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Paleo diet

Has anyone had good results trying the paleo diet ? I am aware of food sensitivities but have never been disciplined enough to really tackle my diet. I think I might give it a try while I'm on the steroids and before I'm offered the 'big meds'. If some improvement can be made naturally it seems worth a go. It will be an austere Christmas though.

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Thank you for your kind advice.. I will look into it. I have always eaten loads of natural unsweetened yoghurt thinking it was good for my gut, but maybe not. I guess it is trial and error. I will report back if There is a linked improvement.

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Thank you

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The paleo diet is plant based, contrary to people's misperceptions. One of the tag lines is "more vegetables than a vegetarian." However, from what I've read, you can't get all the nutrients your body needs without also consuming meat. Don't have to eat a pound of bacon each day, but certainly there is good nutrition in bone broths, coldwater fish, grassfed meats, etc.

I suggest checking out perfecthealthdiet.com, robbwolf.com, and marksdailyapple.com.

Good reads include Grain Brain by Dr Perlmutter and Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudus

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Thank you, Karen. I shall check out those references

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If you think its down to gluten then you must get a test from the GP and you MUST be eating it. I'm Celiac and to be honest its made no difference at all and I fail to see how an autoimmune disease can be affected by diet. Not only that but if you avoid animal foods (talking meat not rubbish) then you can be Vit B12 deficient. So it should if you think it works it probably will but not for me I'd kill to east a sticky donut, a round of toast and ginger nut biscuits and they used to make RA just a bit more bearable and I'm not overweight either.

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Just for my experiment of one, I removed gluten from my diet and immediately felt better. I have a tbsp of regular soy sauce with my sushi, and the entire next day I've got a migraine. I'd rather just go off and stay off gluten then have a test to tell me that it is or isn't coeliac. For me, the resukt would be the same. I know i'm better without it, so whether or not I got a CD diagnosis, I won't touch it.

I realize that what works for one doesn't always work for others.

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The thing is Celiac has links to stomach cancer so its vital to be checked if any suspicion of Celiac, and the camera down the throat after the blood test. Celiac is auto immune as well so all linked. Its not to do with feeling better and its not headache either. If you feel better I'm pleased for you but would urge you to get tested in any event to be sure.

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Thank you. I haven't been tested and don't actually know if I do react strongly to wheat. Sugar I am aware of. There is just general advice to omit wheat in cases of inflammation. I will discuss with my GP

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Its not just wheat but barley, rye, its in beer, crisps, nearly all cereal but strangely enough not generally in soy. Look up the Celiac website for list of foods too many to list here and can depend on brand, factory of production etc. On the bright side not in fudge! lol x

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I thought the only treatment for CD was to avoid gluten. So personally, I'd rather not put my body through torture just to see if I might get a positive diagnosis. I'd rather tell a doctor that I obviously have a problem with gluten and they can help me keep an eye out for any future symptoms that may spell out stomach cancer. I'm pretty much susceptible to any cancer or illness based on my diagnosed AI diseases and drug therapies, so I'll leave it at that.

To each their own, I suppose.

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It is the only solution, but you have to have a test eating gluten to get a proper and definitive result, the camera is then used to see the damage to the villi in the tum. The total exclusion of gluten heals the villi, but it was stressed to me that it may be too late by the time you get symptoms so leaving it is not really an option; hence its vital to be checked if you have a problem. Having said that IBS and Celiac can be similar in symptoms so in my view its best to be sure. I had a mammogram today in my view prevention is always better than risk. But its not hard to avoid gluten just best not to confuse a life style choice which may or may not impact on RA with a real medical disease which is also AI related which has a higher incidence of cancer. I take the new blood thinner Riveroxaban it prevents me from taking NSAIDS and to me I've had enough ill health and close brushes with death this year to say, if a simple blood test can cut my risks then bring it on. lol x

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Thanks for this. I wasn't aware of this test. You have had such a rough time by the sound of things I understand why having the test is important.

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But the blood test doesn't reduce my risk. Whether or not I have a 10% chance of stomach cancer or a 90% chance of stomach cancer doesn't actually make a difference. It's not like I can take anti-cancer medication. The prescription is the same - avoid gluten.

