I work in the police control room and my lupus is managed by me very well. However, the sickness system is based on ‘periods of absence’ and although I am only sick for usually one shift it has been 6 times in a year, including hospital treatment times. I have now been called to a formal sickness meeting which includes my Supervisor, HR and my very unsympathetic occupational health officer. I am now stressing I may get dismissed. Can anyone help with advice. Especially if you’ve been in same position.
Thank you in advance
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AnyHill89
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Hi AnyHill, sorry to hear of your distress with this awful work situation. I was in a panicky state about my work last year because I had nearly 6 months off—I was worried they were going to fire me! Fortunately they were very supportive, but it sounds like that is not the case for you. I am surprised to hear they have called a meeting about it. Are you in the UK? I’m in Australia, and here it’s illegal to fire or mistreat or discriminate against anyone due to illness or disability. I can only assume it’s the same in the UK. And the workplace is legally obligated to make any and all necessary adjustments to enable you to carry out your duties. They can’t dismiss you for using your leave entitlements. They may not like that you’re sick so often (and we don’t exactly enjoy it either), but from a legal standpoint, they have to support you. Even to make you medically redundant, they would have to prove your role is no longer required.
Find out about your rights (in Australia we have FairWork) and go to the meeting armed with that knowledge—and a support person. They can hold your hand, bear witness to what is said, and debrief with you afterwards. And give yourself lots of self-care, something to counteract the additional stress you are going through!
Thank you for your very supportive response. Yes I am in UK. And yes armed with my Lupus Leaflets, and my Equality and Disability Regs. But I am still really concerned. Which is obviously exacerbating my condition. As we all know stress is a trigger.
Absolutely yes, stress is a massive trigger. And you are right to be concerned: even with the law on your side, it’s not a nice experience to go through, and we all know discrimination happens, even though it’s illegal. Please let us know how your meeting goes, and maybe plan some top-shelf reward for yourself afterwards! Also maybe do some extra grounding or anything that helps keep you calm—a cup of tea, candles, music, cuddling a pet. Get some extra dopamine happening. I know it’s extra hard at times like these, so do cut yourself some slack as well, you’re doing the best you can.
First of all I’m so sorry to hear that you are in this position.
Secondly, have you joined the Union? If not I would suggest you do as they will help you to deal with this situation and accompany you to any meetings and advocate for you on your behalf.
If you decide you don’t want to join the union then you must not go to any meetings unaccompanied. Your employer should have offered you the opportunity to take someone with you to the meeting. Make sure you do so they can take notes and also keep you calm and remind you of things or tell you to ask for a break if you need to. They can’t speak on your behalf though. Postpone the meeting until you are ready to have it.
Your employer should be treating your illness as a disability as it is a condition that you have had for more than 12 months and will continue to have. They must make reasonable adjustments in the work place. They can take many forms in order to help you manage your job in the work place. Also if you have a sickness system which is managed as you say, then your disability cannot be used as part of that system to accrue sickness. If you had a cold or the flu it can but if you had the flu or Covid which made you have a flare of your Lupus than they can’t use that.
I suspect that they will want to have a report from your GP or Consultant about your Lupus to prove that you have it. Then they will have to make the reasonable adjustment to your sickness records. If they don’t and you are dismissed you would have a strong case against them but I’m sure they know all this and are just going through the motions to put the reasonable adjustments in place.
Hi, thank you also for your support & very comprehensive response. Although, I am a member of the Union the rep and nobody else is available. I will seriously consider taking a friend although I am embarrassed to involve them in my personal problems as I fear there may be repercussions. I am hopefully being very sensitive and the outcome is not what I think. I have investigated a good employment solicitor should it go badly 😩
I don't see what you have got to be embarrassed about, you seem to be doing a fantastic job of limiting your time off. Definitely take someone, your union should provide somebody, if they cannot then someone with at least basic legal knowledge. Maybe you should put in a request to HR that someone with a knowledge of disability laws is present. If they don't then start the meeting with a firm statement of your disabilities and right to attend hospital appointments in work time. Just to check, are you in the UK?
Hi, yes in UK. I am hoping by sending them the Lupus leaflets that they know I have comprehensive information regards my condition. They are already in receipt of my Consultant records which were previously requested by OH. He unfortunately, despite everything in medical journals, believes that lupus is not a medical condition!!! That’s what I am contending with. I have my positivity head on at the moment. Much because of the support of you lovely people on this forum. And I will not go down without a jolly good fight 🤩
Your consultant doesn't think lupus is a medical condition?! I would ask for a transfer to another consultant very urgently. Good luck with the meeting.
