Kefir ?

On a lighter note I am looking into making kefir which is supposed to be an excellent probiotic drink for a healthy gut. Its easy to make and ferments continuously enabling you to keep making more. Sorry my explanation is vague but I am new to this. I am going vegan and looking into healthy options and kefir keeps cropping up. Sure someone here will have some insight. Kai maybe?

57 Replies

  • Hi Cathy. I too am looking into gut health at the moment and making kefi so will look to others opinions as well, and our helpful Kai.

  • Its usually made with milk kefir but my vegan version is made from water kefir. It sounds great!

  • Thanks Cathy. I don't drink milk either but do have bio yogurt. What is your recipe, was going to go and look in Holland and Barratt. Thank you.

  • On YouTube look up How to make water kefir - Raw Nourishment. I can't send link to here I am too stupid! I haven't watched it all but she does say look on eBay for the kefir which was my first task. We can learn together!

  • Thanks Cathy will look on both YouTube and eBay, not sure I could send a link either as not tried, will ask a small child as they say. My grandchildren are very good though at tech stuff. Will keep in touch. Good luck to us.

  • This is the YouTube I found first. I ordered the water kefir off eBay so once that arrives I will see how it goes.

  • Hi Cathie, wasn't sure about the water one, may try the milk one as nearer to yogurt. Am fussy about drinks, I drink herbal teas and water on a daily basis, let me know how you get on and what it tastes like, someone mentioned it's a bit sweet. Good luck.

  • OK Gigi I found a couple of good ones but the best is on YouTube. If you can access that I will get you the link. If not I have another one I could let you have. I have just ordered the water kefir on eBay from a reputable seller who also sends instructions with it and offers telephone help if needed. You in UK?

  • Thanks Kai

    A lot to peruse there! I am already vegetarian but want to go vegan. I drink lots of coconut, almond and nut milks. I eat lots of dhal and pulses. Not cooking much now days as its too exhausting but have lots of smoothies with kale etc. I am having a B12 blood test soon to see if I am OK now. Its just dairy I have to contend with. I like milk in tea and I will miss that!

    Are you a meat eater?

  • That is all of great interest to me thanks. I shall not go far wrong with you around! :-)

  • I should be 9 stone and am 10 due to steroids and tamoxifen so that would be great!

  • Yes I need to give this some serious thought!

  • Thanks for this reminder, Kai. I have been meaning to have a go at Kombucha tea.

    Not sure it is doing me any good, but something I do enjoy is apple cider vinegar. As well as at home, I also have a bottle on the windowsill at work. My colleague is disgusted when I show her the mother!

  • I have ordered some of that peculiar looking scoby. I don't think I will be keeping it at work. It is far too alien looking and I think it would be a step too far for my colleague!

    I drink the ACV with a little raw honey and warm water. Like the probiotics you list and the fresh juices, it has live enzymes. My husband used to drink Aspinalls brand and I thought it was disgusting. I have tried others brands since and some are really quite palatable.

    I tried kombucha tea in Glastonbury recently and was pleasantly surprised by it. I used to make country wines, so look forward to brewing some kombucha.

  • I used to make country wines, so am used to things brewing and fermenting in my kitchen!

    I found ACV is good for home-made mint sauce too. With some of the other vinegars, you need to add sugar, but this is sweet enough without and so simple to make.

    No, my husband diluted the Aspalls brand, although I don't think he added honey. He took it for kidney health, yet he won't touch the stuff I drink.

    My latest creative project is to find a healthy vegan gluten-free chocolate brownie recipe, using chick peas.

  • I doubt I will attempt kombucha! Its far too difficult and messy. I think kefir is my limit. I may make kefir coconut yoghurt though.

  • Yes talking of photos how do I put them on here? I only use my phone and wonder if I need a computer access. HELP. I will consider sending some yoghurt if you help me add photos.

  • Oh yes I just got an ice cream making machine. Making ice cream with coconut milk. Yummy.

  • I can put up a photo but I want to put a profile photo and I can't do this. :-(

  • Oh I only use mobile phone or tablet:-(

  • I have a laptop somewhere but its too much trouble to locate it. Another forum I am on automatically used my google photo without even asking me! That is one cool cat!

