800 calorie diet which seems to be low carb. On Channel 4
Lose a stone in 21 days with Michael M... - Weight Loss Support
Lose a stone in 21 days with Michael Mosely
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I’m going to take a look. I’m not in to calorie counting, but if it’s low carb/high fat it might give me some ideas.
It definately is low carb, they were all in ketosis too, so all of that was great to see on tv, about time too! He is usually on BBC though, maybe they didn't want to go with it, the Beeb is always very opinionated shall we say.
I hope it flies because it is a good diet, in my opinion
Thanks, I’ll definitely take a look on catch up.
I was a bit worried about this diet. You will lose a lot of weight at 800 cals but it's not sustainable and as soon as you start eating a balanced diet the weight will go on faster than normal even if you have 1200 cals. Ive tried it and it leads to yoyo dieting and messes with your metabolism.
I beg to differ, Soobeedoo, sorry. It actually isn't designed to be a long 800 calorie diet give it chance and it will change. I have done 800 for months at a time, so some may not appreciate it, but you know as we keep saying, what suits one won't necessarily suit another.
It is low carb, so no empty calories and all healthy ingredients, uses intermittant fasting, explains about ketosis too. You might enjoy watching, and it works for most, as long as you are not low thyroid but it does help me keep on an even keel, even when I am actually losing weight.
Thanks Bryn. Might give it a go i have a lot of respect for Michael Moseley. I just didnt eant to get into the trap of losing loads at the start and then as soon as you eat 1,200 cals you put weight on. I have 7st to lose and have come to terms that it's going to take a while if it's going to stay off
If you don't go back to snacking plus 3 meals a day based on carbs there is no reason why you should gain it all again. But let's see this series through and then we can debate the moot points.
It isn't a sticking plaster diet, we need to revolt against the NHS carbohydrate based diet and eating every 30 minutes per day ever day
which releases insulin into our system every time we snack
which causes blood usage levels to go up and down like a see saw,
which starts to make us resistant to insulin,
which means type 2!!
The world went oversized and in need of insulin because of the way that the NHS changed their advice years ago. So much fast food etc hasn't helped either I know, nor does mimicking the States in most ways either. Type 2 diabetes was practically unknown in the UK until dietary advice changed.
• in reply toBrynGlas
Do you know name of program so I can find it . I’m a bit slow as only been on line for the v first time this last month !
It’s on Channel 4 and is called Lose a Stone in 21 days with Michael Mosley- next episode on Weds 12th August at 9pm. The first episode is online on the All4 website 😊
BrynGlas• in reply to
21 days to lose a stone I think. On channel 4 at 9pm Wednesday night. It uses a diet called Fast 800 by Michael Mosley, who brought it out as a diet a couple of years ago at least. It was serialised more than once I believe by the Mail. Very well known diet and so is Dr Mosley. It is available on All4 the catch up site.
Hi Hidden , welcome to the weight loss forum.
Would you like to join us or are you just visiting?
• in reply toTheTabbyCat
Didn’t realise I was in a diff forum . My apologies
No problem. You're very welcome to visit us.😉
I agree. The whole point is that it's effectively fasting, which maintains your metabolic rate at a high level while giving you the motivation of fast results.
Anyhow, it worked for me, both in terms of weight loss as well as reversing my drift towards insulin resistance as measured by HbA1c blood test scores, so I'll be tuning in!
Yes I agree with you. If you have the All 4 app you can see the first 2 episodes on there if you haven't seen them already. Every little helps in my opinion, well, that is my theory anyway.
A very demanding diet, designed to create great drama breaking people down- hate these fat shaming programs where people are filmed crying (trailer for next week when exercise is brought into the mix). Thought Mosley was quite smug commenting on the first week being tough.
Low carb can make you feel ill whilst getting used to it- add in 800 Kcals plus what looks like an exercise boot camp, and it will feel like torture. Plus the group are televised going through it.
Hope this kind of spectator blood sport doesn't put people off losing weight. I strongly disagree with the way that the government are going about reducing obesity: nobody wants to be fat and reasons for being so are complex. I'm glad that BEAT, a charity who deal with eating disorders. has spoken up. Although I would argue that in some cases obesity is linked with anorexia: both over and under eating can be a symptom of more serious underlying emotional pain.
For 2 thirds of the population now they are, according to the stats put out, more likely to be seriously ill with COVID. This almost blames them, not the government, who opened pubs so crowds of intoxicated people could forget social distancing or individuals who chose to ignore it with the police being abused but having few powers to enforce anything. Apparently doctors now can ask patients who are overweight ie two thirds over 50 to shield? How would this help; the patient who could be in perfect health exercise or stay mentally healthy. I realise that that it probably couldn't be enforced but feels punitive and implies that overweight people shouldn't go out. Realise this may sound bonkers but it's how it makes me feel. It gives ammunition to fat haters.
I hope that some genuine help can be broadcast which doesn't just focus on torturing people and viewing figures. Plus that the hypocrisy of eg fast food Eat Out to Help Out restaurants is stopped.
What we need is a sensible diet documentary or soap, bit like Fat Friends but with ordinary people meeting on walks or the golf course etc.
A bit like this forum you mean? 😉
I have to agree that there is a lot of showmanship behind this diet, and I dislike that. It probably does work ... but for the psychological reasons you mention, not because 800kCal/day is necessary to initiate or sustain weight loss.
The thing is, it's either about "reducing your calories", or it's about carbs. If it's about calories, then any calorie-restricted diet would work ... but we all know from hard experience that it doesn't. If it's about carbs, then there's no need to artificially restrict calories; a standard LCHF eating plan is eat-to-appetite from the word go, and it works reliably. As you said, the keto phase of LCHF can make some people feel pretty bad, so making them feel worse doesn't seem like a smart idea.
I get the impression that there's a certain subset of overweight people who need to feel that they're being punished for being fat. They have trouble accepting the idea that all they need to do is eat proper healthy food and stop torturing themselves. Mosley's approach seems to give them what they desire, and then transitions them (hopefully) into a healthier mental space. If that's what he's doing then I guess I can't really complain, but it does sound like there's an awful lot of woo-woo built into the Mosley diet.