If your Union rep is unavailable on the particular day of the meeting then you are within your rights to tell HR that and say you want the meeting when they are available. Failing that the union will have to find a replacement rep and allow you time with them so they can familiarise themselves with your case. Don’t let them bully you on this, you have rights too so if it means postponing the meeting sobeit!
You are absolutely correct and those leaflets are very comprehensive. I have forwarded them already to HR as I feel those are inclusive of supportive information about my condition.
I was a Paramedic, (former Dental Nurse), sustained life-lasting injuries whilst on duty attending patient in back of 🚑 whilst on a 999 call en-route to A&E. The accident was not my fault as I wasn’t the driver …..
The Ambulance Service, (despite my pleas for an alternative role), retired me on grounds of ill health as they said, “You are not physically fit to man a vehicle should we require you to. Therefore, you are not able to perform the role you have been trained to do.”
I did return to work for quite some time following six months recovering from my injuries, unfortunately I kept on hurting myself more & more which resulted in repeated absences. Prior to the accident, I’d had no time off sick at all.
I realise my situation wasn’t quite the same as yours is, but I was in Unison who I trusted - they let me down big style! I would never be in a union ever again & would definitely represent myself instead.
My husband suggests you propose some ideas of your own for your not so good days, eg working from home if possible, working back your missed time or using your annual leave. (He dealt with these sorts of issues regularly before he retired), also be amenable to the suggestions made by your workplace which demonstrates how much you like your job and really want to keep it. There might be a solution that suits you both because if they value you, then they will want to keep you.
He says to ask to see any file notes which your managers have made regarding your absences - (you have a right to see them), if they stall saying there aren’t any or they’re not available then reschedule the meeting, definitely take someone with you as a witness (preferably not a Union rep in my experience), possibly a work colleague, friend or family member. As long as you & your employers do everything above board, within Employment Law & company absence policy then you all know where you stand.
Just want to put another slant on it, my parents were self-employed, they were flexible, supportive, not in any way unreasonable, really looked after their staff but they couldn’t afford to keep someone on who was costing them money long term. Maybe sounds harsh but I’m being realistic…..Seems unfair, I know particularly as Lupus is a day to day challenge….
My husband was a senior manager, worked alongside HR, OH, Unions & regularly dealt with absence hearings & disciplinary proceedings.
He’s worked for 46 years & has never been in a Union never would be …. He knows how they operate from the other side and distrusts them. As long as you stick to the facts, follow correct protocol & procedure you do not need a Union.
In my dismal experience of Unison & the Ambulance Service, definitely avoid any union solicitors & use your own independent firm. Unison screwed me over big style ….
Good luck with the meeting you sound very prepared so that will help you.
After the meeting is over I personally would ask to make a formal complaint about the OH as how dare he say it’s not a medical condition that is not ethical or appropriate.
Try your hardest to come from an Im Ok - You’re Ok position. What I mean is it’s ok they asked for the meeting they are just following procedure but it’s also ok that you had 6 shifts off as that is quite an achievement with a difficult condition/disability like lupus. So go in proud and assertive that you have been able to work and manage it so well. You have done nothing wrong so please don’t go in feeling less than.
Breath before during and after to ground yourself I promise it will make a huge difference. Breath in for 7 through your nose and out for 11 slowly through your mouth.. it’s easy to do discretely and will keep your nervous system in the safe position.
I am not formally diagnosed yet, but on medications. I am an ED nurse, and I was on the same boat. I was lucky that occy health pointed out that I was covered by the equality act, and they said because of this all my sickness related to my condition should not be counted for the triggering system. So only if I'm sick with other things does it count. Also, I am supposed to have authorised absence, paid or unpaid, depending on my managers choice, to go to all my appointments.
I am in the process of medical redeployment, and I did contact the RCN, my union, and they have been very supportive. So I would suggest contacting yours. My rep wasn't available for the date of my meeting, so I emailed HR and my manager and told them the dates the rep was available and we all agreed on a date and a time. Don't let them bully you. I did for a long time until I realise the managers don't have my best interests at heart. Good luck with everything!