I'm already happily avoiding gluten.

You can't make me eat it! I wont'! :)

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Its perspective I do not eat gluten because of the Celiac Disease but believe that knowing is better than not. I'd kill for a donut or a bit of real toast !lol x

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Haha. And I'd rather avoid them like poison! :)

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I do feel better when I don't eat certain things. Who knows,worth a try

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the reason why I personally don't like the paleo diet is because if you are suffering from an autoimmune disease and are following a strict paleo diet there is a lot of research out there that suggests that eating a lot of meat is no good for the body because it can be very acidic. They also say that eating a high protein/high fat diet is no good for people who suffer with ra.

However even if you continue to eat meat just make sure that you eat this with a salad and maybe think about keeping a food diary.

You might want to think about reading some books called the starch solution by dr mcdougall, the forks over knives plans and I am also really enjoying reading this book amazon.co.uk/Medical-Medium...

eat a diet that works for you and your body however I will say since I became vegan and start taking certain supplements etc this has really helped my ra.

Best of luck with everything.

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Thank you. Your point about meat sounds sensible. I have only just been diagnosed, having had fibromyalgia for a number of years. I am careful with my diet, but will explore further modifications. If there is anything that will strengthen my immune system a bit, I'll give it a go.

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if you are worried about your diet. You could always try and find a naturopath and get them to test you for food intolerances. Of course what works for one person does not always work for someone else but I have personally found that since I started seeing a holistic therapist/functional health practitioner and getting certain tests done/looked into healing my gut etc etc. This has really helped keep my ra under control. I am slowly starting to wean my self off meds that I have been on as well. If you use facebook or just google the medicial medium he talks a lot about ra and nighshade foods etc etc. Hope things work out for you.

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Serendipity, I had just been looking for a local naturopath on the Internet. As you say, good to have someone help and guide you through it. I think I have found someone who sounds suitable. Thank you for your input

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just be careful who you see some people are better than others. If you have not done this already you may want to ask him or her if they had experience with ra patients before you see them. If you have a good functional health practioner where you live or can Skype someone then you may also want to look into this as an option .. a lot of functional health practitioners will either work with dr's or are dr's. Good luck.

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Do be a bit carefully about supplements that promise to "strengthen" your immune system. Having RA means that your immune system is over active, so the last thing you want to do is boost it even further. I've been told not to take things like echinacea.

However, if by strengthen your immune system you mean make sure you have a full and balanced diet, exercise and rest so that your metabolism is in tip top condition then go for it!

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Thanks. The immune system is very complex I know. I had fibromyalgia for 6 years, ME before that. There was little they could do with conventional medicine so I used alternative therapies, and supplements, mainly vitamins. I will discuss this with my doctor. It is all a bit of a minefield

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A paleo diet means eating real foods in their most natural state. So, granola bar = NOT paleo, apple = paleo.

You're not force-fed a bound of bacon on top of a steak with a whole chicken on the side if you decide to "go paleo". One of the common paleo hashtags in social media is #morevegetablesthanavegetarian. For the paleo pundits that actually spell things out for you, they want you to have about 9 cups of leafy greens a day. There is no way that you can be eating "so much meat" if you've got that much spinach, kale, cabbage and lettuce to shove down your gullet!

Also, I think the type of meat matters. Cows that have been fed junkfood (i.e. a grain-based diet) will be more acidic than cows that have been raised on pasture. If you want more precision, try Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet. He talks about optimal servings of particular meat per week. I believe his suggestion is to eat coldwater fish and seafood about 5 times a week, organ meats from grass-fed ruminants (cows, goats, sheep) about 5 times per week, muscle meats from those ruminants (ie steaks) 1-2 times per week. and pork and chicken no more than 1-2 times per week. (So bacon with breakfast on Sunday morning would be your ONLY bacon for the week!)

I think you should make an informed choice, and certainly this isn't the right forum for that. Try robbwolf.com, perfecthealthdiet.com, marksdailyapple.com for the why, and nomnompaleo.com, everydaypaleo.com, and againstallgrain.com for some great recipes.