I agree entirely with your last paragraph (well, the rest, too). He's a very knowledgeable bloke but he hasn't half made an industry out of this. I saw he was doing a speaking tour a couple of years ago: tickets were £25+ in a venue with capacity for 2000.
It's an entertainment piece but offers little useful for the average viewer who wants to make the right changes. I will watch the rest, though, and see how he and Mrs M move them on to a regular eating pattern
And here's us lot - muggins! - giving out advice for free.
You think maybe we missed a trick somewhere? 
I'm sure we are. Maybe we should start a roadshow 😁
I'll get to work on formulating the protein shake to sell, what gimmick shall we use as our USP? I vote for a glass of red wine with every meal
It is about both, no one said it was a standard LCHF but it is generally rapid weight loss certainly at the start.
It works, it's fast it is sustainable, the 800 is the kick start then it introduces other foods, more calories later. It includes exercise, they are doing the blood tests, they explain how it works, & the Covid connection, talk about type 2 and we will see the results of those who stay the course.
Are there two different programs called Lose A Stone In 21 Days With Micheal Molsey? Because I've just watched the one on the channel 4 app and it bears no relationship to this diatribe.
No there is only one programme called that, the first episode is on All4 yes.
Channel 4 also have a programme called How to Lose Weight Well which is also fronted by a fully trained Dr, but don't know if he is, or ever has been a GP. If I remember rightly I saw him (sorry, I can't remember his name now) first on a programme in partnership with Michael Mosley too. So there is two of them on 4 at least.
Thanks for answering.
I was being disingenuous. Nothing in the program I watched warranted the attack, so the only conclusion is that lilliput had watched a different program to the one I watched.
Sorry S_b, I was on a roll and never even noticed that I was replying to my good friend and Fast 800 supporter! 😍
At least I am laughing now even if I am not losing weight. I wish I could find something that would tame my low thyroid and allow me to lose weight, but I might well die still trying to stop the gaining which seems to be my only choice. And I would be very happy to try any regime to see if it worked.
Low carb does give people what is called generally, keto flu. The people on the programme were into ketosis weren't they? They used the ketone test strips to prove that their bodies had turned to using their fat stores as fuel. Before you get into ketosis (2/3 days if you are not eating high carbs) your body fights you all the way. It wants to choose the easier roller coaster fuel produced by carbs and insulin.
Once you are in ketosis you have no problem, you lose the keto flu. It is a passing thing, you are not made ill because of it, you won't die of it, or need to go to a hospital/GP.
Forgive me if I sound very rude now, I don't mean to be, really I don't.
It is is a fact of life now that Covid patients who are overweight are more likely to die from it. There is no magic cure, no pill that can make it disappear. It has nothing to do with blame.
Being obese has always caused health issues. You may have heard Michael Mosley in the programme, telling one lady that she was classed as being pre diabetic. He outlined the issues that she has to consider because of that. If she goes to full type 2, she will need insulin. A likelihood of dying 10 years earlier, more likely to need to have a limb amputated, etc etc.
This was the truth before Covid was ever heard of, but now we can add to that list the fact that she would be more likely to die if she was unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with Covid.
Would you rather not hear these facts? At least if you know you can do something about it.
I have a relative who drinks far too much, he doesn't want me to tell him that I believe he is alcoholic - because he gets twitchy when 6pm is coming up because he has to be there as the pub opens at 6! He has 3 pints of beer and is home by 7.30pm. Lunchtimes are the same, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, in the pub, 3 pints, home for lunch.
I have never seen him lying on a park bench with a bottle of cider in hand but I have seen him getting jumpy and twitchy when opening time comes around. I believe he is an alcoholic. But he has to accept that before he can change it. He won't tell his GP, he doesn't want to tell anyone or ask anyone because he knows that he will have to confront it if he does.
The only way that we can change the health problems that obesity causes is to lose weight. It isn't a matter of blame, it is a cold, hard fact. What has opening pubs got to do with it? The pubs have been with us for ever! I don't get your thinking there I'm afraid.
We are all on this group because we are wanting to lose weight aren't we? And I was a member before Covid was ever thought of.
With regards COVID there’s an excellent radio programme (and podcast) called More or Less, with Tim Harford, who was debunking this. (And many other startling statistics in the media) Well worth a listen 👍
From what I can remember it concluded that a BMI under 30 = minimal extra risk. BMI 30-35 = approx 5% higher risk. Above that and it gets complicated due to high incidence of other “co-morbidity” issues such as Heart Disease, Diabetes, COPD etc
If I get this right, it's LCHF but done with a 21-day low 800-calorie cold turkey kick-start.
My own first stone lost took 26 days, though I didn't eat that little.
The programme is dramatic. It's perfectly viable to take it more gently, you still get there.
(intrigued now, I think I'll watch it tonight)
Yes, TheAwfulToad has made a similar point. Why not just get on with eating as we need to from the start?
You'll probably find it irritating, given your own experience 
We have to remember, it's about entertainment and sustaining the Mosley bandwagon
BridgeGirlAdministrator2 stone
I watched it. He worked intensely with a very small group, with measurements and testing, then spelling out the risks for their health. He emphasised the importance of a high level of support/supervision in order to manage the 800 cals daily for three weeks. He also identified carbs as the culprit in weight gain.
Having opted in and been selected for the prog, the participants would be highly invested in it. I'll be interested in their next stages, and how they move to a normal eating pattern.
My guess is that there will be a temptation for the NHS to jump on this as an easy fix - or at least an easy start - without any of the high level, high quality support these people are getting from Mosley and his wife, and without any of the learning needed to move beyond the initial phase and normalise a healthy eating pattern.
I don't think it would be a bad thing if programmes like this were to shake the NHS' belief in the flawed 'Eatwell Plate' and its misplaced dogma favouring 'low fat' foods over healthy fat foods (though I suspect that's a tanker that's going to take a while to turn).
I agree, it may encourage viewers to have a rethink. I'll be watching subsequent episodes to see how it goes.
i find this hard to get my head around having grown up being told fat is bad.I am really quite scared of high fat low carb diets, thinking they will give me a heart attack or something. i know a lot of people have lost weight this way, but it's very hard to remove over fifty years of conditioning.