  • Let us/me know how you get on and how it makes you feel - sounds very interesting - I haven't heard of it before x

  • I will Lorna. I am waiting to receive my kefir and will give it a go. You may like to see the YouTube vids that Kai has linked me to in his message. I am doing it vegan style but you can do it with milk. Or coconut water etc. There are various options. I do think there is some truth in getting the gut clean and healthy. I am in so much pain and misery I am willing to go all out to help myself. All the drugs I have been, and am still, taking since 2011 have not made me any better. X

  • Poor Cathy777,

    I am very sorry to know that you are still in great pain after that many years of treatment. I do believe diets and medication should work hand in hand. Do let us know how you go after the kefir thing.

  • Thank you! I am being tested for possible nerve damage soon so that may enlighten me as to why I get constant pain along side RA pain.


  • Keep us posted after the test. This may happen to anyone of us one day in future, we do not know.

  • I certainly will. Someone told me if your nerves die they can't repair so I hope its not that severe. Don't know much about nerve damage. X

  • I read that too. Because one of the numbness in my left hand could be due to the nerve trapped along my left hand all the way up to the neck that control the hand, hence my rheumy sent me for the X-Ray. However, she did not call me for MRI that meant I left with the possibility of vitamin B12 deficiency. I am glad to know this really but I yet to ask her in person when I see her next in Nov.

    The related posting is in the link below:

  • Oh that is exactly what I am experiencing. I have US tests on hands and wrists to see what's going on. On my left hand 3 fingers are very numb but I am also getting pain in my wrists. The bio drug which I have taken seems to have helped the RA a bit but this must be something different. Keep me up to date with your B12 test. I am having one next week coincidentally as I am now vegan.

  • Sure, I will update you since we have similar problem. You do let me know after you take the vitamin B12, will it helps to reduce the numbness and pain in your hand.

    In my case, I have to wait for the next visit in Nov to know if I should take the vitamin B12. Right now that is the only possibility because the rests have been ruled out at this very moment.

  • I asked my GP for a B12 blood test purely because I am vegan but I didn't know it could be the cause of this hand problem. You can get B12 supplements. It seems unlikely that my pain is due to B12 but we shall see. I have my nerve test in early October so that may show something. I hope you find yours is B12 and that you can resolve your problem.

  • Below is my update on the numbness, pins and tinglings on my left hand. There are a few possibilities for that to happen. It is always good to share information really. I will not buy the vitamin B12 on my own, I will wait for the rheumy to prescribe for me and get it from the pharmacy in the hospital to avoid any problem in getting the wrong one. I am a very careful person in this area. :-)

  • Yes me too. I see many B12 supplements but like you will only take it if my doctor gives it to me. I have had B12 tests in the past but it has always been fine so interested to see if this has changed. Its just frustrating having to wait for appointments when you are feeling pain.

  • Yes, the waiting time is really crazy when we are in pain. Sometimes if I cannot take the pain, I just walk in. Over here, I was told I can do that if needed.

    Just keep each other inform of the outcome and let us see what best for us.

  • Kings College in the UK has done a clinical trial on probiotics. The majority of probiotics products do not survive the stomach acid. A product called Symprove containing probiotics did.

    Research in New York has proven that us RAers have an excessive amount of gut bacteria called P. copri in our bowels. They are still trying to figure out why,how and what does this mean and what to do about it....So with this knowledge about the excessive amount of p. copri one of the trials that is happening is...ugh ....uhm...fecal matter transplant. FMT is already being used in medical procedures to treat clostridium difficile infections since the 1960's.

  • I saw something about fecal transplants on TV recently in relation to obese people having huge appetites and when they have a fecal transplant from a thin person they get thinner! Interesting stuff. I still want to try this kefir though! Thanks for that info.

  • Please keep us up dated on the kefir.

  • One of the other (more alternative) forums I'm on often discusses things like fecal transplants and helminthic therapy. Makes me feel queasy just thinking about them!

    I looked into Symprove, Suzannedale. I couldn't believe how expensive it was! If it works though, shouldn't it be available on the NHS?

  • I looked up symprove too. Way to expensive for me. suzanne is in US so maybe they get it on insurance. Even if it were available on NHS it would be so costly we would need special funding like for bios. Plus its alternative not an exact drug. So we will just continue to suffer!

  • I'm in British Columbia, Canada and Symprove isn't available here. I live close to the US boarder and it isn't available in the US either.

  • I tried apple cider vinegar and it did nothing but I was put on it by a sprightly old lady of 90ish who swore by it!