While it may come to pass that the paleo diet (or the autoimmune protocol version of the paleo diet) is not the "best" diet for people struggling with autoimmune disease, I refuse to believe that it could hurt or make things worse to eat this way. You don't get sick eating real food. Our greatgrandparents didn't get sick eating homemade meals from scratch every day, including organ meats. And I have a hard time believing that NOT eating sugary cereal, chocolate bars or candy could be bad for anyone.

I have heard a lot of people do better eating vegetarian and vegan, and while I think that might be better than a standard western diet, I think it's only a temporary solution. There have been enough studies to show that humans are built to be omnivores and can only get all the nutrients they need from a diet that includes meat and meat by-products (like bone broth). It's really worth searching out paleo websites to understand what it means, and magazines or news article doesn't count.

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This is a really interesting booklet by Arthritis research UK about diet. It's well worth a read.

arthritisresearchuk.org/~/m...

Becky

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Thanks, Becky. That looks good. I have downloaded it

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I've changed my diet, and this does seem to have helped me. I still take drugs - lots of them - but they work well and I really don't have any side effects from them, and I put this down to good diet, exercise & sleep. So I don't follow any particular "diet", but basically don't eat rubbish or processed food, and eat loads of fish & veg, some dairy and occasional meat. And I don't deny myself treats, as feeling that I'm depriving myself doesn't work for me, but I've adjusted them - so a small amount of high content dark chocolate rather than a whole bar of poor quality milk chocolate for example.

The booklet bpeal above linked to is worth reading, it's basically what I do.

However I do think what you believe is important as the mind is a powerful thing, so if you believe in the paleo diet then give it a try.

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I do agree about the processed foods. I am going to be careful in my consideration of diet options. I already eat fairly healthily but tweaking is needed. Thank you for the advice. You have all been so helpful.

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Personally I'm nowhere near disciplined enough to follow a strict diet & know I would feel cheated not being able to enjoy going out for meals with my h & friends. I'm not sure it's necessary, I do well on a mainly Mediterranean diet which is often recommended by medical professionals, very tasty & works for me. I'd recommend really doing your homework before committing yourself. As long as you're sensible, avoid anything which you know causes you problems, exercise as well as you're able & take it easy as well as listening to advice you shouldn't far wrong.

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Thank you. That is sensible advice.I think I have been in a post diagnosis panic for the last few days, looking around for anything that might help. I have had some good pointers here and I will calm down a bit and consider the options. I do try to walk every day, although the cold is making it a bit difficult. I will look into other suitable exercise too.

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You're welcome. If I was in your position again being newly diagnosed I would wait until you know how you're reacting to your meds, let things settle & then look into how you can eat as healthily as possible for you, nobody else can tell you only advise & share what's worked for them. As much as we're each different so is our reaction to meds & the foods which suit us. What suits one person may not suit you. I was fortunate when diagnosed as I was living in the Med so my diet consisted of lots of fresh colourful foods & I just continued to eat as I had been when back in the UK as it works for me.

Do remember to make allowances to include any other issues you may have. I've needed to be more aware of my saturated fat intake since my bad cholesterol figure has risen over time as a result of RD.

I'm sure you'll find a happy medium without needing to go to extremes. ;)

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Thank you. I do eat pretty healthily any way, so it would be a good idea probably to see what happens at my next appt with the rheumatologist.🙂

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I'm glad that your adherence to a good diet has helped with your tolerating the medication. That is a very positive outcome. I have been given a steroid injection but will start on medication after my next appointment with the Consultant.

One thing that I struggle with is coffee. I've tried to give it up a number of times, but I love it and always seem to succumb. It is one of my great pleasures, but I think Inreally have to get my head around giving it up.

Thanks for your advice

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I felt heaps better goiong paleo from my lowfat pesco pollo vegetarian diet. I think my body's response was "oh, thank goodness! Finally!"

I know some people say that red meat is inflammatory but I think grassfed ruminants (lamb, beef, goat) is actually much better for you, and certainly bone broths and organ meats give you a wealth of nutrients.