It is difficult, but not impossible to reverse your way of thinking. I was 58 before I saw the light. It may help to know that there is no evidence to support the claim that fat, especially saturated fat is bad for you and that olive oil, recommended by all, has more saturated fat than pork. Have a look at this, especially page 10 phcuk.org/wp-content/upload...
It is certainly a change in thinking, but 8 stones lighter I think I'm just have to battle on and cope with tucking into my healthy full-fat foods and double cream. 😄
Hi SofaJockey,
I hope you don't mind me asking...but how was your weight loss initially, in the first 3 to 4 weeks (on LCHF) ?
I am disheartened by it...so I am stopping the veggie Keto menu's, with cream and cheese, and I am going plain for a few weeks, in the hope of moving a few pounds.
Perhaps LCHF is not for everyone?
Thank you for reading
The first 4 weeks was 15 pounds lost. My plan was a 'light' LCHF (I didn't go full keto) with 'Second Nature' of around 45g/day carbs. As always, the devil is in the detail, it depends on what you're eating I guess. 🤔
That's a great start to your amazing weight loss! Thank you for sharing x
You're still expecting too much, S-M. You've lost 8.4lbs in 4 weeks and you're not as overweight as I was when I first joined. I was 5 stone heavier, with a BMI of 44 and I lost 9.75lbs in the first 4 weeks.
LCHF is working well for you, if only you could relax and enjoy it!
Thank you for sharing moreless, I appreciate what you're saying, and it does make sense.
On reflection, I think that I may have been eating too much fat...mayo with some of my meals...sauces made with butter, cream and cheese (my OH enjoys cooking nice meals, and he was following recipes from two Keto cookery books).
I am taking a week out, trying to eat healthily, zero snacking, zero alcohol, while fasting when possible, and I will see if I am able to lose a minimum of three pounds.
So, basically I will be eating much the same, but with less saturated fat (I don't mean to irritate anyone; I am not yet a LCHF convert). I am trying a few things, but may well add the fat back in, just less of it.
Thank you for your knowledgable advice, I'm saving this post, to read again in a week's time
Be careful, the fat is what allows you to fast. If you give LCHF the chance, your body will let you know if you're eating too much.
1 - 2lbs weight loss per week is the recognised correct amount to lose and you're already doing better than that
Thank you moreless ♡
I don't know about that. I fasted on 800kcal a day, so by necessity not high fat.
I would say carbs are what stop you from fasting. I think it's perfectly possible to fast without dietary fat. The secret is, if your carbs are low, your body fat will step up to provide on both low carbs and fasting.
I agree. I do better on two meals a day 800 cal total max. If I'm not upping the insulin by way of carbs I don't feel the need to eat because I am not hungry. And calorie counting means that I can't go high carbs OR high fat. Fat helps you feel full for longer anyway I don't do hunger these days I would eat the cat if I was hungry enough, so he he prefers me to eat the 800 way! LoL
I think it's the sugar and carb reduction that's the key to this.
The quantity of higher fat food added to address hunger seems to me to be a matter of personal preference and may affect the speed of diet, but the principle should still work.
Thank you SJ,
I am running a mini trial with myself, for this week (I started yesterday)...I have introduced some carbs, and I am cutting down on saturated fat, to see
1. How I feel, in general
2. How hungry I become
3. If I manage to lose any weight, and if I do, how much
4. If I will still be able to fast for 15 to 19 hours a day
Yesterday was easy, after a long fast, and I didn't eat much, because I wasn't hungry (even managed a hike at 9pm)...However, at 3am ish this morning, I was very hungry...so the answer to number 4, is a resounding 'No.'
Thank you for your great advice...I just want to learn what works for me, if anything
I would say it has to be, our old friend insulin is not called for when eating fat. I think it wise to limit fat certainly in my case, but if you can eat fat and still lose weight I am happy for you, just a brighter shade of green, thats all
Exactly, they are not for everyone. My ex was as thin as a rake, ate white bread, if he was hungry when out of the house he would buy a Mars Bar to eat. When he was diagnosed low thyroid and put onto thyroxine I thought he would gain weight as I did when I was diagnosed.
The sad truth is that he never gained an ounce and presumably is still the same weight. After I was diagnosed all I could do is try to limit my weight gain and keeping the gains in check has been all I can do. I do Fast 800 but I very rarely lose weight on it. Very sad but nothing I can do about it it seems. After 25 years I am used to it.
But I have never been able to lose weight on high fat, so I drink my coffee and tea black and limit my calories. I wish it worked for me but it doesn't, nothing has to date, not for long.
Isn't it sickening, how some people can eat so much, and not gain an ounce!
I think that I am the same as you, I don't respond all that well, to eating a lot of fat.
It seems to be a balance, and that is the battle, for me anyway, getting the balance where it should be.
Do you covert T4 to T3 very well? Just wondering..as you mention being Hypo and being on Levo (T4)....I hope that you don't mind me asking ♡
My problem is with my thyroid, have you ever had yours checked?
I thought when I was diagnosed that it was the answer to my prayers but it has been exactly the opposite and I am still taking the tablets but not losing.
But I am firmly of the view that if it doesn't work, keep looking. In the meantime I will stay with Fast 800
Have you joined the Thyroid UK forum? It's not something that affects me but I've heard great things about it - very knowledgeable people
Oh yes, I have. If I had unlimited amounts of money so that I could pay for the necessary blood tests and drugs that I would need to buy I would try that, but I don't and so I am stuck with the nhs and levo thyroxine.
Occasionally something kicks in and I can lose weight, but sooner or later it stops and GP's tell me that my results were fine, you must just be an idle so & so who is eating cream cakes all day. I have been told this year that walking 45 - 60 minutes at least 3 times a week is all very well & pleasant, but what I really need is to do is this new circuit type training. He got on an exercise bike in his room and showed me, cycle along admiring the view then go hell for leather fir 30 seconds or so, then go back to admiring the view again. I told him the last time I got on an exercise bike was on physio after I had been diagnosed with a degenerative spine (aged42) and I didn't walk again for the next 2 weeks. And now I am 68 so things have not got better since then.