  • I never intended to make people believe that gut bacteria is the cause of RA or other immune conditions. It's one of the great unknown what causes RA. I just ment to say that resarch done in New York discovered RA people have excess P Copi bacteria in their boweI The NRS should be aware of this. Just like Health Canada and the USA's FDA. The World Health Organization is aware of this too. They Just don't quite understand what this "find" actually means. Excess P Copri is just part of the puzzel.

    As for the Symprove clinical trial, I'm sure the NHS is aware of this trial as it was done at Kings College in the UK. Which is part of the NHS. I am not stating Symprove will cure RA. I was just stating Symprove was the only probiotic that survived our stomach acid and lived "survived" in our bowels. What this means is anyones guess.

  • No I understand. Many do feel that gut bacteria has an impact on RA tho. I guess its just a matter of trying to make our whole bodies as healthy as possible in the hope it does help our immune system to behave as it should. It is all still a big mystery I agree. But autoimmune diseases are such a major cause of so many illnesses.

  • Oh I'm sorry Cathy777 , I was addressing Em13 statement of why the NHS didn't offer it if it works. I was trying to explain that I never claimed that it works for RA. I was just stating Symprove passed a clinical trial.

    Yes it is always good to keep our body as healthy as possible. Who knows what causes auto immune? Might be the gut, might be the enviroment, our genes,etc. Hopefully a cure is found soon.

  • I have looked into gut health/microbiome, Suzannedale, and I believe it is very important in addressing immune conditions. The prevotella copri thing is unclear to me though - a chicken and egg situation. There is a link. I wish now that I had studied medical science! I have a hard enough time trying to understand different kinds of cells and cytokines!

    Being so new to all this, I feel I need to understand what is happening with my body and where it all begins to go wrong. I refuse to label it arthritis because this is something which affects the whole body, not just the joints.

  • A lot of people say Rheumatoid disease instead of Rheumatoid arthritis.

    I like the statement "the chicken or the egg". I think I will refer to what causes RA this way. I just want a cure to be found :)

  • Fecal transplants aren't alternative proceedures when it comes to life threatening bowel diseases.

    Research is now being done in clinical medical trials for auto immune diseases.

  • I was refering to yogurts and certain foods that promote probiotics. I found the clinical trial at Kings College interesting.

  • Expensive though it is, I thought Symprove worth a try if it helps, especially as I don't like most fermented foods. Took my first dose this morning. (Usually I take the Now brand of probiotic.) Will keep you posted.

  • Yes be interested to hear how it goes. You in UK?

  • I am in the UK! At present I have a four week supply of the original flavour. Can't say it was particularly pleasant, but I will chug it down. I will continue with my usual prebiotic too.

    My scoby arrived today, so I look forward to brewing some kombucha tea too. That should be quite palatable I think, unlike juiced sauerkraut.

  • Great information, suzannedale. I hope they can find a solution to that to help us all the RA patients.

  • Thank you Kai for posting the video of how to make Kefir. My friend makes the one with milk, I find that one awful tasting. I never heard of the water one. I shall give it a try.

  • Sorry I'm late to this party. I have to say that kombucha is delicious and so easy to make. I.have a scoby hotel and I make kombucha often I always feel good when I am drinking it. Super good for the gut.

  • Oh you are tempting me now!

  • I'm sorry that it sounded like I was promoting Symprove. I have never tried or bought Symprove. I don't even know if it is available in Canada (where I live)

    I have a passion for all clinical trials that involve helping RA symptoms and the new and upcoming treatments. It's not about being right or wrong on what we believe helps RA symptoms. For me it is about what passes clinical trials from around the world. I've been know to say that I would eat "used" kitty litter if it passed a reputalbe college trial. lol.

    I was just very impressed that the reputable Kings College had run a clinical trial on probiotics. The trial was run like a drug trial. I was surprised that it passed the trial as the other popular products failed as it entered the stomach acids. Although probiotic foods are nourishing for our bodies, the "good" bacteria dies once it enters our stomach acids, I was surprised Symprove's bacteria remained alive in the bowels.

    Am i mistaken that the goal of probiotics is to enter and survive our stomach acid and enter alive into our colon to promote "good" gut bacteria? I shall look up Symprove and see if it is available in Canada.

  • Oh we know you are not promoting this stuff! But everything that can help us is important to know about and you are our unpaid researcher for which I am grateful! Its on sale here but is very pricy and you need to take it for a good while. It is more for IBS I think but would hopefully help RAs?. I think we have to do what we can within our means. I hope to win the lottery tonight and will treat us all to a year's supply! Wouldn't that be nice?