The NRC plan that I've been following has got me thinking about pace. I've managed negative splits by using my watch to keep a close eye on my pace but I don't think that's a great way to carry on (especially since, at the start of a race, the reading seems very erratic).
So, I tried this run just going by feel (only using my watch to indicate the start of each km). I'm surprised that it worked! There's still more to work on (like going for smaller increments and aiming for a target pace instead of just "quicker than the last one") but it seems to be going OK.
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SkiMonday
Ultramarathon
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I've never really followed any training plan.. just go by my Garmin.. I've found this works great.. know if I'm too fast starting off or lagging a perticular K.. and alter my pace accordingly..It takes a while to find out what suits you best..
Thanks Sparky. Most of the time I just run without a plan, usually following the 10% rule. However, I've found that using a plan is a good way to prepare for a race.
Yes I'd definitely go with the 10% plan 👍My leading to a race plan.. has just been.. keep well .. good nutrition.. listen to your body.. do your regular runs , training.. and all will be well on the day 🙏
Really decent splits there skimonday 👍 I did the same today but for just 3k, I had a battle on my hands in the last k as it was a long challenging hill.
Good question. You seem to be managing really well though and I’m absolutely no expert. Feel free to ignore everything I write here as this is based on my own personal experience and yours may be very different or you may have read differently elsewhere.
Firstly, it goes without saying that over time you get to know your running paces better. Even if you’re a one pace runner you’ll get quicker over time and you’ll know it too. However, without a watch it’s impossible to measure, it and know what your pace really is. I am an unashamed numbers runner, and find it really hard to run without my watch. It gives me goals and targets to reach and I need them. I use it to set my pace.
Some days I feel lethargic and just run slower, while on others I’m on fire, and it seems really easy. Either way unless I start slowly I find it quite hard to get negative splits. This is where I use my watch, to set my initial pace but after that I go by feel. If it feels too fast. I slow up and take it easy.
One obvious trick, when I’m feeling good, is to start at a slower pace and monitor it. On a short run I like to use my 10k race pace as a start guide. The temptation to speed up because it feels easy, must be resisted. I tell myself that the first km is still a warmup and don’t push just yet.
Another trick is to only use nasal breathing for the first part of the run. I use this to slow me up too. I know when I’m running too fast as that’s the first thing I stop doing. Others use the speaking in complete sentences without gasping as an easy pace but I don’t use that for fear of looking more of a madman than usual 😂
I use my watch to monitor the average pace which is signalled at the end of each km and then, after that, maybe one or two glances to make sure I’m ahead of that by a little bit.
If I can’t maintain the pace, then I chalk it up to having started too fast and try to record how I felt earlier I’m in the run for signals that I should have paid attention to.
I don’t do progression runs or negative splits every run by the way. Just when I’m in the mood.
It makes a lot of sense to use a watch to “calibrate” my sense of pace but I think it’s useful to be able to do so by feel, especially at the start of a race when my watch seems somewhat erratic.
I’ve tended to use a display of “current pace” on my watch but I think that it would be better to use “lap pace”.
That’s exactly what coach Bennett says you should do SkiMonday. Easy pace may not be the same speed everyday - just go by how it feels. It’s great in theory and you’ve cracked it. I’m very obedient until I’m surrounded by fast people! 😂😂
I figure that, if I can judge my pace reasonably accurately, that's half the battle. Sticking to a planned pace is the other part but I can't stick to a pace unless I've some idea of what my pace is!
Looks great SM! Going by feel is the way to go I think but hard too, It’ll take time and practice. But it sounds as if you’ve cracked it 👍
I’ve always been really bad at pacing myself until I followed a proper training plan for Bristol and my pacing improved considerably….. until those hills 😫but I am much better now at feeling my pace.
Not sure about hills. I tend to adjust for effort rather than pace so I slow down uphill and speed up down. However, should I be aiming to maintain a constant pace on hills? Seems to me that a constant effort (instead of constant pace) might be the way to go.
I’m a convert to NRC plans after my recent experience using one! Although I’m currently taking some down time and just doing my own thing (whilst being focussed on the HUMH of course)!