My low thyroid was diagnosed later, about age 48 if I remember rightly, menopause and all that.
I never answered you on the thyroid issue, to be honest I didn't read your message to the end before my brain told my fingers to start tapping!
I have no idea what is going wrong. My GP says my tests are fine, I would like to try self medicating with T3 or NDT but I would need to be able to afford my own blood tests and buy my own drugs too and I haven't the money to do that. I went fully into this determination to force the NHS to get me well about 6 months after I had been on thyroxine years ago, but was still gaining weight. In the end I was just driving myself insane, so chucked all of the research I had done, took the tablets and had the blood tests and tried to forget about it because it took over my life, what if, what if.
I occasionally find that I am able to lose weight again. I have no idea why, and when it happens I can see no difference in my diet or my drugs or anything else that would indicate why I am losing weight at that particular time. The first time it happened was in 2012, I lost 3 stones, thought it was all fine now, kept it off for a few months. Went out and bought new undies at the beginning of 2013 and then I started to gain and wasn't able to stop it until I was size 20 again and my new undies and size clothes are still upstairs hopefully waiting.
Then in early 2019 it started again, I went down to 12st 5lbs and it stopped again. I then gradually gained again until I was 13 stone. This was when I joined Health Unlocked because I knew it had to be my thyroid. I bought a blood sugar monitor and God knows what then to try to work out what was happening, but I could find nothing, blood tests showed I was not pre diabetic, celiac, or anything else for that matter.
In about March this year I seemed to feel better in myself, was losing again and I noticed that I had been using a different brand of thyroxine than normal. I soon asked the chemist to please ensure that I only got this particular brand in future, which he did. I got from 13 down to 12st 8lbs this time before it started increasing again, so it wasn't the brand of thyroxine which had allowed me to lose. But I do feel better on it still at least.
So if anyone could tell me where to go next, what other diet or anything else no matter how weird, might work I would be very willing to try it. At the moment the Fast 800 diet is keeping me at between 12 st 13lbs and 13st 1 lbs which is all I can hope for. There are a lot of others who are in the same boat over on the thyroid site, unfortunately and this seems to be an increasing problem. I don't think the NHS knows what to do with us, there are no endocrinologist who are fully trained in thyroid issues and so if anyone gets referred to an endo he will probably be a diabetes specialist and I could well know more about thyroid issues than he did and I am no expert. I have never been referred to an endo in all these years despite my complaints.
Ooops sorry I have ranted for far too long
No, you're not ranting at all!
If you haven't joined the Thyroid forum on HU, I HIGHLY recommend that you do...just join now, don't put it off (sorry to be bossy).
I have learnt SO much on there, and (as on here) everyone is so informative, kind, and, helpful.
You could post a copy of your last bloodwork results, by photo (remember to cover over any personal info) or you can jot down your results, together with their ranges, and post it that way.....you will get feedback...it's that simple.
You will get advice about vitamins, your Thyroid hormone levels, and, possibly if you have Hashimoto's disease (that's how I was diagnosed as having Hashimoto's, which explained such a lot, about some of my symptoms, which was helpful).
You possibly do not covert T4 to T3 very well...T3 is what doctors do not want to prescribe, due to cost. I have read online that some kind doctors agree to give patients a free trial of T3, for 6 months, to see if their symptoms improve. Perhaps it's time to change your doctor??
There is also a list of Endorinologists, who you can see via the NHS, by referral...or, privately...who have been known to prescribe T3.
I know all too well, what it's like to be low on T3...extreme fatigue, body aches, brain fog, befuddled speech, weight gain, rapid hair loss etc...don't give up on yourself...and don't be bullied by some lazy doctor, for your sake.
On a side note...I had days when I would suddenly feel amazing...then it would be gone; I couldn't figure out why...I wanted to feel this way every day (so I thought)...turns out, it was my autoimmune disorder, and my antibodies attacking my Thyroid...and all the thyroid hormone floating around in my blood, and, my Thyroid slowly being destroyed.....
.....so, the reason behind my very long reply is...please join the Thyroid forum, post your bloodwork (you are entitled to a copy from your doctor)...and get some invaluable advice, and, help yourself to feel well again. You deserve that x
Good luck ♡
Yes I am a member of the Thyyroid UK site. I joined that around October 2019. So you are low too??
I still haven't put my last blood tests on there, I had them done when I was in Stoke over the winter - I live in North Wales. I used my brother in law's GP for the test but the surgery's manager would not allow me to have a copy of the results. In the end I had to make an official complaint before they would release it. I came home in March but it took a while to get the complaint procedure sorted then it was lockdown and I have to upload them now.
To be honest I can't summon up the desire to do it. I can't see it changing very much.
Anyway, we will be in trouble for cluttering up this thread, sorry folks.
PM me if you would like to Shield-Maiden
Will do 😊
Wow 8 stones well done how inspirational x
• in reply totuppy64
I am not convinced there is much evidence in favour of LCHF. There ias a lot of opinion. This site hosts a report, not a study from a group which calls itself Public Health England. It's very flawed. Cherry picking results, etc. One day when the weather is too bad to go outside I'll give a proper analysis.
Worst of all, there is no explanation of the different kinds of carbs .
I'm not going on any high fat diet.
Subtle_badger• in reply to
Before you look for evidence of the health benefits of high fat diet, I suggest you look for evidence of the benefits of a low fat diet. Good quality evidence, like a proper long term clinical trial or a randomised control study.
50 years ago, the told us to eat more carbs and minimise saturated fat and cut down on fat. We have gone from obesity being very rare, ditto T2DM to 1/3 of the population being obese, 2/3 overweight and 1/3 having diabetes or pre-diabetes.
You might not want to eat LCHF, but I wonder how much more evidence you need to turn away from the NHS' recommended diet.
• in reply toSubtle_badger
The information you cite is epidemiological, not rct. In that 50 years we have stopped cooking at home and our food is full of additives now. In that 50 years the manufacturers conveniently redefined carbs as sugars only, ignoring starch and fibre.
You know I suspect we'd agree on a lot.
