Vegan diet and RA

Hi, someone can tell me their experience with a vegan diet? I’m transitioning from vegetarian to vegan (for ethical reasons, but i eat pretty healthy compared to my friends and family) and my rheumy is so skeptical (totally understandable, in italy being vegan is a relatively new thing). Did you have any benefits from it? Online i read so many different point of views! If you could link me some legit articles i would appreciate it.

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  • Hi Saraya

    I have tried the vegan diet ... I found going off cheese helped reduce flare up in my knees. I cant give up eggs though. But I do have a fantastic site for you to have a look up. Just google Clint Paddison. He is an Australian like me, and he has discovered a plant only diet that transformed him from crippling RA to wellness. He concentrates on autoimmune disease. He is on U-tube and interviews his clients showing their progress. He has a programme and is invited to lecture all over the country. He is linked with Dr McDougall from USA, who advocates vegan diet or plant based diet. I have lots of great recipes now for vegan but it took me a while. I have decided to be vegetarian as I haven't yet reached the discipline of veganism although my son is a vegan and his health has improved dramatically over the last few years.

    I told my dietician the other day about the Paddison programme and she said she just rolls her eyes when people come in with so called healing programmes. Oh dear. She is not very open!

    I told her you have to be desperate enough .... and I am!

    Hope this helps

    Warm regards

    Rosie

  • Thank you so much! I’ll check them out. Sometimes people makes me feel like crap for me wanting to follow a plant based diet and i often feel like i’m doing everything wrong. It will surely help me. I’m so thankful for this website, people on here are so kind.

  • .

    Ha, ha, ha . . . 😂 😂 😂

    You needn't ever "feel like 💩" about looking into following a 'plant-based diet', sarayar. 😌 🙏

    There's a huge stateside 🇺🇸 healthcare organization ('Kaiser Permanente' forksoverknives.com/why-the... ), who are encouraging their millions of clients/ patients to adopt plant-based foods: share.kaiserpermanente.org/...

    (Worry not. Your in very good company, dear lady. ☺️ 🙏 )

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    Aside: Have you heard the expression in Italy 🇮🇹 :

    . . . "Lead, follow, or get out of the way"? 🤔

    .

    You may be in the 'lead' (on the cutting edge) where others have yet to catch up with you.

    Thus, you may be sensing 'resistance' from those yet unaware.

    Worry not. 🙏 😌

    Kindly ☺️ , do what's good for you, sarayar.

    (Others will do what's good for them.) 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

    .

  • Hi Kai

    I love your answer. It is so encouraging. It is nothing harmful about a vegan or vegetarian diet. My iron went down simply because I wasn't paying attention to which veges to eat more of.

    B12 is fine. Vitamin D was always down before I took up a plant based diet. I don"t like the sun and I am ageing.

    Flax seed is the answer to make up for the deficiencies.

    Rosie

  • .

    Exactly, 🌹-ie 1928. 👍👍 As long as we proceed sensibly.

    As our gut 'heals' we may be better able to absorb nutrients from foods, thereby reducing our need for supplements 💊 (or reducing supplement dosages) if we're on any supplements, that is.

    Yes, in early phases so many of us suffer from 'anaemia of chronic illness' & we need to supplement 💊 depleted nutrients ( healthunlocked.com/cure-art.... ) until our gut can better absorb nutrients from foods.

    Yes, if sun exposure 🌞 isn't an option, Vitamin D (hormone) supplements 💊 is an alternative. My understanding is some sun ☀️ exposure is best for natural Vit. D (hormone) production. 🤔

    I know what you mean, 🌹-ie 1928. We wan't to be aware of prematurely ageing 👵 👴 or any of the downsides of too much sun exposure. 😳 😯 🙃

    Yes, flaxseeds help make up for deficiencies [Omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFAs)]. 👍👍

    .

  • I bought Dr McDougall's book which explains why plant based is so good and different countries that have lived exclusively on plant based diets. He explains the problem with dairy etc. He was even kicked out of a seminar for his views but he is not a crank. The dairy industry in America are probably up in arms about his views. He gives facts and figures and it changed my thinking. As an ex-nurse I make sure I have the facts and he convinced me.

    He has a clinic in America and treats thousands of patients making them well on a plant based diet.

    If you care to follow his utube videos you will be amazed.

    I found him after I noticed a change in my son's health. He had discovered the Doctor and turned his health around and his weight.

    Sorry written a novel.... again.

    Warm regards

    Rosie

  • Don’t be sorry!!! More informations i have, the better. I love reading what you have to say. Again, thank you for these sources. x

  • .

    Dr. John McDougall 👨‍⚕️ YouTube videos 📹 : google.com/search?as_q=Dr.+... (from Google search results)

    Spot on, 🌹-ie 1928. 👍 (Dr. JM is genuine, reputable, & has improved many lives. And, his online videos/ information is free 🆓 !) 😳

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  • .

