one thing - my American friends who pay for their treatment, their drugs and their tests don’t seem to be any happier or healthier than a lot of us and their treatment isn’t guaranteed to be any better even though they pay through the nose for it.

The expectations of society are totally different now, people are totally different now - both doctors and patients - to what they were back in 1948. I don’t know what the answer is.

Where are you based? I'm asking because of your title which suggests you're based in a Celtic nation? I am in Scotland and have had sustained support from the NHS here. NHS Scotland have kept in touch with me about developments during the pandemic, and I have had treatments when scheduled. My partner had a routine operation in July 2020 with the necessary follow up. Scotland has not followed the path outlined in England where the structure has been broken up and semi privatised. Two new community hospitals have been opened in the last month, so its not just my experience, living in a relatively affluent part of our capital city.

Celticdancer profile image
Celticdancer in reply to cathie

I'm in the North of England.

Skyeblue2 profile image
Skyeblue2 in reply to cathie

Hi Cathie. I too live in Scotland and I just want to say that you are very, very lucky to have such good health care in your city. In my city you have to fight for everything. It's a postcard lottery and if you live in the wrong postcode in Scotland then you certainly know about it!

cathie profile image
cathie in reply to Skyeblue2

I’m sorry to hear that and hope things improve

AgedCrone profile image
AgedCrone in reply to Skyeblue2

I was reading only the other day…that:400 medical staff from the army had to be transferred to somewhere in Scotland to keep a hospital running.I think all the NHS’ are in a mess .

CripLady profile image
CripLady in reply to AgedCrone

If they were in the Forces their medical training would have been paid for; and consequently ‘free’ to them. It is a very different story for ‘civilians’.

Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to cathie

Despite the frustrations when the NHS has not always worked as effectively as I might have wished, overall the standard of care has been far superior than I could ever have afforded privately.

My neurosurgery care has been second to none, provided in the brand new unit at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary. Seen one week, operated on the next during the pandemic, by a highly skilled, personable, patient orientated neurosurgeon. He followed me up appropriately, an excellent service.

One of my pre surgical MRIs was carried out in the state of the art neurosurgery centre. High tech a d simply amazing. The second was in a private facility, being used by the NHS during the pandemic, it was old, clunky, noisy, the changing room was a small cupboard with insufficient room for someone with mobility issues to chance comfortably. The appointment also ran very late. But they had a beautifully decorated waiting room and a very glamorous and in my view, inappropriately presented receptionist.

What you see and what you get don't always match.

So, I'm with you Cathy, the NHS, warts and all is a far superior system, but we do need to pay more. I'm in Edinburgh too.

cathie profile image
cathie in reply to Mmrr

I’ve had similarly excellent treatment here. Including 5th covid jag on Tuesday. I felt reassuringly ropey after but back to normal now!

Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to cathie

I've postponed my 5th vaccination, it should have happened today, but I'm not so well, a big flare. I'll chase it up when things have settled.

cathie profile image
cathie in reply to Mmrr

Hope you feel better soon.

wishbone profile image
wishbone in reply to Mmrr


Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to wishbone

My toficinitib reduced in efficacy 10 days after my 4th vaccination, whether it was just coincidence or causal who knows, but it ain't working. I have a rheumatology appointment in 6 weeks time and hoping for a medicine change.

wishbone profile image
wishbone in reply to Mmrr


what you write applies to England not here in Scotland although the funding purse strings are a problem.

OK. I think that policies have exacerbated regional/local disparities in the way the NHS works in the UK.

Dare I say it - there shouldn’t be regional / local disparities in a ‘National’ health service yet somehow that has been allowed to happen.

I think in the light of what is now called bed blocking - the decommissioning of convalescent wards is proving to be a massive mistake.

I’m old enough to remember when it was quite usual for people who were not fit enough to go home but didn’t require full hospital care to go to convalescent homes to get their strength back. Alas, now they have become social pariahs commonly known as bed blockers.

For a lot of people this is EXACTLY what they need. I was really ill for 4 years at the beginning of my RA ‘journey’. Sitting in a bath chair next to the sea would have been heaven…. Instead I had to carry on alone with no support ☹️.

Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to Fruitandnutcase

My first staff nurse post was in a 24 bedded Nightingale ward. Patients returning from surgery were placed in beds outside the nurses duty room, always in ear shot for assistance. We kept most patients for 10 days, gradually moving up the ward away from the duty room as their recovery progressed.We also had an 8 bedded supplementary ward, were patients whose recovery was slower, or they lived alone...whatever ...where we could keep them for usually another 3/4 days. They normally were not moved into this ward until their sutures were removed and the staff nurse happy with would healing. This ward did not routinely have a staff nurse supervising, it was normally staffed by the old so called auxiliary nurse, or a 1st year student nurse , with the staff nurse to call on if required.