Hi, I have now provided them with the fabulous Lupus leaflets which identify all your helpful information. Unfortunately, my OH has a terrible reputation and Union too. However, I will now be more confident due to the support from this forum. And should it result in dismissal I have good employment lawyer on speed dial 😃
So sorry to hear of this position you are being put in and the unwanted stress it is obviously causing. Your OH manager should be sacked if they think lupus is not a medical condition!!! Unbelievable!! It is vital that you have someone with you at the interview, and, if your union rep or equivalent person is not available on the date proposed, then the date should be changed to accommodate the union rep or other official support as others have said. You are obviously well-organised with facts and figures, and I would rely heavily on these and not be led into irrelevant conversations which will be designed to confuse you. Don't let anyone put you off, as you are backed by facts and well within your rights. Let the other side have to prove their points, as you don't have to. I do understand your situation as I faced a similar one when being signed off work after an operation as my GP considered my work tasks unsuitable during my recovery, and my employer was unwilling to make any concessions, even temporary ones. I was sacked, but in my case there was nothing I could do as I was in the probationary period of a new job. Your case is entirely different in that respect. As a final note I would definitely recommend contacting ACAS. The advice is not only very helpful, comprehensive and up-to-date, but completely free. I have had tremendous help from them in the past. However hard, stay strong and positive. All the best.
Bless you for your supportive response. I am ‘in a better place’ mentally. And feel that the decision, whatever that may be, has already been made. So I will deal with whatever that looks like when I know.
I am glad to hear you are feeling "in a better place" now. Having a solid factual case and personal support should benefit you and help to make the process as stress-free as possible. You sound so motivated that you must not let this sorry state of affairs get the better of you. It makes me so sad when people who actually want to work, and who make a valuable contribution both to society and the economy, seem to find so many obstacles put in their way, despite all the emphasis being placed on inclusivity of all types. Well done for doing what you do, and keep that positive mindset going! Don't forget to ask for the evidence showing that lupus is not a medical condition!! That would certainly lighten the load of many rheumies!! All the best.
Oh I do like the idea of turning the tables and asking for evidence that lupus is not a medical condition in the opinion of my OH officer. Thank you for that 😃
Hi I have Lupus and you will be covered by the Disability equality Act 2010 . Your employer has to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate your condition .As long as any absence is linked to your illness it cant be counted as a normal absence . Good luck xx
Hi, I’ve heard that a reasonable adjustment is commonly HR running 2 sick records, one related to lupus other for any other reason. Also that I should be allowed time to attend medical appointments appended to the lupus sick record. I am hoping for THAT outcome. Fingers crossed 🤞
As MusicalFurbaby says, arm yourself with your Disability / Discrimination legislation. I was wondering if you are in a Union? I work in the NHS and my Union rep has been invaluable. If you are, always have a rep at your meetings. I hope all goes well but please fight any bullying or discrimination if they try that. You are protected by law.
Hi, my employer doesn’t count illness due to lupus as incidences of sickness. ( we too have a 6 incidences system) it’s part of the reasonable adjustments I have been given, along with time off for medical appointments. I’m not sure if you have access to unions in the police service, civilian staff do, but probably not serving officers. Lupus is a disability, and you are entitled to reasonable adjustments by law, although it is not set in stone what they are. You and your employer need to agree on them. If none have been made then I’d push for that. If you don’t get anywhere try contacting ACAS, and they may be able to help you.
So sorry to hear you are going through this. As a reasonable employer they should be supporting you to remain in work not causing stress that would potentially mean you need to take further time off. I’m an independent HR Consultant so happily provide any advice you need. I would suggest writing a statement to be read. These meetings can be overwhelming sometimes. I would also suggest that 3 of their representatives is a bit mob handed. Particularly as the OH has expressed their doubt of a valid condition. They have already demonstrated their inability to be impartial. You must definitely can ask for the meeting to be arranged for when your Rep is available. As others have said any lupus related absences shouldn’t count. So you would run 2 records as others have said. The police force have extensive resources so should be going over and above to support you in comparison to an independent small business. Please do message me separately if you need any help/advice.
Thank you so much. I feel prepared & have just received the docs prior to meeting. There are a couple of major discrepancies which I have challenged. The HR were suitably embarrassed. So I await that response. As far as my employment solicitor advisor has said this should be sufficient reasons to cancel the meeting. However I want to discuss the parallel sickness record process as a reasonable adjustment as a priority point. I am really grateful for your offer of support & advice 😇
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