    Spot on, rosie1928 (🌹-ie 1928)! 👍👍

    For 'legit' articles/ experiences, sarayar:

    👨‍💼 PP (Paddison Program) Podcast: paddisonprogram.com/blog/

    👨‍⚕️ Dr. John McDougall – Arthritis: drmcdougall.com/health/educ...

    .

    Few more NRASers for whom PP is working well (if ever seeking fellow travelers, 🌹-ie & sarayar) 😌 🙏 :

    andyswarbs: healthunlocked.com/user/and...

    Shaun94: healthunlocked.com/user/sha...

    • Kai--: healthunlocked.com/user/kai...

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    🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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    Oh, if ever you'd like to share your recipes (& food photos 📷), 🌹-ie/ sarayar, kindly consider posting 📝 . (Always interested in tasty 😋 new ideas.) Kind regards & best wishes to you both. ☺️ 🙏

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    [For clarification, sarayar, PP is a 'process', which includes dietary 'and lifestyle practices (food, movement/ exercise, mindset, etc.) specifically tailored for RA-ers/ Autoimmuners to help us manage our disease. It's not merely following a particular 'diet' over various phases. It's much, much more. 🤔 ]

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  • Thank you so much! I will check them out as soon as possible. x

  • I signed up for the program but haven’t started it yet. It is really popular and not as expensive as some of the other programs out there. I’m hoping that it will work.

  • I have just done the two day detox juicing day using cucumber and celery. I loved it. Next is the buckwheat and quinoa . It is all to do with what is happening in the gut. (leaky gut) The buckwheat is gluten free to ease you into eating. I joined the programme but found a lot on utube. Clint Paddison is an amazing person who really gets people well.

  • .

    Rodriguez92 & 🌹-ie 1928, if you'd like additional perspective on PP process/ phases, I'd found journalist Sumit Bose's, video 📹 documenting of the early phases of his journey accurate/ insightful: healthunlocked.com/cure-art...

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  • The reason you read so many different points of view is because we are all different and ,the same as with the drugs, what diet works for one person won't necessarily work for others, There is no "one size fits all". Only by trying the diets yourself wil you find out what works for you.

  • You’re totally right, but there are some common evidences and i was mainly talking about those. I’m not sure if my plant based diet have something to do with my remission since i also take meds, but i’m pretty sure some triggers of my RA back then were my really bad eating habits and my poor lifestyle.

  • It sounds like you are doing pretty well with your diet, it can work alongside the meds and that's great that you are in remission. It's good if you know your triggers and can stay clear of them. I don't have any links to the evidence of diets but I'm sure someone will.

  • Really bad eating habits and poor lifestyle doesn't really go well with RA....healthy diet, good sleep, low stress and exercise do!

    As far as plant based diets go some people do seem to report great success with reducing symptoms. For myself I tried very hard early on after diagnosis and it basically diet did diddly squat for the RA symptoms. However, it did improve my general health and well being (along with exercise etc) and ai credit it will helping me tolerate the drugs well. So I carry on, just not as rigidly. If I have a yen to eat something I do...

    But as you say there are other reasons for being vegan. And as long as you pay attention to covering all your nutritional needs then it certainly won't do you any harm. Just be extra careful with vit B12 and D as people with RA can get deficient very easily.

    If you put diet or similar words into the search box top right you will get lots of posts on the subject - it is a hot topic!

  • The thing is that there is no point in eating a vegan diet if your perticular body does not absorb nutrients from plants very well or if the lectins and oxilates in the plants give negative responses. This applies even to those who eat beef and do not have the proper hcl and bile to carry out the digestion. So you need to first and formost to understand YOUR body and how it works. ( Thyroid function, estrogen levels, body temp, nutrient levels, light absorbtion, digestive function, immune capability and so on).Just starting a diet that has worked for somebody may not be a very good starting point.🤔

  • Spot on , Simba, but unless one tries a particular diet, one will not know what works and what doesn't. It is a trial and error method.

  • I don't really know if such a wise move. The effects of diets can be very powerful and in fact make your situation worse. I don't think you would say the same about a med, that just by trying you would find out? Or perhaps this is the way to go with RA meds?

    If you are sick, especially chronicly ill it only stands to reason that you first, before doing ANYTHING find out how things are working in your body and what is not working as a whole and then, and only then you think about eventual meds and diets that would help the body to heal and cope.

  • I have a 90% vegan and 10% vegetarian diet right now, it’s been one year and apart from some bloating i didn’t have any problems. I did check my thyroid (my mum has problems with it) and most of the things you mentioned. I’m really careful with these kind of stuff since my diagnose.

  • .

    I see 👁 👁 your point, Simba1992. 😌 🙏 The effects of diets can be very powerful & it can indeed exacerbate an already chronic condition (or tenuous situation). 🤔

    And, taking account of our bodily situation as best we can (with the 'tools'/ resources available to us) is wise 🦉 . 😌 🙏 It's the best we can do to assess our body — to "find out how things are working in your body and what is not working as a whole . . ." 👍👍

    .