The staff nurse (me) provided medication and usually visited each patient at least once per shift to ask how they were doing.

We encouraged patients to dress in outdoor clothing, visit the hospital tea shop and so on....prepare for discharge in other words.

Furthermore we could request patients went from this support ward to the Convalescent hospital, rarely there was an issue with this. Perhaps we might need to keep someone in the support ward for an extra day or two until a convalescent bed became available , but I don't remember any outright refusals.

Compare this 1980 - 1981 to now.

Maureengibson profile image
Maureengibson in reply to Mmrr

I have experienced similar. When I started nursing in 1984, our patients who had hip replacements were in hospital for 3 weeks. The first 2 weeks was bedrest. The second week gradually increasing time spent out of bed. At the park nod of the 3 weeks they would transfer to a rehabilitation ward to convalesce. Compare that to now where hip replacements are in hospital for 3-5 days, with 3 being the most common. They rarely meet criteria for support on discharge, even organising district nurses to remove clips is challenging, as the practices insist they attend the surgery to have it done. Inpatients are much more acute than they are et were in the 80s, when surgery took longer and your ward had patients at different stages of recovery. Now it is like a factory production line, with some surgeons doing 5-6 joints a day, and you could have 2 surgeons operating each day. This meant half the ward was full of patients first day after surgery. It’s good that progress has been made in joint surgery, and fewer complications occur now, but we have stopped treating patients as individuals and they are now just a number. Managers will come in asking “what’s going on with bed number 7”, it’s so sad. We also used to have time to chat with patients in the 90s which was when you could tease out any issues on discharge. Sadly no nurse on a ward has time for a chat except for when assisting with tasks or undertaking procedures

I too was a ward sister in the early seventies in a big London teaching hospital. Life on the wards was SO different, as you’ve described, compared to now. We seemed to have all the time in the world for looking after our patients and were taught to care for them as we would like to be treated. People were in hospital for at least ten days after an appendicectomy and were allowed to convalesce until discharged. If they couldn’t be discharged to a comfortable environment we sent them either to a convalescent ward or a convalescent home.

Few ever appeared again unlike these days when women who have had hysterectomies are very often re-admitted within days having had no information, no proper after care and have just been left to just get on with it. I know the turnover is the most important thing for the health of a hospital’s finances these days but the poor patients are on a never-ending conveyor belt with managers shouting ‘next’. It seems as soon as someone can pee, poo and have got a pulse they’re on their way out of the door and someone else is lying on the mattress before its cold! Relatives are not the best people to try to cope with a very poorly, needy and dependant person who has been tipped out of hospital far too soon.

I fully appreciate techniques and protocols have moved on but a hospital should be a place of safety, comfort, convalescence and good care and sometimes it’s hard to see where any of those fit in today's frantic pace! I know which time I preferred to be a nurse!

I agree completely. Definitely preferred nursing back in the 80s, where you built up a rapport with your patients. When work was done you were encouraged to sit and chat with your patients, which was when you often picked up on social issues that needed dealing with for a safe discharge. The pace has definitely speeded up, with it feeling like a production line, and taking on so many of the Drs skills, cannulating, administering IV meds etc. When I first qualified these were Drs jobs and we used to have to call the Dr out in the night to administer IV meds or take blood tests. Now Drs rarely use these skills, just coming and giving their orders and leaving us to it 😂. How times have changed. I retired at 62 due to having a severe stroke as a result of an adrenal crisis. I look back and wonder how I kept going with my inflammatory arthritis. Still miss it, although my health is benefiting from not working 12.5hr shifts. Take care 🤗

I would have enjoyed working as a nurse or carer back when you worked as a nurse. I wish project 2000 had never happened but unfortunately it did and I think it ruined nursing. I worked as a Carer for 20 years and I loved my job in the beginning but slowly it got worse and I done the best I could for the residents but my health failed on me with arthritis and I became too ill to do the job any more. I might have even gone into nursing if project 2000 had never happened but when I was in my 20's I went to a University open day and looked at the nursing courses and they were pure trash. I asked the nursing tutors standard questions that they should have known the answer to and they couldn't answer as they said they didn't know. I knew then that nursing had become very degraded. I've worked with nurses in the care homes who withheld pain relief from residents as they were too busy doing paperwork whilst me and the other carers pleaded with her to give a dying woman some morphine. There are not enough nurses now as care homes are struggling to find nurses.

