Has anyone done heart rate zones training?

[Tasha99]

Most of my runs. No all of my runs are mainly in zones 4 and 5. So yesterday I read up about heart rate zones running. I tried to do a run in zone 3 according to garmin today. It was ridiculous. I can walk slowly faster than u had to attempt to 'run' in order to stay under 145. It was embarrassing as I was practically tip toeing. My friend recalculated and tomorrow's run will be an attempt to stay under 154. I've read up a lot and it does seem good with at least 3 months for it to take effect. Anyone any thoughts or experience?

[Decker Ultramarathon]

I am exactly the same Tasha. I can only get into zone 2 by walking according to my watch. But my runs - even the full marathon, are zone 4-5, mostly 5. I know this is impossible and after talking to a couple of trainers, it seems my Garmin is just not that accurate, as i can have full easy conversations on my long runs and not be breathing heavy. So today I changed my max HR manually, upping it, and todays very hard effort short run was a zone 4, peaking into 5, which feels much more accurate. I will be continuing my test into the long run in the weekend.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Decker]

I found it much easier to stay at 140 today 😁

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to Tasha99]

Well at least its working for one of us. 👍🏼🙂Even with my max HR increase, my 10 was almost all zone 5 this morn.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Decker]

I had to go slower than my marathon training pace. About 8min ks. After a few, weeks it supposed to get faster for the same heart rate which would be fab.

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to Tasha99]

with my latest adjustment I've moved into zone 4 and 3!

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Decker]

Yay! I managed 7:30 min ks today at 140

Id like to know my proper zones. My high is about 180 but my resting is about 40 and can be lower.

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to Tasha99]

Wow that is a low resting rate. My highest recorded was 192 and my low average is around 54. So I used 190 and 55

[SlowLoris]

You need reliable figures for resting and max HR.

Resting is easy. Garmin will tell you your average resting heart rate. Must be when awake though.

All HR monitors use a formula to calculate MaxHR. The formula is more often wrong than right. It was never intended for fitness training.

Some people will claim to have a better formula. It won’t be. The reason being that most people are not near the population average given by the formula. There is huge variance in the data. I’ve seen it. It’s like a scattering of dots with a straight line of the average that shows a general trend with age.

So firstly, your maximum heart rate is exactly that. You cannot exceed it. It is at least the highest you have ever recorded.

If you want a good approximation warm up on your way to a decent hill. Do three hill repeats building up to max effort. Voila!

You won’t have a heart attack and die. Promise.

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to SlowLoris]

That logic does make sense SL. Based on that, I could push the Max rate up even further. But maybe in the interest of safety, I will keep these settings and see how they play out on the longer runs. 🙂

[Hidden in reply to SlowLoris]

Thank you SL, really helpful. Oh btw, if I do die, can my family sue?

[SlowLoris in reply to Hidden]

I’ll go on the run!

(In a Loris-like fashion)

[Hidden in reply to SlowLoris]

Not like Stirling Moss then?

[Beachcomber66 Administrator Half Marathon]

It’s easy Tasha, you just need to get old! My sub 30 minute 5k the other week was average 145 bpm. I can’t get much over 160 bpm max (I don’t try to!!). I think it is a question of adjusting the settings to fit your heart rate levels. I did that (it was treating me as being too old!!) so I now get lower ranges which match my slower happy pace rather than everything being in the red.

[Hidden in reply to Beachcomber66]

How do you change the settings BC? (in really short words please )

[Beachcomber66 Administrator Half Marathon in reply to Hidden]

There is a step by step on support. garmin.com which says something like this. I have just worked it through and it was ok.

Go into your Garmin connect app.

Open the menu (bottom right on iPhone, top left on android.)

Select Garmin Devices

Select your device name (eg forerunner 35) which will be displayed

Select User Settings

Select configure heart rate zones

Enter the lowest heart rate value for each zone

Backing out of the menu will save!

Done !!

[Hidden in reply to Beachcomber66]

Thank you so much BC. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for me. I’ll have a look x

[Beachcomber66 Administrator Half Marathon in reply to Hidden]

Hope it works for you 🤞

[Hidden]

Quick rule of Thumb. 180-age = steady training HR. For a fuller picture philmaffetone.com/method/ . I have been using this approach for some time with good results. The tortoise wins the race.