    By the same token, careful research, rheum. 👩‍⚕️ 👨‍⚕️ consult & testing 👩‍🔬 ⚗️👨‍🔬 can only take us 'so far' . . . Then we have to put our 'best guess' probabilities 'to the test'.

    We have to ingest the food or the dietary supplement or take the pharmaceutical pill/ injection (DMARD, NSAID, Biologic, Steroid, etc.) to actually see/ experience 1st-hand the effect of that food or pill (or whatever) on our body. 😳

    [Our body is our own unique, '1-off' internal 'laboratory' ⚗️🔬 that can't be identically 'replicated' anywhere else. 🤔 ]

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    Experiential (experimental) self-learning via 'do & see', 'trial & error' self-experimentation is the bottom line — the end result. 😳

    No matter how much research 🕵️‍♀️ 🔎 📚 we do or how carefully we 'take in' our beloved, trusted medics 👨‍⚕️👩‍⚕️ knowledge, advise, wisdom . . . — the bottom line (the end-point, the end-game) is HOW our unique individual bodily system reacts. 😳 🤔

    No one — not even the best scientist 🥇👩‍🔬 , best medic 🥇👨‍⚕️, . . . — can predict 🔮 how our body will react. 😳 😯

    We can only find that out for ourselves. 😧 😯

    .

    [That's why ALL med. ingestion are 'trial & error' & ALL food ingestion are 'trial & error'. I/ we all wish it were otherwise. 😔 That's why our medics monitor us so closely 🔎 🤚 & why we need to accurately self-monitor ourselves 📈📉 — paying careful attention to nuanced bodily reactions 🤢 🤧 😰 / changes. 😯 😳 How often do we know well before seeing any of our tests results (or hearing any formal assessments from our rheums.) that we're improving or declining? 😳 ]

    We're our own walking 🚶‍♀️. . .🚶. . . , talking 🗣 💬 💬 laboratory on 2 legs 👖 — with ever-changing/ ever-shifting biochemistry churning around within us moment by moment, day by day . . . 😳 😯 🙃

    [Hmmm . . . we're Petri dishes on legs? 😂 . . . ⚗️ 🔬 ]

    .

    What's an 'unsafe' food for us 1 day, can eventually turn out to be a 'safe' food a few days, weeks, months, years later. 😳

    And, what was a 'safe' medication for us 1 day, can eventually be an 'unsafe' med for us a few days, weeks, months, years later . . . 😳

    Spooky 👻 , unnerving 😣 , disappointing 😞 . . .

    . . . unpredictable "if, when, how, why" . . . 🤔 🤷‍♀️ 🤷‍♂️

    .

    No amount of book research 🔎 📖 or valued insightful rheum. input 👨‍⚕️👩‍⚕️ can precisely anticipate/ predict 🔮 what our bodily reaction will be to any food or pill in any given moment.

    (It's/ we're fluid . . . in flux . . . 〰 〰 〰 to a certain degree . . . 🤔 )

    .

    This isn't to 'throw the baby out with the bath water'. 👶 🛁 Yes, research & knowledgeable medics/ scientists shine a light on probability, likelihood. . . via statistics 📊 , studies 📈📉 , etc. 👍

    Yet, what happens to boots-on-the-ground 👢👢, unique individuals is the true test — the test that counts for each of us as individuals. 🕴 🕴 🕴

    .

    All's well 'n good when we're the 19 out of 20 people for whom a food (or pill) works well. 👍👍

    It's a whole different kettle of fish 🐟 🐠 🐡 when we're the 1 out of 20 for whom a food or a pill fails. 😳 😱

    That's when 'troubleshooting' 🎯 , workarounds ♻️ , & feedback loops 🔁 🔄 come into play.

    That's the hard part — the really hard work ⚒ : figuring out 🤔 what to 'safely' try next when something fails us.

    .

    Time ⏳ , steady persistence 😑 , & continual research 🕵️ 🔎 📚 , rheum. consult 👩‍⚕️ , & further 'trial & error' self-experimentation 👨‍🔬 appear to be the only(?) current options for handling the obstacles 🚧 & the most difficult of difficult cases? 🤔

    Don't have any answers . . . don't know if any of us do . . . 😔 🤔 🤷‍♀️ 🤷‍♂️

    Think we have to patiently 😌 🙏 , tirelessly keep persisting in trying to figure out WHAT works for us. 🤔

    .

    Couldn't agree with you more, Simba1992. 🙏 😌 It's truly unique to each of us.

    We need to find a 'roadmap' 🗺 that helps guide 👉 👉 👉 us & to be able to figure out 🤔 when to stick to a path 🛣 & when to veer off ↗️↘️ a path.

    Oy vey! 😯 😳

    It's never easy. 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️

    .

    🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

    .

