My MHR using standard age and gender related calculations would be around 226 - 58 = 168 (that's probably the most generous calculation I can find). I have my age correctly defined in both Garmin connect and Strava.
Garmin puts anything over 147 into zone 5 (an alarming shade of red). Much of the time this is where I am when I am running; sometimes I'm in zone 4 for part of the run, but only if it's a particularly easy paced run (a more pleasing orange).
Today I signed up for the Strava summit trial. It asked me for a recent race result to define pace ones, so I gave it my 1h 23s 10K, thinking that was a middling one between 5k or HM. Strava Summit is giving me an MHR of 190 😏. Of course with an MHR of 190 I'm out of zone 5 (which it defines as anything over 184)! The only vague info I can find says that Strava uses an age based MHR calculation (it doesn't mention using the race result or any HR data from previous runs recorded in Strava).
I know it's all a bit suspect anyway - from accuracy of recording to generalisation of formulae - but I really would like to have ranges I can work with, if I can believe them! The Garmin one is so dispiriting that I usually just get cross with it!
I've emailed Strava support to see if they can provide any more info, but wondered if anyone on here knows any more about it, or has any thoughts?
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Yup, you can edit HR zones in Garmin and in Strava. I haven't edited Garmin though because I assumed it knew better than me ... however, I suspect I could work more usefully with the Strava ones. Today wasn't an 'easy' run, but I never strayed beyond zone 3.
I think I respond better to a carrot (strava) than a stick (garmin) ... now just need to look for chocolate (?) and prosecco (?) ... oops
My max HR has always been high when running (or even working come to that). But it comes down again, and rests below 60 almost 100% of the time. No other obvious bad symptoms, so I've carried on. I just keep checking it doesn't get higher. I know I'm not the only one who disagrees with Garmin
To be fair to Garmin 140 is working hard. I’m 51 and my Fitbit puts me in red any higher than 140. I ran my fastest 5km and was pushing really hard and got to 186, think I would drop dead at 190!
I completely agree! Mine has been up at 185, but generally averages between 150 and 165 on a normal run. My highs do tend to be shortlived 'spikes' rather than a rate to maintain, so may well be error readings. I wouldn't want to run at 'max' but equally 147 seems rather low to warrant a red zone 5 warning from Garmin 😀.
I have stopped looking at the garmin “zones”! They have me in the red most of the time! Reality is that my average heart rate on a decent run is from 138 to 148, depending on pace and I quickly drop off to my normal mid 50s bpm when I rest. I could alter the setting, but what’s the point? I think that I am pretty fit for my 67 years and will press on in the belief that if I feel ok then there is nothing to worry about !
Well said - there is a danger that with all this information at our fingertips we become obsessed with performing to prescribed numbers rather than listening to our bodies. If your heart it thumping and you are gasping for breath then slow down, regardless of what Garmin or Strava tells you to do. Or speed up if you realise things feel too easy on what's meant to be a tough run.
I only look at HR numbers after a run not during and to be honest don't use the information to modify the next run, it's just an extra bit of interesting information, like what the weather was at the time!
I definitely agree this info isn't the be all and end all, and how we feel is actually much more important, but it's another thing I can play with on a normal run; I have a tendency to run at one pace but there are times when I specifically want to run 'easy'. I can run and tell myself I felt fine, but if I get back and Garmin has me in the red zone all the time then that piece of information is counter productive at best (I'm not sure I've ever run til my heart was thumping 😂). If however it sometimes shows zone 3, sometimes zone 4 then it's another indicator as to whether I really did run 'easy', or whether I'm kidding myself 😃; but the only way I can achieve that is by either modifying the MHR or pretty much gentle walking! I also accept all these stats (including pace and distance depending on quality of GPS) have a degree of inaccuracy, but still they act - for me anyway - as an affirmation that I did or did not achieve what I set out to do. I've never checked my HR during a run, and I don't think I plan to, but I do check all the Garmin stats afterwards out of interest
Nothing useful to add I'm afraid...just musings...I've been too lazy to work out my max heartrate, but also wonder how accurate Strava/Garmin zones are...I remember reading that the more runs you do, the more they keep updating themselves and gradually become more accurate (that may be just Garmin - can't remember!). I have set my Garmin to tell me every few minutes through my headphones what my percentage of max heartrate is - that way I can aim to keep in the region of 75-80% on my long runs, which include a lot of hills so pacing is thrown out. However on one of my parkruns when I was being paced by a speedy Gonzalez my heartrate was apparently 102% near the end, which alarmed me somewhat!! I didn't seem to be dead though so I suspect some slight inaccuracy! 😂
Ooh 102% - no one can accuse you of not trying :D. I don't think Garmin has adjusted my HR zones at all and I've been using it a fairly long time now. 97% of today's run was in the red. Not sure what it has as my max HR, I just know >147 has me straight in the red zone 🤬 I don't have any voice prompts set from Garmin - I might try that for a laugh on one of my two short runs next week (maybe the easy 3K!)
Oh wow 102% 😳- I refuse to check my HR when I’m at parkrun ! It would just make me slow right down. Mind you that could be a good thing if I want to prevent injury 😂
Well you got to take it with a pinch of salt - but I like to have a rough guide when I'm doing my hilly long runs, and I can't be bothered to alter it for Parkrun!
