Ways to Lower Creatinine levels

[jeffmensch]

I have high levels of Creatinine, which are not reducing, even with changes to my diet and nutrition changes, so are there ANY WAYS to LOWER creatinine levels? I am on blood pressure medication and my BP is normal

[rabbit01]

Why do you want to reduce Creatinine? Your kidney function won't improve in reality even if you reduced Creatinine. It's just a marker used to give an estimate of kidney function. It's not even bad for you. If you want to be more healthy and reduce the load on your kidneys you would be better off focusing on reducing urea (BUN). Creatinine is a very low toxicity substance that our muscles produce as waste after we use them and if you eat meat that will put some Creatinine in your blood. It's presence is used to estimate kidney function because it's cheap to test for and it has a fairly inverse linear relationship with kidney function.

[ladyofjazz in reply to rabbit01]

How do you reduce urea bun?

[Skeptix in reply to ladyofjazz]

Low (or very low) protein diet. Urea is a waste product of protein consumption. Eat less protein and urea level goes down, simply put

My urea (similar to BUN) was 13.5 with the normal range being (iirc) 2.5 - 7.5. I'm now 6.5. This the result of a very low protein diet.

A very low protein diet is necessarily plant based (meat contains too much protein) and it also requires a supplement called a keto acid analogue (which is, effectively, a protein source with the waste element removed). It ain't easy but it's doable

[drmind in reply to Skeptix]

When you say "less protein " does that include plant protein as well? I've been making and eating a lot of pea and bean soups, many of which are complete proteins. Thanks for any clarification.

[Skeptix in reply to drmind]

I'm afraid it's less protein - period.

I read regularly that meat "is hard on the kidneys", espec. red meat. That's probably true for reasons aside from the fact that meats are a very high protein food. So it'd be good to cut those out for those reasons (all the chemicals they stuff into animals??)

But from a protein perspective, plant protein produces the same amount of nitrogen waste (urea) as meat does and so there is no difference between them. Beans as bad a burgers.

That said, I haven't looked into the specific ways that low protein is supposed to be beneficial - outside the most obvious issue of lowering urea levels. That is to say: lower protein in = lower serum urea levels = good news. For me this was important: since my urea was twice max range (when I ate what I liked) and is now well inside range with the low protein diet.

But what if your urea is already in range - I've encountered some people here at 3a or 3b whose serum urea(UK & Irl) /BUN (US) is fine? Would they benefit?

I don't know - the science (afaik) simply says very low protein is protective, without saying why. Since most CKDers will have raised urea and raised urea is kidney damaging a lower protein diet is probably the reason for the benefit conferred. There are other toxins involved in protein processing that aren't measured as urea is. We're probably getting the benefit of reduction in a range of toxins floating around in our blood.

Amongst other things, iirc, raised urea interferes with cells that scavange debris that adheres to the side of our smooth muscles cells (e.g. blood vessel interior walls). Less scavenging means build up of deposits on our blood vessels. With heart disease being the Big Cahouna Killer for CKDers, this obviously isn't what we want.

But if, as I say, your urea is okay, would you benefit??

-

Me? My target is 0.43gr dietary protein /kg body weight (I make up another 0.2gr/kg with ketoacidanalogues). That's 28grammes dietary protein a day, in real money. With a calorie target of 2100 kcal that means I've got to hit an average of 80kcals for every gr protein consumed. I can't afford protein that gives me less that that else I can't make up the calories.

That cuts out a helluva lots of plant. Beans, soya. etc. It's not that I never have them, but they just aren't a staple. If I eat them, I'm on lettuce leaves for the rest of the day.

Plant protein is a bit like salt, it's in bloody everything. A measly thin slice of Hovis supermarket brown bread is 5.5grs of protein. Two slices of that and I've just had 1/3 of my daily budget blown. Add butter and a slice of cheese and that'd be half my daily protein budget gone. For a little snack that gives me a few hundred calories? No can do.

[drmind in reply to Skeptix]

Oh, darn. I was hoping it didnt include plant protein as well. Back to the drawing board. Phew! That brown bread, butter, and cheese sounds so yummy.

[Skeptix in reply to drmind]

I've this fake cheese I use in fact - which isn't too bad. It's a bit tasteless but so are the likes of some of the Dutch hard cheeses. It's more about texture and that's quite cheese-like. And it's zero protein and there's no many foods you can say that about

But yeah, it's a bit of a drag to be honest. You have to be on alert all the time and say no to lots of things. That said: I make it my aim rather than trash myself if I go over budget. Last I check I was averaging 30gr rather than 28gr but it's about the best I can do.

Roll on death and the world to come! Although I gather there won't be animal protein on the menu then either.