    [Ooooo . . . bit of a 'thinking aloud' that droned a bit . . 😂 😯 😳 🙃

    Your ideas 💡💡 got the brain wheels ⚙️⚙️ turning . . . 😬 🙃 🤣 ]

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    Yes, agreed 💯%, Padram: ". . . but unless one tries a particular diet, one will not know what works and what doesn't. It is a trial and error method." 👍👍

    Nailed it. 😯🔨

    .

    [And, the ability to fluidly/ flexibly 'change gears' when something is not working ('in the moment') — no matter what 'diet' one follows — is the difference between success & failure, adaptability & rigidity — ability to function within ambiguity & a need to cling to dogma. 🤔 ]

    Clarification: Think a 'diet' serves as a general 'philosophical'(?) overview/ overall/ roadmap 🗺 ? 🤔

    (And, some roadmaps are more accurate/ precise than others, better laid out than others, easier to follow than others, adaptable to different formats than others, etc. . . . 🤔 🤔 🤔 )

    .

    No matter the quality of the roadmap 🗺 , the default/ 'override' of any set/ fixed 'rule' or roadmap or diet . . . is our own personal experience, gawd-given sense, & our attunement to the intimate dance 💃🏻 🕺 between what we put in our mouth & how our body reacts. 🤔

    That's not something a doctor or an 'expert' can tell us at the outset of our journey. 🤔

    That's something we discover 🔎 / learn 👩‍🏫 👨‍🏫 along the way (1st-hand 🖐 ) through personal experience 😖🔨 over time ⏳ .

    We learn/ develop an attunement 🎵 to what our body is signalling 🚦 to us & we figure out HOW to fine tune our practice. 🎶 🎻

    (A long . . . . 🐢 🐢 🐢 . . . slow . . . . 🐌 🐌 🐌 . . . process . . . )

    Blah, blah, blah . . . 😂 😂 😂

    .

  • Thank you Kai for your reply,

    True enough that it is trial and error to a certain extent if we want to discover new things. But there are certainly things we can rule out from our experimenting if we know more about ourselves and about the effects of a certain diet. The AIP diet messed up my metabolism. If I had known what I know today about myself and about the dangers of this diet it would have saved me a lot of time and trouble in my search for what works for me. Every diet offered should be thoroughly examined for its effects and the curative factors understood, as well as eventual adverse effects. Every person who wants to try a specific diet should be helped to understand why this diet might work and also why perhaps it is not the best for him or her. Hopefully we will learn how to use dietary measures for healing better as we go along and experimenting is always central in learning new things.😊

    All the best. xxSimba

  • .

    Fully, agreed, Simba1992. 👍👍

    Beautifully 🌺 said. 😌 🙏

    Hope we can ferret out what the pros 👍 & cons 👎 are to each dietary roadmap ('philosophy') & will be able to figure out HOW they relate to our particular/ unique biological situations. 🙏

    Would love to learn the advantages (& drawbacks) as well as the short-, intermediate-, & long-term consequences of each dietary path . . . 🤔

    Now that would be useful!! 😃

    Don't know HOW it could be done (or IF it could/ would be done) within our lifetime. 🤔

    .

    Yes, fully agree. 👍

    I, too, wish I knew 'then' what I know 'now'. 🙏

    (Hindsight being 20/20. 👓 👀

    If we could only turn back the hands of time 🔙 🤚 🕖 . . . 😌 )

    .

    Unnerving 😧 to think how blithely 😊 with wide-eyed 😃 innocence 👼 & unquestioning trust 🙂 we went along . . . then tripped headlong 🙃 into the pitfalls 🕳 🕳 of what we thought/ believed were 'healthy' dietary practices/ habits . . . 😳 😯

    Oh my . . . how the chickens 🐔 🐔 🐔 have indeed come home to roost . . . 😳 😧

    .

    Live 'n learn . . . 😳

    . . . live 'n learn . . . 🙃

    Don't think there's any way around it . . . 🤔

    .

    At times, think we're a lot of guinea pigs 🐹 🐹 🐹 . . . scampering about (bumping our noggins 🐹💥🚪 into doors) trying to figure out what works best for ourselves. 😳 🤔

    😂 🙃

    .

    Thus, the mystery exists as to WHY some dietary roadmaps/ protocols work for some & fail others . . 🤔 .

    Going to take an awful lot of brainpower 🤓 🤓 🏭 to crack that tough nut 🌰💥⛏ & get that information 📊 📈 📉 out to all of us . . . 🙏

    .

    In meantime, we're left to our own devices 🕵️‍♀️ 🔎 📚 👨‍💻 👩‍🌾 👨‍🍳 👩‍⚕️ 👨‍🔬 to figure out (as best we can) what works well for us & what doesn't.

    It's like trying to change a tyre on a moving car 🚗 . . . 😳

    .

    Yet, we keep trying. 😂 🙃

    .