[SlowLoris in reply to Hidden]

I'm not a Maffetone fan. Lots of people think he's a bit of a quack. He's written a lot of books and someone, somewhere decided to award him a doctorate on the strength of that. He's certainly not a medical doctor and his formula doesn't really make sense, given that it's based on flawed info to start with.

[Hidden in reply to SlowLoris]

Well, thanks for reading my post and for your considered reply. I can only recount my own experiences and have found the basis of the method very helpful in rebuilding my fitness after an illness. It gave me a number to beware of and adjust my training load to enable an event-free recovery so far.

[SlowLoris in reply to Hidden]

Training is training. 75-80% of it should be at an easy pace. It's just that the science behind Maffetone's method is flawed. It will certainly work to a point but lots of people find themselves trying to run extremely slowly to fit in with certain specified zones. Having sold huge numbers of books he undoubtably has a huge following, most of whom will get upset at his detractors.

[theoldfellow in reply to SlowLoris]

I'm with you on that SlowLoris, I got one of his books, which is certainly interesting, but extremely difficult to apply. As a 70 yo, according to his MAFF method I should be doing most of my training below 110 bpm (180-70), but that means walking up any slope, even 1 in 15. However, doing most of my long distance training at an Aerobic level, for me that would be 120-130 or so, seems to give good results.

I think the only message that makes sense from the Maffetone stuff is 'if you burn your glycogen stores up too fast, you'll bonk, so save it for the final sprint'.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to theoldfellow]

I've had to move my zone 3 level up from his suggestion. But I maybe he's talking about elites not people like us 🤣

[SlowLoris in reply to Tasha99]

He’s taken the 220-age formula and just knocked it down by 50 beats to create his theoretical aerobic threshold. Hardly scientific.

For a start the formula doesn’t work for most people. It’s a population average with a huge variety in the data. Only works if you actually sit on the average figure.

Secondly, it takes no account of resting heart rate which varies greatly. Also resting rate can change with fitness.

It’s a flawed system which is why so many people struggle with it.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Hidden]

Yes his stuff is very interesting. I've had people have had great success with zone 3 training too. I'll let you know what happens.

[Irishprincess Administrator Half Marathon]

I know Hidden did all of her HM training using heart rate zones and posted regularly about it. You could search for her posts.

[Sqkr Half Marathon]

Same for me too! I do attempt vague zone training just to mix things up, but doesn't matter how fit I am my heart rate is generally up in the top zones unless I'm going backwards, according to the Garmin algorithms. My resting rate is low at about 54, and I know that to be true, but there's something a bit squiffy about how Garmo determines subsequent zones—even taking my max heart rate at about 197 (which is the highest it's recorded it) into account.

[Decker Ultramarathon in reply to Sqkr]

Well I just moved my HR max to 190 and min to 54. I suspect another zone 5 run. 😁 we’ll see

[Hidden]

I am so pleased that you posted this and for the replies. I don't really understand any of this stuff but just run about the place. However, I intermittently worry that running mainly in 4 and sometimes in 5, even though I am really slow, is causing me harm. This is a really helpful thread

[Beachcomber66 Administrator Half Marathon in reply to Hidden]

For practical purposes I totally ignore heart rate....I operate on the basis that if I feel ok, I am ok. When I do check it is more about comparing heart rate for a given level of performance now compared to what I was doing 12 months ago...a proxy for fitness improvement if you like. This is curiosity driven! My reason for adjusting the heart rate zones was that nearly everything was red...I increased my maximum heart rate setting to what I know I can achieve, and fitted in zones 4 to 1 working back from the actual maximum. So now my runs register in all of the zones and have a bit more relevance for comparison purposes. But, on a run, I am only interested in checking pace. 😅I hope that makes sense!!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

You’re probably not running in 4&5 at all. Most watches are set for 220 minus age to calculate the zones. This is way too low for most of us. Better to look up methods of calculating it via strenuous exercise or just, as I did, find the highest it’s been from your runs (though that still is unlikely to be max) and use that as you max HR.

[Tasha99 Marathon]

Wow! I forgot I posted this until just now 🤣

I went out today and did 4 miles non stop at 140 so that was far more successful. I'll see how tomorrow goes. I do like the sound of heart rate zones training. It's absolutely evident that I have no aerobic base so this should help. I'll feedback on my progress if i can stick to it!

Not sure what happened yesterday. It might've been just because it was my first attempt, or it could be a low carb day the day before. I'll try and make notes.