I think personally, it's better to focus on nourishing your body than pn what you are missing. Start with Paleo, then consider the autoimmune protocol (AIP).

Recipe sources: nomnompaleo.com, everydaypaleo.com, wellnessmama.com, thedomesticman.com

If you want to try AIP out, I suggest thepaleomom.com, phoenixhelix.com and autoimmune-paleo.com

Best of luck to you!

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Thanks again, Karen

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Yes! Ive had good results but really struggle to stick on it. Currently going gluten and grain and sugar free. Love cheese too much but mostly have goats milk but think I'll need to stop. I am still so happy to be able to swim. I cut all inflammatory foods to do that though for a month. It is worth it if you find yourself sensitive to food but flipping tough. I dont have a dx though beyond rhuem thinking probably fibro (i dont agree) or possibly peripheral nueropathy. But before i cut out all inflammatory foods everything was stiff and a struggle esp my hips and feet. Getting there x

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Hey Stephz if you want to continue eating cheese that is your choice but I will say this there are certain chemicals in cheese and this is why a lot of people become addicted to cheese and if your ever interested there are lots of decent vegan cheeses that you can buy these days or it is very easy to make cheese at home. Pleased to hear that you are feeling better. All the best

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Yup i am probably addicted to cheese and dairy but there are no decent vegan cheeses to my taste. Most are made from soy which is not good unless fermented. Have cut it out before. :) I think its better to eat raw dairythan processed foods. Thanks for the advice. Talking about real food diets is really positive step.

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Thanks, Steph. Good to hear that cutting things out has helped with your stiffness. I'm definitely going down diet route and see if it helps

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Just to add my two-penn'orth, Hilsam... :)

I am recently diagnosed too, after about 4 years of problems, with an escalation of problems over the past 6-9 months that included new IBS and a couple of bouts of new (scary) sudden eye inflammation... I am already veggie+fish - I haven't eaten meat since 1987... Over the past year, pre-diagnosis, I noticed that certain things seemed to make me feel more ill and increase the pain in my joints - notably, drinking alcohol, eating white flour/bread products and not drinking enough water. I was tested for dairy and gluten allergies - both negative. I stopped drinking alcohol (I've had one drink all year), increased my water intake, and avoided bread/pizza etc... Inflammation increased despite this.

Almost 4 weeks ago I was diagnosed (following a hand ultrasound) and had an intra-muscular steroid injection (and started hydroxychloroquine). A day later, I coincidentally stopped eating all sugar except fresh fruit (to raise money for charity; no sweet things, no dried fruit, honey, syrups, no added sugars in food, checking labels carefully)... Within a few days, my joint and tendon swelling went, and my IBS stopped, along with a whole load of other inflammatory responses... I have been able to eat small amounts of bread without an IBS-type response. I do not know whether it's the steroids or the lack of sugar or both, but my inflammation - throughout my body - has almost gone and I feel massively better. Everyone tells me that the steroids will wear off within a few weeks, so I'm interested to see whether I can control some of the inflammation by avoiding sugar - I'll probably do another sugar-free period after Christmas...

There's no proof of anything in any of that, but it's an interesting snippet of possible info I'll store for later, and maybe interesting to you too! :D

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Really interesting! Thanks for sharing. I too find sugar the number one thing I cut out to ease pain and inflamation x

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Yes I have also started having eye problems. I now have pain in wrists and ankles as well as in face and neck. I do try to restrict sugar, because I am aware of it affecting me. I notice reactions to coffee also, which I desperately struggle to give up. I must now. I guess it is trial and error. I'm glad you have had some respite from your symptoms. I had a steroid injection on Tuesday and it doesn't seem to have really kicked in yet. I am sure that food sensitivities play their part. I have had reactions to certain foods, citrus fruits in particular, since childhood.

I hope your improved health continues. Thank you for the info

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My response to steroids (or lack of sugar!) was sudden and dramatic: the bursa behind my R knee started to go down within 3-4 hours and had gone within 24hrs; other swelling subsided within 2-4 days. It's fantastic, esp since I didn't expect them to have such a big effect - because I am sero-negative and had slight swelling/inflammation throughout my body rather than obvious dramatic swelling in specific joints... I hope they give you some relief too.