    [Aside: Don't think there's much choice really? Guess the other option is to sit on the sidelines patiently waiting (if that's our preference) till 'definitive' answers come along? 🤔 Perhaps if we've abundant time ⏳ on our side & a whole lot of confidence that answers are 'right around the corner' & we can afford to wait ⏱ & refrain from researching (& self-experimenting)? 🤔 On the other hand, if we're pressed for time ⌛️ & we've exhausted all other options 💉 💊 . . . , we're more willing/ motivated/ emboldened(?) to 'go out on a limb' 🌳 🌿 as we've 'little to lose' at this point . . . 🤔 🤔 🤔 ]

    Hmm . . . ✨ intriguing ✨ stuff . . . 🤔

    .

    Cheers 🍷💥🍷 >clink<

    . . . . to 'The Guinea Pigs' 🐹 🐹 🐹 . . .

    .

    Keep taking good care of yourself, dear lady. 🙏 😌

    .

    🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

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  • And I also want to say that I have taken a bit from all the diets available and come up with a 'Diet plan that works for me' !

    So I don't follow 'one single diet'.

    It has taken time, and LOTS OF PATIENCE, but I am glad that I am almost fighting fit. ,😀

    In fact, very glad to say that my CRP which was once around 150, is now, ' 3 '.

    Yes, friends, just 3.

    And no medication, except my vitamins, of course.

  • .

    Wowza!! 😱 😯

    150 to 3 CRP!! 😃

    Eye-pop-pingly 😳 ( giphy.com/gifs/ArwQaaN0PLdQ... ) FANTASTIC, Padram!! 👏 👏 💐

    Well done, you!! 🤗 Hold your head high, dear lady!! 😃

    All done sans meds?! 😌 🙏 Exceptional! 😇

    You are a 'living example', Padram, of what can be done. 😌 ☺️

    Smart smart, lady. 🤓

    Like the way you pulled together a composite plan that works for you. A diet 'tailored' to you from existing diets. 👍👍👍

    That's remarkable. 😌 🙏 Truly inspirational ✨. ☺️

    Yes, yes . . . "LOTS OF PATIENCE" . . . 😌 😑 ☺️

    Think people really need to understand that, Padram. 2+ years of working it out for yourself requires saintly 😇 patience. 🙏

    And, I bet how you feel now is worth every bit of effort you expended over that 2+ years. 👍👍

    .

  • Yes Kai, I am elated !!!

    I suppose I have finally found out the combo that works for me !

    I also understand that if I veer away from this combo, I will suffer from flares. Have tried that too, and now I am wiser. ,😀

    I think I would give the honours to the veggie juices. Juice everything except Cabbage, Cauliflower and a particular kind of spinach that is high in oxalate. We , in India, have a huge variety of spinach.

    Moringa leaves could be one important factor, as I get it only in present city I live in, for the past 2 years.

    Sweet potato, pumpkin, ash gourd, and of course, carrots, beets, -- these are part of my every day diet, in juice form.

    I read that in New Zealand, pumpkin is the wonder vegetable for Arthritis. So included that too.

    Lots of buttermilk, no milk whatsoever.

    No added sugar, ever.

    No gluten.

    Lots of fruits.

    And of course, vitamins. Where will I be without them?

    Lots and lots and lots of searching the net.

    Information given here by you and all the wonderful people in this forum.

    Thank you ALL, it would not have been possible, but for YOU ALL.

    And I almost forgot. Listening to 'Singing bowl meditation videos, OM chants, and ANY TYPE OF MUSIC, ACCORDING TO MY MOOD - JAZZ, METAL, ROCK, POP, BOLLYWOOD, REGIONAL MUSIC, CLASSICAL- INDIAN AND WESTERN..,in all DON'T EVER ALLOW MYSELF TO BE DEPRESSED.

    A LITTLE EXCERCISE NOW AND THEN.

    😉

  • .

    Very, very good to know, Padram. 👍👍

    Exactly! Once we've found a combo that works well for us, we 'stay the course'.

    Thank you for beautifully noting foods & techniques that work well for you. 🙏

    We do indeed all learn from each other. 😌 🙏 ☺️

    Ahhh . . . now here's a Singing Bowl Meditation ( 😮 🎶 🍚 😑 ) for anyone who's curious:

    .

    [For anyone looking for more SBMs, here's google search results of "Singing Bowl Meditation videos": google.com/search?as_q=Sing... ]

    .

    Keep well, dear lady . . . keep well . . . 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

    .

  • Yes I do so agree with you Kai, we need to keep on trying and believing that there is a solution where life and wellbeing are the governing forces, where dysfunctions of the body can be corrected instead of ignored and where the symptom oriented medical approach gradually gives way for a more holistic view of health and wellbeing.

    True we are very much still fumbling in the dark both when AI meds and diets are concerned. They may work for someone but not for another and we just don't know enough to understand why this is so.

    😊👍🏻xxSimba

  • .

    Love ❤️ the way you eloquently sum it up 'on point' giphy.com/gifs/3oKIPoVrguTp... , Simba. Fewest words with deepest impact. 😌 🙏

    Your 'the dude' (or should we say 'dude-ette'), dear lady. ☺️ "The dude abides" 👍👍 :

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  • 😊😊😂🙏🏻

  • Kai, wanted to say almost everything you have.