I've dabbled with HR training. Didn't really take though; while I'm definitely a numbers geek, there are too many variables for my liking.
Some things it might be worth thinking about though:
Your max HR isn't quantifiable accurately. A full V02 max test or similar will get close, but it's always an estimate based on an average kind of number.
The zones are more than likely based on MHR. Garmin, Strava etc. may well have different numbers. Also, they could easily be calculating the zones differently too, there's more than one way.
HR measurement is not accurate, chest straps are better than optical devices, but not by much really. Even a full on top of the range ECG can be 5% or so either way.
You can blat away at max HR for as long as your body will allow (FYI not very bloody long at all!), you're not a car, the engine won't blow up if you take it to the red line too many times. It's just another muscle exercise it like any other.
Lots of that makes sense. I particularly love the idea that I'm exercising a muscle and am not in danger of blowing up 😂!
I'm sure my 'spikes' are errors in the reading. I eventually found last night that Garmin is assuming my MHR to be 163 (couldn't find it in the app or on the internet, but eventually found it on the watch itself), which is probably using the 220-age formula (as opposed to strava's mysterious 190!). From what I've read, the most generous formula (a Norwegian one!) would give me 174. I've plugged that into garmin for now which makes the ranges look more realistic I think. Not sure I will achieve much, but it's something else to play with in the spring/summer months
Hiya, I used to worry about this but the MHRS zones are based on a calculation of 220 less age which is so basic and often wrong for most people. According to that my max is 180 but I can run at a chatty pace for over an hour at 180 and have recorded a max when really training hard of 204! Clearly I didn’t die and was ok so my mac is not 180! If your sick or faint or anything then stop but some people just has high max than others.
If your worries see a doc but what I did was reset my Garmin setting my max heart rate as the highest I had recorded at the time and then rest the bands. This is now a much better reflection of my efforts.
Thanks for that info. I'm not overly worried these days either as I'm not feeling any ill effects. But I do respond better to encouragement than anger, so it would be nice to have a friendlier HR report for each run 😂. I can see that when Garmin measures my HR as really high, it is only a spike, so possibly not a true reading. Anyway, I have finally found where to change my MHR and have now changed it from 163 (roughly the 220-age) to 174 (based on a Norwegian formula that takes into acct age and gender). Will see how that goes, but I think it will better reflect my efforts too.
All very interesting. I'm 68 and I run an average of 145ish but on hills it climbs to around 160 which I have set as max. Resting is sixty odd so I feel I'm OK. My main concern is that my HR jumps early in a run even when the first K is downhill. TBH the easiest way is just to turn off the HR alarm and ignore it
You can’t go above your max heart rate. If you’ve recorded up to 185 your MHR must be at least that. I would set it at 185. If you manage to push it higher in the future adjust it again.
Interesting discussion. I have been training using HR for the last 8 weeks, following a combination of John Douillard and Phil Maffetone's coaching models. Basically, I have an extended warm-up (to stop my HR jumping to 145 after a few paces) and gradually pick up pace to keep my HR between 118 and 128 (in practice I slow down if it reaches 130). In the first few weeks of the plan, I spent a lot of time walking! The range was calculated so that I don't exceed 50% of my MHR as the idea of the plan is to build your aerobic base.
Eight weeks in, I'm recording between 5 min 53 sec and 6 min 8 sec per km after a slightly slower first km warm-up, while averaging 125 bpm HR. I've resisted the temptation to push it but I'm confident I can beat previous 5k and 10k times.
The positives are that because the training is low intensity, I don't feel any fatigue, I can train every day (work/life/etc. permitting) and I have dispensed with stretches.
Wow. That's amazing! I might have a play with a similar sort of training over the summer so it's encouraging to hear that you have made progress by persisting. I'm going to go for my first run since changing Garmin's MHR which will have changed the zones. I'm hoping it will make for more motivating reading when I get back, but first I'm hoping it might stop raining
Strava haven't bothered to reply to my email -not yet at least - asking for info on how/why it deems my MHR to be 190.
I changed my MHR in both garmin and in strava to be more realistic for me. Strava and garmin then applied their own logic to determine the different zones. Does that answer your question or have I missed the point?
I wasn't trying LHR running as you are; I was just fed up that almost 100% of 100% of my runs were in the red zone on Garmin! So in that respect, it definitely helped. My heart rate isn't necessarily lower, but my stats are better 😍
It seems that the age related formulae are not too helpful. One thing I did which is working for me, was to measure my heart rate in the last 200m or so of a parkrun. Usually i am sprinting ( well trying to!) so am at my max. I then added 5 bpm to that number to give my max HR and popped it into the Garmin.
I'm just starting HM training and the first run called for 35 mins in Z2 easy. I ran with my new settings and that is exactly what it felt like. ..... You know " Hey this is fun, I could chat away all day at this pace" Today I did 40 mins in Z3 Steady and thats exactly what it felt like too... You know........" well I could chat a bit and I could run faster but this is fine thanks"
Hasten to add that I'm not a medic so this is just my experience. By this stage I think we all know when we are trying too hard and know when to slow down.
The polar website describes doing a field test which looks like a more sophisticated version of what I did. See this link.
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HM training week11 day3 - 70 minutes in zones 1&2: 6.64km, av pace10.33min/km
Garmin really really doesn’t like rain!! 💦💦💦🤦♀️