[drmind in reply to Skeptix]

That's so little protein.l!! Mt daily limit is 46 grams, but I rarely get 30 grams. Its gets so complicated spending the day deciding what I cant eat. Oh, well it's best to forge ahead and do the best we can. What's the name of the fake cheese? It may be available here. Best...off to lunch

[drmind in reply to drmind]

Oops. I just re-read my last post and realize that I'm whining again. Sorry. When I really think about CKD and diets, I'm actually so glad that we have the means to try to control our condition. Some days it's not easy BUT IT IS DOABLE. Best to everyone...

[horsie63 in reply to Skeptix]

So for the most part I don't eat a lot of protein, probably close to the low protein diet; however my BUN was 23 on my latest blood work (May 24 2022); creatinine was 2.35; and I have a lot of protein in my urine. My microalbumin/creat ratio is 1,779.3 with a reference range of 0.0 to 30.0 mcg/mg.

[Sophiebun11 in reply to drmind]

Plant protein is 50% easier to process than animal protein, so don't worry about it as much. It would be pretty hard to overdo plant protein without trying.

[drmind in reply to Sophiebun11]

Sophie, I wish I could see the research that proves that. I was on the NKD site and they say it has not be shown to he definitive that plant protein is easier than animal protein on the kidneys. however, they do know that plant protein people have a 30% lower mortality rate. Again, they're not specifying "low" plant protein diet people.

Oh, heck , I nearly threw in the towel and had some turkey for dinner. But, my son rescued me and made plant food burgers on buns with lettuce, tomatoes, and onions and air fryer fries. Fresh fruit for dessert.

Best to all

[Sophiebun11 in reply to drmind]

I just had glaucoma surgery so can't see well enough to research but I've read it .

sorry I can't relate to your meat cravings as I've been a veggie/vegan nearly my entire life and am not at all tempted.

I have to supplement potassium since mine is so low and my sodium level is borderline low. I have none of those problems, maybe my veggie lifestyle helped, not sure.

Meat sickens me. I do feed it to Henry my kitty but he has separate dishes and utensils : )

[drmind in reply to Sophiebun11]

Sophie Ive wriiten two relies to you and lost them!! Anyway, I'm so sorry to hear about you havimg yet another medical issue that you take so gallantly. Bless you for being such a good model for some of us.

I didn't mean to challenge you

I'd be delighted to know that plant protein is easier on the kidneys. I'm making a big shift to peas/bean soups, nuts, etc and was stopped in my tracks when I read plant protein has the same effect on kidneys as animal protein. But, I'm not going to stop my soups because I'm hungry without them.

Keep us posted about the surgery. Hope it was successful. Best to you...

[rabbit01 in reply to ladyofjazz]

As Skeptix says, significantly reduce protein especially from meat but veg as well. Just before I started dialysis I followed a very low protein vegan diet. It was very very tough but it had a dramatic effect on my urea. In just a couple of weeks it was down from about 18 to 6. Even phosphate and potassium were better than they had been for years. But it was too late for me. My kidney function was already down to 7% and I felt it was time to start dialysis. I do think that if I had of started a low protein diet earlier then I could have delayed starting dialysis for some time.

[drmind in reply to rabbit01]

Thanks for the encouragement.

[ladyofjazz in reply to rabbit01]

Hi, thank you. Happy to hear it's worked for you. I am trying my best. I will be seeing a Dietician nutritionist for help. I need some ideas and guidance. Stay safe and well.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador]

Jeff, Lowering your creatinine is doable. I have done it. I eat plant based for the most part.NO meat, no dairy accept some cheese, and no processed products. I dropped my creatinine down .40 points. It is not much but it was lower. I also raised my GFR.

[WildIris]

I would like to add that if you are older and a woman with slow metabolism like me and eat around half of what younger men eat, you can include soybeans (tofu) and bean soups and nuts. My problem tends to be getting enough protein. I read some studies that concluded that low protein diets and CKD lower urea and creatinine, but overall mortality is higher. Plus I don't feel as well on less protein. My eGFR has come up from mid 30s to mid 50s since I've been on this diet. I am also slowly losing weight. Also I never had proteinuria, knock wood. I take 15 G of keto-acids a day and 1 amino acid supplement(dose on bottle is 6 a day) and put tofu in my mostly fresh vegetable soup.

[jeffmensch in reply to WildIris]

WHY do you take 15 G of keto-acids a day and 1 amino acid supplements?

[WildIris]

Hi Jeffmensch- I stopped taking the amino acid supplements- I was taking them to be sure I was getting enough protein, which is hard when you're vegan and want to keep your weight down. The keto-acid proteins are made with magnesium instead of nitrogen as the protein backbone so don't harm your kidneys. The best way to ease the burden on your kidneys is to get all your protein from ketoanalogues and get your vitamins and minerals from fruits and low protein veggies. (Its the nitrogen in all natural proteins that your kidneys have to process). I am taking a break from the keto pills because of the price right now, I'll see where my eGFR is on the next round of tests, and also see how well I feel. I'm eating soy and nuts now, with corn for lysine, which is one of the amino acids usually decreased in vegan foods.