    By 'diet', I only meant 'food' Not any of the diets that are said to cure or keep in remission, any disease.

    I have been, and still am, on a trial and error method. 2 years back I changed the way I ate food.

    I have been a vegetarian all my life, but only now have I realised that the same food, eaten differently, makes a BIG difference.

    By a quirk of fate, I got ITP. But it has been an eye opener. I now advice my children, friends, and whoever will listen.

    I have had years of bloating, gerd, even though i never consumed oily food. Indian cuisine uses a lot of oil in cooking.

    Today I understand it is not just wheat, or dairy, or raw salad, that is the culprit. BUT ANYTHING THAT I CAN'T DIGEST.

    Like you said, what agrees today, might not agree tomorrow , simply because, we are not in same state of mind, every day. Rather, our feelings, thoughts, keep changing by the minute. Indian philosophy says, Our emotions have a very big role in our digestion.

    Today, western researchers agree that the gut is the second brain.

    So, like you said, any medication or food, (sorry I used the word diet, earlier) will behave differently with different people.

    And we are Petri dishes with legs. Brought a smile.

  • .

    No worries. Like your calling out distinction between 'food' & 'diet', Padram. 🤔 👍👍 Good point. 👍

    Like your highlighting the WAY we eat food as being just as important as what we eat.

    .

    What's 'piling cooking'? 🤔

    .

    Love the gut as '2nd brain' concept❣️ Brilliant!! So true.

    (We 'think' we're 'running the show' but our 2nd brain (gut) is a driving force that has an awful lot of say in what we desire, crave, & are eventually compelled to pop into our mouth . . . 😂 😂 🤣 . . .

    Funny, funny creatures we are . . . thinking we're (our cranial 💀 brain/ mind) is driving the 'vehicle' (2-legged 🚶 & 4-wheeled 🚘 ) , but a few kilograms/ pounds of gut bacteria are fiddling with the pedals & twiddling the steering wheel . . .😳 😄 🤣

    .

  • Hi Kai, 'piling'was a typo. I corrected it to ' oil in cooking',😊

  • .

    Ahh . . . 😌 ☺️ . . . makes sense. 👍 🙏

    [Thought it was some new/ unfamiliar 'cooking technique' — like 'piling' veg into a steamer basket . . . 🙃 😄 ]

    .

  • Hi,

    I have been a vegan for years- and a vegetarian since I was 6- for ethical reasons. I have very aggressive PSA. I don't know if it would be worse if I hadn't been. My advice would be to be very careful with your vegan diet- make sure you're getting proper, healthy meals. And then deal with your disease separately. If you 're doing it for ethical reasons ( Good on you!) then any reduction in your pain/ inflammation is an extra. If you want any advice about vegan cooking feel free to ask/ PM me- I'm a rubbish cook but my wife was a vegan chef:-) x

    Good luck

  • I really want to be vegan, but where i live is really hard so when someone offer me something i can’t say no because i’m worried to sound rude. Veganism is not very accepted. I’m followed by a nutritionist and i do periodical blood test so no worries about deficiencies. Honestly the only things that i fail at cooking are baked goods and also tiramisu. I’m italian and it was one of my favourite desserts, but i can hardly eat the traditional recipe because it makes my stomach sick. I have a huge sweet tooth, so the struggle is real here.

  • There are loads of sweets/ puddings that you can make that are vegan. I have a huge sweet tooth as well- no need to go without anything;-) x

  • Could you message me some of your favourite recipes? I would really appreciate it x

  • Of course- though it'll prob be this evening. What are your favourite things/ flavours? X

  • The only thing that i really don’t like is banana bread. I’m a chocoholic so everything with chocolate is perfect. I love apple&cinnamon, pumpkin, almonds (any kind of nuts really). I like both cakes and tarts. I /love/ croissant and brioches!! One thing that i liked when i tried it was the typical christmas pudding, but i never made it traditionally so i don’t know where to start if i wanted to make it vegan.

    Sorry for the long reply... i get really excited when i talk about sweets 😅

    No pressure by the way, when you got time i’m here x

  • How about a vegan chocolate courgette cake? Quite gooey (like tiramisu). It's one of my favorites especially in summer whe. We have more courgettes than we can cope with.

  • I’ll try that in the summer, in the winter we don’t really buy courgettes since they are usually imported. I eat just seasonal and local foods, maybe it sounds weird but that’s how i was raised! 🤷🏻‍♀️

  • Yes, at this time of year it's usually pumpkin chocolate cake (and have just put one in the oven) but that's not vegan as needs an egg to rise as pumpkin is heavier than courgette.

  • Pumpkin chocolate cake sounds delicious! I’ll try to find a vegan recipe, i love pumpkin in every form.

  • Egg replacer mixed with water would would. Depends what the egg is for, I'm told by wife... she uses all sorts of things, such as chia seeds, ground flax etc.