Subtle_badger• in reply to
Actually, it's a long term dietary intervention study. They told us what to eat. We listened to them*. We got progressively fatter and sicker while following it. If it had been an actual study, the ethics team would have intervened to end it early because it was putting the subjects at risks.
But that's not the point. It's not my responsibility to find evidence the diet is killing us, it's their job to provide evidence it is making us healthier. They are spending billions pushing this diet. Where is the data?
*We have cut fat and saturated fat, just like they told us to.... nutrition.org.uk/nutritions...
Oh I wish I could come up with these wonderful links when I need them S_b
You are dead right of course.
Surely someone should take the B. NHS to court for those of us who have suffered as a result of the soonper dooper new ways we were told to follow. And they have not stopped fobbing us off with this gumph yet have they?
BrynGlas• in reply to
And that is your choice
Yes that is exactly it. I am 68 years old, I remember the days when to lose weight people were told to reduce starch, cut potatoes and bread down. I never had to do it then, because I was not overweight.
We have been fed a cock and bull story as far as fat is concerned. I have type 1 diabetes in my family, my grandson was 3 when he was diagnosed type 1, as was his cousin, my brother was in his 20's when he was diagnosed. They can eat natural fats until the cows come home and not gain weight and not need an insulin injection either, because our bodies do not need insulin to process fat, it only needs insulin to process carbohydrate.
It is what you add to fats which causes the problems. Processed foods which we were never meant to eat naturally. There are scary fats (which have the confounded names which won't come into my mind right now) are downright dangerous are not found in any basic foods which we are designed to eat. Keep away from processed foods.
When I found that I needed to lose weight after having my children, it had all changed fat was the enemy. Rosemary Connolly was on tv everyday spouting about fat being the enemy. For some, that obviously worked, but for lots of us, it doesn't and fat does not cause type 2 diabetes, only consumption of high carbs causes blood sugar to go through the roof, insulin levels raise to decrease the blood sugar and the blood sugar level drops rapidly, causing us to be starving again shortly after. This is what makes us insulin resistant, leading to type 2.
Well it is about time the NHS went low carb instead of insisting that the basis of any diet is high carbs. There is more than one way of skinning a cat
I hope they do. It is not an easy fix by any means, but it works and if the NHS do jump on it, then it is about time. There will be no roller coaster rides of blood sugar levels and insulin levels anyway, if people can learn that eating high carb is not the only way to live according to the bible according to the NHS
What we have also got to remember is that Med. Students get very little teaching about nutrition, diet (not as in diet for weight loss) etc it is skimmed over, as is low thyroid.
All true
focused1Maintainer13kg
Just the word 'diet' makes me shiver . Try portion sizes , exercise , 3 meals a day and no snacks . I lost 18kg in 5 months and that was in Jan 2018 . I maintain using this basic plan and a few treats . I try not to eat after 6.30pm . A low cal hot choc or low cal soup if I am craving that 9pm hunger but I naturally now max 1450 cals with no effort eating plenty of tinned / fresh fish , omelettes , salads , varied veg ,cottage cheese flavoured with herbs , spices , Greek yogurt , porridge , lean white meat , treats of sultanas , unsalted nuts , lentil curls , dark chocolate .
Especially if you work - the starve yourself regime cannot be sustained and it depletes your body of essential nutrients/ macros which for me at my age - 60 could do me harm .
He gave them a meal replacement shake for one of their meals to ensure they have sufficient protein while losing weight. That's one aspect of the high level of supervision Mosley was offering. I doubt that will be widely available.
Can we live off milk shakes ? I see this like many say as a kick start encouragement but when you pick up that people pay £25 to hear this ..then please direct them to this website. I have to fit my healthy eating for life in with full time manual job , running a home , looking out for friends / relatives etc and I couldn't do that on 800 cals for long . I feel I would have to cut down my hours , hire a home help/ PA and 100% target myself .
I wonder if these volunteers were leading the normal daily lives that the majority of us do . Encouraging that weight loss is being targeted but surely meal planning , balance , exercise after that initial kick as I wonder long term whether this is ideal and I would like to see how many it works for - say after a year?
You can buy the shakes on his website. They look terrible to me, just the sort of thing I would not touch with a barge pole since I started eating real food. They weren't available when I was doing it, and they seem a cynical attempt to make more money.
I had no trouble getting >60g of protein most days on 800kcal. Shakes not required.
I feel you could easily make your own which will be better for you . After my hiatus hernia operation I was 4 weeks on liquid diet . I bought a nutrabullet and just whizzed fruit , veg through that . I lost weight but as I recovered and went onto pureed foods I knew I couldn't live a decent life on liquid food . My social life would suffer and all those tasty meals I looked forward to were just waiting to be eaten .
Healthy food isn't just all very low calories .
I contend that Fast800 food (excluding the nonsense shakes) are healthy food. It's not low calorie food, it's smaller serving sizes.
YESSSSS, give that S_b girl a medal please!!
We should all be using smaller plates in my opinion!
Yes indeed I can't eat too much protein, though I would love a T bone steak at times. I have to limit cals as well as carbs or I would gain.
Yeah - I didn't really get that. Why not just give them some protein in the form of real food?!
We'll it's interesting to see from Subtle_badger's reply that he's selling them
The word is subtle ....no harm in believing in what you are selling. Personally I couldn't survive on few calories . I love my food and plenty of it .
I followed his diet before he was selling the supplements. There was no gap. It was completely possible to follow is prescription and get sufficient protein.
He's cashing out with shakes. They are everything his book taught me to avoid.
I have to say I would never go that way, but I do know a lot of people who have used diet shakes and there is nothing new in those. Remember Cambridge??
Like you, I watched the first programme. It will be more interesting to see how they move on from the 800 stage
• in reply toBridgeGirl
How could you enjoy a protein shake substitute for a meal? That's punishment. Food is one of the great pleasures in life. Texture, smell, taste. Why take those away?
BrynGlas• in reply to
my ex always preferred a Mars Bar to a meal!
• in reply tofocused1
I like your plan - works for me too: three meals a day, no snacks, nothing after 6.00pm - it's back to how I grew up in the 50's and 60's. Treats now and then, but certainly not daily. (I just keep away from nuts and sultanas as I would eat too many of them!)