To add to my other reply: I absolutely do not run at a constant pace on hills, whether uphill or downhill, compared to flatter stretches. I run by effort, also trying to keep to a similar cadence.
I prefer not to walk hills if I can avoid it, but there's terrain I'm physically not capable of running, whereas I can walk/scramble/ hop/skip/jump it just fine.
I suspect you already know my thoughts on this SkiMonday ! I pace by effort and very rarely use my watch. I almost never achieve negative splits and have no interest in setting out to achieve them during a run, as it's pretty pointless for my sort of running.
Sure, I can manage them by manipulating my route, like this: 1k directly uphill (12:04/km, +49m) into the forest, 1k downhill (8:15/km, -61m) through the forest, 1k circling up and down hills (6:28/km, -19m) on roads and tracks, 1k downhill (6:03/km, -46m) on fairly straight tracks and roads, and 1k (5:21/km, -43m) mostly on the road. I hammered for a few metres during that last k just to see what happened.
However, I didn't run fast for long, because that was only the first part of a 10.5k run. The second half was slower, between 7:36/km and 8:22/km pace, and almost all on paths and tracks, mostly uphill: -15m, +8m, +42m, +29m, +37m, +19m. There is no way I'm going to get negative splits over that sort of 10k unless I spend the first half ambling along picking flowers or something!
I really think that you have to have an idea of how your effort relates to the numbers, and vice-versa, and then use whatever works for you. RunBrianRun and I have very different approaches, because we're very different sorts of runner and run in very different settings. I've never met Brian but am pretty confident that trying to make him run the way I do, or me run the way he does, would result in misery all round!
That pretty much hits the nail on the head. We’re all different at the end of the day and we run for all sorts of different reasons.
I love to throw in the odd negative split run as it makes things interesting for me.
As I said before I like targets and goals and this is an example. It also serves a good purpose for races when pacing is crucial. I guess that maybe why you are keen on honing your pacing SM?
I guess the crux of it is that I’ve realised I need to control pace by feel in order to improve my race times (i.e. by not fading towards the end). There’s probably also an element of being told it’s important by the plan. Suppose I’m also harbouring some ideas about being a pacer if I can achieve a suitable consistency.
Similarly I ebb and flow. The terrain round here is nowhere near as challenging as in your neck of the woods. Maximum effort today was merely a 20m climb. I'm sure you'd have had no trouble with Angina Hill in Heaton Park last Sunday. 🤣🏔️
That’s a great way of getting negative splits Cmoi!
Guess what I’m aiming for is to be able to judge pace by feel (on the flat, at least). Although it seems that setting my level of effort (rather than pace) is going to be more useful if I’m aiming to complete a race without fading towards the end. I suppose that trying to judge pace is really part of race training for me but I think it’s also useful for general running.
Your post had me thinking about what kind of runner I am. I’m starting to realise that I’m way more competitive than I thought. I actually ran at Pomphrey Hill (ParkRun) yesterday and aimed for the fastest time I could; I managed a PB for the course but that’s hardly surprising as the only other time that I’ve pushed it on that course was half way through a 25k run. That said, I also enjoy taking it easy: I went out for a mud run with the local club this morning (118m climb over 12k so “flat” by your standards); it was good trotting along in the sunshine chatting. I paid no notice to pace (but did put some effort into maintaining my balance)!
Your post got me thinking too: "being competitive" and "challenging myself" are different things for me, at least in terms of running.
For me the former is about beating other people - which essentially means going faster - and requires a must train, must perform, must achieve, must compete frame of mind. I just don't want that from running.
The latter, in contrast, is about doing more than I think I can, and/or setting long-term goals. These often won't be measured in numbers, and when they are, I'm far more likely to bang on about vertical elevation (or depth of mud or snow 😉) than time taken!
I genuinely couldn't tell you any of my PBs, or even my maratrail time, without checking. It's not because I don't care at all, it's because the overall experience matters more.
Funnily enough I tend not to fade towards the end of runs, probably because I don't race😜. However, because I run such varied terrain, I'm very conscious of how I'm moving, which inevitably has an impact on judging pace.
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