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You can make an amazing coffee alternative with dandelions that fights arthritis.

Dig u the roots and roast them in the oven. Grind them and you are good to go!

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Do you add milk to the brew?

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Hi June,

No, I never drink milk.x

I certainly wouldn't drink it for a source of calcium. Here's why. :)

Enjoy the information and have a super day.

Best wishes,

Wade

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Must give that a try. You can buy it in Health food shops too, not as pure , but better than my favourite double espresso !

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Hey Hilsam,

Awesome! let me know how you get along.

I love going out into nature and getting this stuff for free. I have been unable to work for over ten years and have lost everything like most of the rest of the poor folks on this board. Going out into nature and finding anti inflammatory foods for free is a passion of mine and I love the warmer parts of the year.

free is an essential part of my living.lol

You can eat dandelion fresh leaves when they are small or lightly boil them when they get bigger. They are one of the most nutritious veggies ever! The latin name for dandelion is Taraxacum officinale which roughly translates to official remedy for disease. :)

Those ancient folks knew their stuff.

Nettle tea is also great for arthritis and free!!! So is rosehip ....Which is also free!! If a bit fiddly. You also have to hollow the shells out and dry them in the oven, but the tea from them is amazing. So sweet and anti inflammatory.:)

Amazing what you can find in the garden for zero cost.

Have fun and chat soon,

Wade

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Lovely info about the teas. Thanks Wade

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The steroids are not really kicking in yet, but I also have fibromyalgia and some symptoms could be related to that and it is not inflammation based. I didn't sleep very well last night , so hopefully a better sleep might help. I will keep you posted

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Yes, do. Fingers crossed for some effect soon :)

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Hi Hilsam,

My RA is in remission after eating a plant based diet, I have a letter from my doctor confirming this and will share if you like.

My RA was very severe and put me in bed for two years. I have never taken drugs and done this by eating the right foods, taking the right supplements and removing all the negative aspects of my lifestyle.

I have taken ibuprofen for the pain but I don't use that now.

Changing your diet doesn't have to be a bad thing or austere? There are so many amazing things happening in the food space on the internet.:)

Check out paleo recipes and no cook cakes. :)

holdthegrain.com/15-paleo-n...

I mainly drink smoothies and juices as a food. Both are amazing but I love raw cacao smoothies with chia seeds, frozen banana and honey. Once you get into it it's an amazing way of life.

If you take control of your lifestyle and be the best version of you that you can imagine, disease will be a distant memory.

Have fun out there and don't forget you're awesome when you live bigger than disease!

Wade Tate

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Thank you for this. I will read the article. I do drink smoothies, and will experiment a bit more with healthy ingredients. I use natural yoghurt as a base but there seem to be conflicting opinions about yoghurt/re dairy

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Hey Ilsam,

Yoghurt is ok once in a while, if it's pro biotic. There is obviously the mucus forming aspect that's not great but on a positive note it contains less casein than milk because the bacteria digest some of it.

Chia seeds are the king of smoothie bases. Have you tried those? They swell up with a clear gel that tastes very lightly of watermelon.

Those and raw yolks as I said, but any frozen fruit is good.

You never have to waste fruit again! Pop it in the freezer and reuse it in smoothie bases. It goes wonderfully thick and lovely and cool too. best of all the flavours are really muted because they are frozen in and you only get a faint taste. Makes them really good to mix because any combination is very drinkable. ;)

Cacao powder and honey is amazing though.

So healthy, and you can add all kinds of spices like turmeric,cinnamon and nutmeg and even dried herbs and ground pepper to it and it hardly tastes any different.:)

Imagine the anti oxidant and inflammation killing power of that lot! Think thermogenic foods!

Hugs,

Wade

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You have sold it to me, Wade. I haven't tried chia but it sounds lovely. Will definitely seek it out. Good to hear that you think yoghurt can be OK. I eat quite a lot of it,so sounds like I should cut down,but glad that I can use it sometimEs. Thank you again, mouth-wateringly helpful, Hilary

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