That's why I class nuts and sultanas as a treat ..maybe with a glass of wine . Weight maintenance shouldn't be dull.
• in reply tofocused1
That's probably the most sensible comment I've read here. Portion sizes and cut out the rubbish. I like my nosh, so I call it a noshitarian diet.
I did see it, and I found it to be very interesting. Obviously, 800 calories a day is extremely low, but the food plans are healthy low carb, with the aim of putting the volunteers into Ketosis within 3 days.
Mosley and his wife are both doctor's (and they seem genuinely kind) so I think the volunteers are in good hands....but the 'show' follows these people, so it will be interesting to see the results.
The heart health aspect was a surprise, most of the volunteers hearts are currently 'aged' by around an additional 15 years, over their actual age, scary.
Thank you Shield-Maiden, at least 2 of us are on the same wave length. Yes if you forget the shakes, it does major on meals from scratch and healthy ingredients.
I can't wait to see the blood results for those who continue to the end and let's see what happens.
This diet has been around for a long time, it isn't faddy in any way, at least that is my opinion of it, have been using it for a goid couple of years minimum.
I wish he would make a diet programme for low thyroid patients and let's see why most of us can only limit weight gain, not actually lose much.
Hi BrynGlas,
I'm looking forward to seeing the results too.
After seeing those gorgeous-looking stuffed mushrooms, I must confess to ordering the wife's Fast 800 cook book, it is only 6.99, and if I remember, around 6 to ship...hopefully it be worth the pennies I have the Fast 800 book, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet...maybe after the TV program has finished.
Have a good weekend....it's Friday ☺
There are a few recipes in the book too, but yes, I have the cookery book too. I am so pleased that you are open minded enough to think sideways.
The 800 diet uses real, healthy food, if that is what you prefer to eat. I accept that not all people want the bother of cooking at all and go for the shakes. That is the world these days unfortunately, some have never cooked a meal in their life. But the fact that they are available doesn't make the 800 diet, or Michael Mosley and his wife a liar, cheat, or money grabbers. He trained as a GP but hasn't worked as a GP, so what? He works mostly in a more scientific way from what I have found out about him, what is wrong about that? We need someone who has a brain unconnected to the NHS who can think sideways. We didn't get a high percentage of the population Type 2 by following intermittant fasting, we got it by following the NHS guidelines.
All I ask is that people give it a chance with an open mind. The world has not got obese by following the 800 diet. Something needs to change, we have to stop being so judgemental without actually giving things a chance and open our minds.
The NHS and the government have been getting it wrong for years, base diets on carbs, 3 meals a day, grazing, snacks, they need a good shake up. The truth is out there, walking past us every time we go outside our own door.
Sorry for ranting, but to read on here how this new 21 day diet is being judged is untrue. I watched it again last night and I saw no bullying or nastiness as I had read on here.
It is sustainable because I have been using it since it came out. It is low carb, it uses intermittent fasting, which is not rocket science, etc etc.
Hi again BrynGlas,
I agree with all that you say.
I will be watching it again too, as my OH went to bed, and didn't see it. I am contemplating possibly trying the diet myself, because I know that I can fast, on a reduced carb way of eating; it's just the low calories that has me a little doubtful...but I will only find out, if I can do it, by trying it.
This is all very interesting
For me, being a part of this fabulous forum, is invaluable...not only am I getting insightful information from experienced members, I am also starting to look at weight loss very differently; I find it to be less intimidating now, and more, intriguing
You have made my day.
If you don't try you will never know and the books are not expensive, the food is good, honest food, no shakes unless you are delusional enough to want them🙂 and 800 calories a days worth will not break the bank, will it?
I say try it and see. What can you lose other than weight and maybe your temper?
Exactly! lol xx
slipstickMaintainer2st 7lbs
Moseley seems to have stolen a lot of his ideas from the Roy Taylor/Diabetes UK DiRECT program aimed at causing remission in Type 2 diabetes though they didn't get a mention. Still it's entertainment not education.
I also notice this morning that my local Cambridge 1:1 diet consultant immediately jumped in the bandwagon claiming their low calories meal replacement shakes/soups/whatever are "Effectively the same thing but easier"! Now that's a 'diet' I really don't like because it does nothing at all to help you learn to eat better long term.
Stolen? He bases his approach in science, using well conducted studies, like DIRECT and Droplet. He covers both of these and others in detail in his book.
I don't know why the show doesn't mention it, I haven't seen it, but it's a point in his favour that he relies on clinical trials, rather than the epidemiological studies that NICE and the BDA rely upon.
It's only plagiarism if he pretends he has done the original science. The leaving out of attribution is likely to be an editorial decision, and not his.
I love you Subtle_badger to the rescue. Yes, I agree, whole heartedly.
He has the science behind it all and it does lower blood sugar and cut the Type 2 out of the window if patients stick to it That is why he began the various diets. He was not overweight particularly, but was diagnosed type 2 and went into battle to get the blood sugar down and he did it. He didn't just decide to make money out of putting diet books, shakes etc together. And his wife GP Claire is very involved and as she is showing people how to cook certain things who more than likely rarely cook I take my hat off to them both. We all bemoan the lack of cooking skills in our population on here don't we?
I can't wait for the results, I think they will be impressive in most cases, if they all stick to it.
focused1Maintainer13kg
This is big business - cut cals , eat 'meal ...replacements - says it all .I agree with you that this is long term . We need to eat proper food . Of course I can shed weight sipping drinks ...who can't ?
No it isn't focused1, sorry. The only people who use shakes are the ones that choose to use them, either don't want to cook/ have no time/just like to opt out of making the effort. The emphasis is on real food, no refines carbs. Lots of veggies, oil, butter, fish, lean meat, eggs
Oh dear, please give it a chance.
Now I have read so many comments and thank you as this is a discussion group I am interested to see the programmes which I will watch . No eating plan suits all and I am curious to see if people can keep the weight off as this for me is the hardest part as the UK is so centred around food . Discounts given for lunches but when the gyms finally open if they aren't out of business then I doubt there will be half price classes / memberships .I welcome your comments and knowledge
That is all I ask focused1, thank you for giving it consideration . It isn't a 'normal' way of eating/living, but hang in there, let's see the results and give it a chance. I think that many people will be surprised.