    Pumpkin chocolate cake- you have made me very hungry Helix Helix

    x

  • Hi, I have scanned some recipes in and hopefully I'll be able to PM these to you...

    Otherwise, books like: 'Return of The Cake Scoffer' and 'Vegan cupcakes take over the world' are great:-)

  • Hi,

    I'm struggling to upload the recipe scans. Anyone any ideas?

    So here's one to keep you going...

    Lemon Explosion Cake:

    4oz margarine (We use Vitalite or Pure. Any oil rather than animal marg would be fine)

    6oz Self raising flour

    1tsp Baking powder

    6oz Caster sugar

    4 oz Soya milk

    Egg replacer- equivalent to two eggs

    4tbsp soya milk

    1 grated lemon rind

    Juice of lemon whose rind you grated

    4oz icing sugar

    1) Sift flour, baking powder, lemon rind and sugar

    2) Melt marg. Add it to dry ingredients along with egg replacer (mixed with water as per packet directions) and soya milk

    3)Mix briefly until all the flour is mixed in. You might need to add another tbsp of soya milk, but don't overdo it as the mix should be quite stiff and thick

    4) Spoon mixture into a greased bread tin or small cake tin. Bake at gas mark 4 (175c) for 40 mins.

    5) Add the lemon juice to the icing sugar to make lemon icing. As soon as you have removed the cake from the oven, pour the whole lot onto the cake and spread. The icing seeps into the cake. Eat!!

    Simple biscuits:

    6 oz (150g) plain flour

    2 oz (50g) caster sugar

    100g (4 oz) vegan margarine

    Makes 24 cookies.

    You can add anything you like: vegan cho chips, vegan smarties, raisins, coconut, ginger, cocoa powder, nuts , sugar strands etc etc to make them any flavour(s) you want. Apple and cinnamon are good!

    1) Put all ingredients in the bowl. 2. Rub it together. 3) Make a ball of it. 4) Roll into little balls 5) squash em into biscuits. 6) Bake for 15- 20 mins at 170/ gas mark 3

    These are very simple recipes -you can make everything vegan. If you want chocolate bars etc, look at the 'Animal Aid sho[p' online. Moo Free stuff is delicious!

    Lx

  • You could email me if i give you my address in pm? And Thank you for this and the suggestions above!

  • Yes, that would work!

  • .

    Supplemental dessert ideas (in meantime, till LizzieR gets back to you), sarayar, from Josefine's Raw Kitchen videos 📹 ( m.youtube.com/channel/UC6X4... ) shows "How To" prepare scrumptious sweets: chocolate cake 🍫 🍰 , hot chocolate 🔥 🍫, cinnamon rolls 🌀 , ginger cookies 🍪 , raspberry hearts 💓 , ice cream trifles 🍦, carob milkshake {{🥛}} . . . (Some quick 'n easy, some taking more time/ prep, . . . all delicious 😋 ) ☺️

    .

    [Oh . . . Don't know if these treats would interest you too, rosie1928? 🤔 (They're for later phases (of PP process) once it's 'safe' for your gut to 'trial & error test' without unwanted side effects.)] 😋

    .

  • Yes you also have to watch your iron levels. Mine were down due to the vegan diet. Good to study the veges that have high iron. I find that I cannot tolerate too many raw vegetables (eg salad) while my son is fine. Will post some great recipes soon. "Cooking with Plants" on utube is my favourite site. She has some very simple affordable recipes.

    Rosie

  • Hi Rosie 1928, I too don't digest raw vegetables. But juicing them, as also leafy greens, has changed my health immensely. No digestion issues when I juice them. Veggies I juice raw, but leafy greens, I boil for a couple of minutes, then juice them along with the water. Hope you find this useful.

  • Thanks for that Padram. I love cooked spinach but unless I juice it ....it sits in the fridge forlorn and forgotten. I will try the boiling tip. My son does most of the cooking and he keeps insisting I eat everything raw but I have Irritable bowel Syndrome.

    I am slowly finding my way to better eating.

  • I try to eat as many raw vegetable as possible, but i digest them maybe too well?? They satiate me on the moment but after an hour i’m already hungry. Also a nurse in the hospital said that if i eat something with high levels of vitamin c (like lemons, orange juice...) it helps absorbing the iron in the vegetables. I don’t know if that’s true but my iron never went low. My rheumy doesn’t agree and keeps pushing me to eat meat. That’s one thing that i‘ll never do. If i have to, i’ll supplement it.

  • I doubt it's you digesting raw veg too well, nobody will feel full for longer than about an hour on them & they can make you very windy if you don't eat bread or another carb with them, you need a balanced plan not just raw veg if you're eating this way regularly. Do you think you're lacking in something, with you fainting I mean? I wonder if you'd benefit having your bloods tested for anaemia & from seeing a nutritionalist for advice & a healthy eating plan?