Yes, Project 2000, the brainwave of someone lacking in brain…….The first thing that went wrong with nursing was when ward sisters in the 70’s were turned into ward managers by the Salmon Report and the next worst thing was Project 2000 which put the tin lid on. Oh and reflexive practice. Eh? Sounds good, not a lot of good when some one needs a bedpan in a hurry ………..

Our community services were sold off for Tender under Gordon Brown and subsequently they have been stripped away . Having worked so many years for the NHS it breaks my heart to see so many staff from the cleaning staff to consultants stretched and struggling . You can only get what you pay in . The NHS was for basic care , from cradle to grave . Unfortunately or fortunately science has marched on and so has our expectations and better health . We expect to be treated , to access this amazing treatment , but on minimal payment . Europe have private medical treatment but it’s payable at source by everyone and is far greater than our NI contributions . Covid showed every weakness , we are looking at the dinosaur and we can’t save it . It needs a total remodel , I’m not sure how you get to a stage where we can treat everyone across the board and I would imagine eventually they’ll bring in a two tier system everyone under 35 will pay a far greater sum for treatment but will access a far superior service and the rest of us will amble on with out moaning and with gratitude with what we have . It’s totally heartbreaking .

So right Nessa28. All of the above plus throw in Tony Blair rearranging doctor’s contracts etc. that was pretty much the start of the rot really. It needs a total remodel but hopefully it won’t be handed over to private hospitals to remodel. It is very sad that it has come to this.

Oooh those bodged GP contracts. And Project 2000

There is no way GPs will give up those gains is there?

No. Hard to go back again

Mmrr profile image
Mmrr in reply to HappykindaGal

Don't get me started on project 2000. The end of nursing care as we knew it.

Nessa28 profile image
Nessa28 in reply to Mmrr

Definitely was

HappykindaGal profile image
HappykindaGal in reply to Mmrr

Sorry! You're right 😔

AgedCrone profile image
AgedCrone in reply to Mmrr

We used to laugh at too posh to wash…& lo & behold it became fact!

Hi Celticdancer, well that's an emotive question. I for one have been brought up with the current Queen & NHS and its difficult to give a simple answer on the NHS. Over the years both myself and my family have received the basic treatments. However in this modern day and age people expect to have new drugs, new treatments, cures where possible and well trained staff in specialties. This new approach to health care ,like social care is leaving many without care . The system needs to be reorganised to maximise the best use of equipment & the staff using it. Drugs ,and minor treatments need to be monitored for maximum value for money. Some private treatment is not that expensive , if you can afford the other luxuries in live why not a contribution to NHS care. We have one of the best health services in the world but can no longer afford to finance what many patients feel is their right. Xrays are cheaper than scans for instance but scans are more thorough on finding possible defects. Why are consultants fees so high when they work for the NHS, no doubt their knowledge warrants such a fee , but could we not have medical test clinics for diagnosis so we are seen by an appropriate consultant if necessary? and to spite the digitalisation of records we the patient and the doctors still have to go through a history taking and things like blood tests, urine tests, BP , weight ect at clinics due to data protection of the doctor's info, not necessarily the patients info. Computerised info is only as good as the in put just like manual and some info can be misleading if not concise . Sad to say in this modern day people are dying with cancer not from cancer, even an illness like Arthritis does not have tests to determine which of the many types it could be before treating, its merely treated based on obvious symptoms if any. Considering how many patients are treated in a day I think everyone should be grateful for what the NHS can offer. I worked for the NHS too but in ancillary services which are just as important none the less , however come from the same budget as the medical side I believe.

Do you WANT to depress people? There’s enough going on in the world at the moment. People want ‘help’ not surmises. We want to be happy for as long as we can.

I'm afraid the predictions for the future are not good. It's not just the NHS that will suffer but food and fuel shortages are predicted and its coming from the World Economic Forum. If you want to put your head in the sand you certainly won't be alone but this comment thread is not for the overly sensitive. People will have to be strong and resourceful in the future. Ignoring a future crisis is not a good idea. This debate was intended to talk about what's really happening and not sugar coat anything.

OMG the end is nye. Are you for real and why try and depress us for what gain? Now scrolling by 🙄

All I can say is “ thank goodness for sand”. At least we enjoy life. 🌞💃💐😎👩‍🦽👩‍🦽

We are definitely going backwards. Privatisation is rampant (one fifth of the NHS budget given to Serco for Track & Trace rather than giving this money to local services that were already in place 😳🙄. Billions lost to unusable PPE 🤬; Some people doing ‘home dentistry’ as even kids can’t see an NHS dentist anymore; Some people unable to see a GP, or get a Hospital appointment….Vulnerable people (CEV) taken off dentists list as they haven’t seen them in 2 years 😯because they didn’t want to die!