It certainly won't be pushing us into type 2 diabetes if we follow it, I know that.
Once you have finished this diet and begin to up the calories again you will put weight back on, it's not sustainable.
Exactly and that's why this is such big business . Take any group of people who exercise , eat mindfully and you won't see many that have serious weight issues.
Subtle_badger• in reply to
No.
SofaJockey• in reply to
It would be perfectly sustainable after 3 weeks if it was followed with a Low Carb High Fat model, which frankly it's not a million miles from.
• in reply toSofaJockey
800 calories per day, you would starve.
SofaJockey• in reply to
For sure. The ongoing LCHF would be more food than the 800 calories. 😊
• in reply toSofaJockey
But we are talking about 800 calories, not more.
Your brain alone needs around 600 calories per day to function right.
Subtle_badger• in reply to
🤪
This is why our bodies store fat, to fuel us when we aren't eating. I am now at 23.4 BMI, yet I estimate I have around 77,000 calories stored as body fat. No one's going to "starve" on 800kcal in the sort term.
This is why they are in a hurry to get into ketosis, so your body can start using fat as a primary fuel. That's the way to burn off body fat.
• in reply toSubtle_badger
We aren't talking about the short term, we are talking about after the 21 days.
800 calories isn't enough for an adult body to function correctly, an adult brain alone needs around 300 calories per day.
You would be starving yourself if you stuck to 800 calories per day.
Subtle_badger• in reply to
What are you talking about? They are not starving themselves, they are eating less calories than they are burning to force their body to take what it needs from fat stores. It's kind of the principle behind most diets, including the NHS one.
Even when I fast, I am not starving myself. My body is using the stored energy in fat (+ a little gluconeogenesis) to fuel me until I eat again.
This is how humans are designed: to store excess fuel as fat, and be able to burn it later when there is no food coming in.
Oh dear. I seem to have driven someone else away.
It wasn't deliberate. 😔
I did that on the Mail 21 day forum, though I thought about my answer very carefully and tried not to cause offence, I failed miserably unfortunately.
But I was not the author of the article which we were talking about and I had been accused of pushing my own opinions disguised as Claire Baileys. If things are wrong, they are wrong, I couldn't allow the accusation to stand because it was wholly untrue.
I love your way of thinking S_b Most people in the uk think they will keel over if they miss a slice of toast for breakfast. That's why we have the grand Type 2 epidemic.
Most diets, aka weight loss diets, allow for snacks too. With insulin flooding into your blood stream 6 or more times a day, no wonder we get resistant to it. Even the GP who I saw last when I was in Stoke told me that snacking was good and he opened a Tupperware box on his desk full of nuts, dried fruit etc, though no sarnies I will admit, but lots of sugar in the dried fruit!
BrynGlas• in reply to
You don't seem to realise that we don't all need the same food, calories or lifestyle.
We are all different.
I don't want everyone to live my life as I do, but I don't tell them that they are wrong. I am not wrong in my choice of diet and certainly not starving.
There are other ways and different views about everything. We need to be more tolerant and willing to accept that ours is not the only way and open our mind to other possibilities. No two of us are identical, we need to keep that in mind surely?
BrynGlas• in reply to
I am not starving and often I eat in the region of 600 a day. If I am satisfied with that and not hungry, then I stop at that.
I switched to low carb because I was struggling to lose weight with a calorie counted diet which included brown carbs- bread, rice etc Kept dropping the calories until after a month of 1200, 1000, 800 I lost 1 pound.And was very hungry.
I watched calories via MyFitnessPal but cut bread, pasta, some rice, some potatoes Felt ill tbh. Kept cutting back a bit more so main carbs were beans. Because of the olive oil used in cooking, not frylite, hate it, my daily calories were higher. Nervous about cholerestrol because mine is very high so tried to avoid saturated fats The calories would usually make me twitch but had avacados Plus nuts, especially almonds as snacks Far less hunger- which made it easier to stick to. Ate on average 1200 cals a day, with intermittent fasting, and still lost half a pound a week So over 5 months, a stone
SoI lost slightly more weight but, importantly , was less hungry. and after the feeling ill phase, found it much easier to stick to,
I seem to be the only "graduate" of Fast800 posting, so I will say I think it's great. I was able to do it with only the support of a library copy of the book, my scale and my mirror. But I found the book inspiring at first, and the scale and mirror took over. It's a great way to learn to eat low carb. The low calorie thing is an advantage, because eating enough fat is psychologically difficult at first - and possibly intestinally difficult as well, but at first you don't eat that much.
I treated it as a boot camp: I started it to learn fasting as a tool I would have for the rest of my life to keep healthy and maintain my weight. I also learned to eat low carb, which I now know is the main item in my tool box for long term health.
I only lost 12lb in the first 21 days, but that included a complete blowout on Christmas day. Have you tasted salt caramel? Oh my God!
It set me on a road to successful weight loss. I wasn't going to do anything to undo the progress I had achieved in the first month.
healthunlocked.com/nhsweigh...
healthunlocked.com/nhsweigh...
Congrats. My problem televising piling on the pressure when contestants are at their weakest ebb. I'm retired but it would take longer than a week to cut down on carbs. After 3 days I was light headed and nearly passed out. Just thinking about a gradual reduction if working.
They are not contestants as far as I can tell. There is no competition.
I don't know why you nearly passed out, but the volunteers in this program seem to be talking to a doctor regularly, so if they have a problem like that, they will be able to get medical advice.
I felt a little blah starting this diet, but nothing that prevented me getting on with my day. Yeah, it's not going to work if you are a field hand, but I don't think obesity is a huge problem in the field hand community.
Can I just say that the people on this programme are not being forced to do it, they have gone into it with their eyes wide open. They are not competing either as far as I am aware, or is there a prize at the end for the one who loses the most weight?
They are on their because they want to lose weight, they want to be healthier for themselves and their families, not to mention the Covid worry.
I suggest that if I was at my lowest ebb, I would not be choosing to go on such a programme. I would be hiding in my home with the curtains closed.