  • Oh, i didn’t mean i eat only raw vegetables! On the contrary i often eat cooked vegetables and i always try to have balanced meals with protein, carbs, veggies and fats. I mean, i’m italian so we put olive oil on literally everything. I also eat nuts and seeds for extra health. Right now i supplement vitamin D (basically since i was diagnosed and i had to take steroids, my levels were scary-low...) and i’m just starting with the omega 3, even if i eat chia and flax seeds my nutritionist wants to be sure i’m not missing anything. She also told me to ask if i could increase my folic acid, so i will definitely be talking about this issue (both for my health and mtx) . I also have my blood taken every 3 months. Right now i don’t have any deficiencies! Sorry if i didn’t explain myself very well!!

  • No, I didn't think you did. I'm pleased to hear you see a Nutritionist though, but are raw veg part of her recommended snack suggestions? I would have thought she'd be on top on what's fulfilling & sustainable. You need to watch your sugar intake too, plus include protein, it's important if you're turning vegan as you need a proper balanced diet. I eat a mainly Mediterranean diet, live in sun-less UK & the only supplements I take are Omega 3 fish oil & prescription AdCal-D3, all my levels are fine including Vitamin D. Best if you can get all you your Vitamins through food rather than supplementing, a heck of a sight cheaper too!

  • .

    Supplemental perspectives on 'Oils'/Olive Oil: healthunlocked.com/ra-warri...—-not-popeyes-olive-oyl

    .

  • And i also eat (vegan) protein bars and bread, i’m trying to build up some muscles that i lost when i was paralyzed from RA, but the exercising part is tough.

  • It may very well be that you are not digesting raw vegetables too well, this is certainly not rare and the same with me. I need to cook all my vegetables to help my digestion. Your rheumy may very well be right in you needing more proteins. If you do not want to eat meat or fish you really need to get it somewhere. For the body to work optimally you need protein, fat and carbs in the right proportions. It you don't you may mess up your metabolism, unfortunately something many do when trying out diets, forgetting to check with their bodies.

  • To be honest my only problem is eating way too many carbs. I’m italian and as you may imagine pasta and bread is a staple in our kitchen! Other than that, as i said before, i tend to eat pretty balanced meals with the right amount of everything most of the times.

  • Leaving gluten and grains has been of good help for me and to many others. For me leaving bread was something that made me sad but for me, necessary. Pasta has gluten but also starch which is not a good way to get carbs. Fruits are seen as very beneficial source of carbs. I, along with many others have found orange juice a good way to get good carbs. Orange juice has a low glucemic factor which means that it does not spike your sugar levels like pasta for example.

    Nuts and seeds work against the thyroid. Checking the full thyroid panel is often a good idea. Low body temp and high colesterol often tell you to examine thyroid function more closely.

    Finding the best diet for your body is not easy if you are grappeling with a AI disease but it is possible especially if you follow up your bloods and your metabolic rate. Low body temp often gives you info about that something is not working optimally.

    Good luck, all the best, Simba

  • Indeed i don’t eat so much pasta as before... but bread is just. So Good. But i also eat tons of fruit because i always loved it. Anyway, i always had a low body temperature, never changed. Even when i was a toddler. I’m trying to understand my body and what he’s asking me, what he wants. It’s difficult sometimes. Thank you for your reply! x

  • Hi again,

    Funny thing, I like so many others that are suffering from AI have had low body temp all their lives. Not until I started looking into what was really going on in my body, and had in fact been going on for a very long time, did I get a better understanding of how I could support normal functioning the best way.

    Low body temp actually tells you that the energy production in your cells is not optimal. The more energy the better health. In AI it has been shown that the mitochondrial function i dysfunctional and also infact that glucose metabolism that gives the main fuel to the energy production is not working as it should.

    Very often with low temp comes sex hormonal imbalance with different symptoms as well as a lazy thyroid. In my case I could see all these connections and have in fact with diet and supplements normalized my body temp and feel so much more energetic and so much clearer in my mind. Complicated, yes😊Taking an active part in the treatment process, not only where meds are concerned but especially in understanding the whole picture is essential. xxSimba

  • .

    Buckwheat, quinoa ( healthunlocked.com/nras/pos... ) good/ generally 'safe'/ non-inflammatory (or 'less' inflammatory) sources of protein for many autoimmuners. 🤔

    .

  • .

    "Cooking with Plants" Anja Cass:

    📹 YouTube: m.youtube.com/channel/UCh2C...

    🕸 Website: cookingwithplants.com/

    .

    Many, many thanks, 🌹-ie 1928. 🙏 😌

    .

  • You’ve been so helpful, thank you!!! x

  • .

    Very welcome, sarayar. 🙏 😌 Please keep taking as good a care of yourself as possible. 🙏 I suspect (because you're still young 👼 ) you're body can more readily redirect it's course toward healing/ wellness & you've a high probability of resounding success. 👍👍 You'll be able to live a full, joyous life & in good time & (hopefully 🤞🤞) place disease in the rear-view mirror. 🙏 🍀 🌺 🌞

    .

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