We can see from the current ‘energy crisis’ and the price of a stamp what the realities of privatisation are. Millions have voted for Privatisation over the years, but don’t see themselves as culpable. This to me is the major issue. People don’t know enough about how politics/ economics work and we all suffer as a consequence.

Social/ working class history/ politics need to be compulsory subjects so people know the reality of the systems we all live within. Trade Unions ensured we all have weekends 🎉. Health & Safety/ work directives so kids aren’t up chimneys or down the pit and people aren’t working 80 hour weeks.

I hope people wake up soon and realise the consequences of their actions. All parts of the Public Service have been decimated in the past 12 years. The roots go further back to Thatcher & Major. I’ll be shouted down for this by some, but this is all FACT, not my personal opinion.

Change needs to happen or else this country will implode.

In terms of the NHS, I am very glad it exists. I haven’t had any trouble accessing services. I haven’t seen a Rheumatologist for a couple of years (over Covid), but I am stable, so not an issue. The dentist thing is annoying (CEV) but I am complaining and quoting the Equality Act at them. People just need to shout “NO” very loudly… there is always hope.

Just sharing an experience of costs the NHS are funding (not NICE, they are an independent organisation & have no part in funding the NHS). My h is in need of an MRI. He had an appointment last week at the local Spire Hospital (referred by NHS specialist, occasionally the two merge if needs be) but he was unable to have it as he has severe panic attacks at the thought of being enclosed. He did get as far as lying on the bed but had panic took hold. It may have been possible if he was scanned feet first as he's just about managed this with some difficulty previously. Unfortunately it wasn’t possible this time for the area needing scanning, he would have had to be scanned head first. It's a recurring problem but this time the NHS is going above & beyond.

The specialist rang him yesterday, was very understanding & caring after my h explained the reasons behind his problems & calmed him when he started getting upset talking about the experience. The upshot is she's invited him to go to have a look at a different MRI machine at a private practice in our town. I thought this sensible rather than making an appointment & potentially wasting it (& the appointment fee) by him having another panic attack. Furthermore, if this was still not possible she has offered for him another option, to go to a private upright MRI centre in Manchester to use an open scanner, also known as an upright scanner. It will be a 114 mile round trip, but if this is the only way to see just what's wrong so be it, though this will take a little longer as she has to apply for funding.

I'm beyond amazed not only at the understanding of the specialist of my h's deep rooted fear & need for the scan but on the other hand stepping back I can see it from an unrelated viewpoint & the costs involved which could otherwise be put to use elsewhere. I won't divulge how much it will cost should he need the open scanner but it is eye-wateringly costly.

I'm generalising, but like most of us we've both at times had a really good moan about the state of the NHS but on a personal level this is going above & beyond. Nevertheless I’m torn, especially as one of my Goddaughters gave birth last Thursday & her baby son needed to spend 5 days in the Neonatal Unit. The money potentially being allocated for the upright/open scan would have paid for some of his time there.

CripLady profile image
CripLady in reply to nomoreheels

But as individuals we should not be taking on this calculation ‘burden’. People should have access to services which suit their needs. This is covered by the Equality Act. People should not be thinking about whether or not they personally are worth the cash!

I personally believe Ministers or others, should not be able to make budgeting decisions unless they are trained in Health Economics (for the NHS) and other specialisms as and where necessary. We operate a system where ‘somebody’s mate’ is given control of a Health Commissioning Board, or gets to be in the Cabinet. It’s a total farce. Or in some cases the House of Lords which can veto sound proposals… 🤬.

Like you I have always had a really good service from the NHS (current dentist drama aside). It makes me fume that it is being left to rot. Mutter, mutter, mutter…..

Yes I agree. Our Government needs to put more money in the NHS for training but it is still a wonderful institution.

I completely agree with you sadly.

Yes I read the NHS X document. I wasn't impressed.

Well that was a cheery and negative read! I don't agree. I get fantastic service from my Hospital, Dr's surgery NHS Dentists. I'm not alone so cheer up it might not be as bad as you imagine

I used to work for the NHS and I am confident that it will get back to the wonderful service it was. Apart from all the waiting lists (I’m on two different lists for surgeries) I feel for the staff, many of them will be suffering from PTSD after the way they had to care for patients during the pandemic. It was a completely unnatural way to be nursing. I have to be hopeful that the surgeries start back to a more normal level soon and get through the waiting lists. I do think they’re wonderful.On the reverse I think if more GPS started back to a more normal service things would improve greatly. I honestly don’t think telephone appointments are good enough.

Fingers crossed that things improve soon x

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