I would think that they were all troubled, after gaining weight while on lockdown, worried about Covid and have seized upon this way of tackling it by going public and think that it can only be better for them in the long run than ignoring it. They are very brave and I admire them for having the courage.
Can I ask your advice, please?.. just wondering if it's necessary for me to get a copy of the book... or do you think I could just go ahead and take the plunge and give it a go for a few weeks. I'm already a dedicated convert to very low carb, 😜 and am using IF between 16-20 hours per day... so if I just ensure I'm around the 800cal mark each day as well, is that basically it?!? or maybe I'm missing more detailed info and should get the book from the library!.. just checked my usual daily calories.. hovers between 1100 - 1500 when I'm just eating to appetite. What do you think?
I think so. I found it useful, but then I was new to the whole thing. I would not be referring back to it now, I know how to find the primary docs and I find people like David Unwin and Jason Fung more useful these days than Michael Mosley.
I think my success came from making sure I felt full each day. I could do that on an 800kcal meal. If I ate two meals, I would probably have a total for the day more around 1200. Over my month, there were a few days round 500, a few over 1200 and most were 700-1000. That worked for me, but I was high carb and had never fasted when I started.
One thing the book taught me is intermittent is good. Mixing things up keeps it fresh. The daily calories came from what was going on in my life, but I didn't regret mixing it up so even when I topped out at more than double my planned calories, I didn't beat myself up - it would just make the next day more successful.
The plan, in a nutshell (as I remember) is you go on 800kcal/day for 2-12 weeks, and then after that you switch to a Mediterranean diet and have a 800kcal one or two days per week, as required, for the rest of your life - so his previous 5:2 diet. It's the long term plan that I was in for to start with, and was rather reluctant to go on a low calorie diet. His data convinced me, and I am very glad it did it.
Sorry, this is rambling. If I had more time, I would have written a shorter reply 😁
Not rambling at all.. that's brilliant thanks. Exactly what I was curious to know. I think I'll just try a bit of an experiment seeing how I go with a few days of 800cal. I don't want to jeopardise what I'm doing at the moment.. but as you say... it is good to mix things up a bit, and this sounds like a good thing to throw into the mix!! Thanks S-B!
Yes I find the same S_badger I am ready to eat the first meal of the day around 2 - 3pm and have 6-700 calories and not interested too much in eating again that day. ! But things change from time to time. If I am hungry I eat and I am pretty good now at eating what will hit the spot quickly. My best friends are eggs and mushrooms, without which I would lose the will to live I think.
I haven't had a mushroom omelette in a while. Time of fix that!
Oh, so remiss!!!!! I am always piled high with them and use the portobellos as open topped buns
I suggest you buy Claire Bailey’s (Moseley’s wife) Fast 800 recipe book. It is full of really good, easy to make recipes and also explains the benefits of the plan and how to combat metabolic disease and in the process lose weight. The food is based on low carb Mediterranean food starting with 800 cals per day for approx 12 weeks then 5:2 until you reach target weight, and then graduating to normal eating. It also talks about time restricted eating and explains how to do this safely. Good luck xx
• in reply toNannyEJ
When they say "graduating to normal eating", what do they consider as normal eating?
NannyEJ• in reply to
Sorry for not replying sooner, I have been away with very little internet. The normal eating referred to is still low carb Mediterranean style eating and following all of the strategies learned (time restricted eating for instance. Mosley himself likes to go 12 hours but some people comfortably manage longer). There is no logging of calories but you pretty much eat the same things, just a bit more if it. This is a way of eating for life rather than a diet. Hope that helps x
Bit disappointed he uses the waist-half-height ratio. That's great for men, but a woman with that ratio would still be obese.
I never expected a one line post to generate so much interest.
Basically programs are about pushing people to the limit, lose a stone in 3 months and never feel pressured or hungry doesn't have the appeal of lose a stone in 21 days, but would be much better in the long run. At least it introduces the idea of low carb rather than low fat, even if it does count calories. It would be interesting if they split the group in two and had one half exercise and the other half follow the diet, or a follow up program of how many are still a healthy weight after 5 years.
Well, if we all push them, who knows? We may get more of what we want to see and learn from. We have all got to consider losing weight and becoming healthier as a change in our life, not losing weight to go on hols, eat and drink as before and then say the diet didn't work because the weight came back!!!!!
We have to find a way of losing weight (if that is what we need)and getting healthier that we can live with.
If we are not willing to change anything but still want to lose weight and be healthier how can we possibly hope to reach our goals? Where is that going to get us??
Absolutely nowhere of course.
focused1Maintainer13kg
Our bodies are complex . I
was boarder line on a DEXA bone scan so I eat diary for the calcium and other nutrients it provides . My age -60 - tells me I need brain food , oily fish for my joints etc so I sort of have my own eating programme which now without counting as originally guided by MFPal I have about 1250-1350 cals a day plus walking / at least 30x4 cardio via You Tube each week and a fairly manual job . I was 80kg in Jan 2018 and now maintain around 62/64kg which at 5ft 1 isn't super but I feel acceptable in the clothes that I like .Knee pain = gone and my fitness levels challenge an average person in a gym dance class . If I still was 80kg then I feel my attitude to 800cals may change .
So you found your way. Which is exactly what I want to hear. We all have choices in our life if we are not happy we have to change things until we are. Not everyone gets there, but if we all sat around and said we didn't want to change things, but we would like to be size 8 and super healthy, where would we get?
But why is that wrong? Can only trained doctors who are being employed as GP's have anything to do with weight loss diets or present such on tv?
This is the site for Michael's previous diet, which is much easier and safer I believe. thefastdiet.co.uk/
This 800 diet is just the kick start to get people going. Once these however many days or weeks are up you go onto the 5:2 diet. He hasn't had enough time yet in one programme to take us through it all, but that is how it goes in the Fast 800 book. I can't be bothered to get the book out now and give you the exact details, but it isn't 800 without fail for the rest of your life.
Lots of people are just having a look at the title and writing it off as unsustainable. Believe me, it is sustainable, but we don't get to see the whole thing until it is ends. Read the book, there are Facebook groups etc dedicated to it too. It is 5:2 in essence rejigged a bit.
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