theguardian.com/world/2020/...
Thought this was interesting.
Long Covid? Or something from the autoimmune menu? - LUPUS UK
Long Covid? Or something from the autoimmune menu?
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PMRpro
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Very interesting - thank you!
Although interesting and finally reading that someone has noticed that ME at least is similar it does worry me that a doctor suffering from fatigue and probably brain fog is seeing patients. As it took me 3 attempts today to put something in the fridge [I tried the lounge and 2 cupboards first] I wouldn't feel safe with a foggy doctor.
😀😀😀 Brilliant!
Indeed, no mention of autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren's. etc and lupus of course. It's somewhat concerning. Medics need to wake up, absolutely!
This is LONG covid, the term is applied to patients in the chronic recovery stagem, not the acute period.
I think it is a matter of time that they will discover the similarities with Lupus, too. And the famous plaqunil would be beneficial to moderate the misbehaving immune system.
They're getting there, slowly but surely....a couple of sentences on AI links:
"Fatigue isn’t only associated with ME/CFS, but with many inflammatory illnesses. Time will tell if the fatigue of long Covid is akin to the fatigue of CFS, or more akin to the fatigue of multiple sclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis,”
...and also potentially an end to the Graded ExerciseTreatment cure....
by telling people to carry on even if their tiredness increases is dangerous to those suffering post-exertional malaise,” ....GET could be counterproductive in those patients presenting with a “boom and bust” pattern of symptoms HOORAY
...and the importance of pacing has a cameo role too ! 
Little by little, the AI world is crashing into long covid! xxxx
.........or long Covid is crashing into the AI world! xxx
Don't care which way - as long as it means they take some notice!!!
Extremely interesting, thank you.
The first panphlet I was ever handed on Lupus in 1985 said - the cause was unknown but they suspected it could be triggered by a virus. It was about then when Doctors were thinking of some lupus research. Recently with covid I've wondered wether perhaps its more like an epigenetic vaunerability passed down from a historical plague ?.....Its just so freakishly similar - including the unexplained fatigue.
As for pushing people with ME into excersise. I have POTs which is considered one of the elements of ME - although damage of the dorsal root ganglia from SLE - or protracted B12 and iron deficiency etc. seems a pretty logical exlanation for me.
I also became badly de- conditioned when told not to even move if I could help it with a renal flare.
I know excersise in the ME world is contraversial for very good reason - but my GP refused to prescribe POTs meds until I tried the excersise.
It was the most anti - intuitive thing I've ever done and I still fall into a post excersise malaise occasionally and as always I run out of umph before pretty much everyone. But I had a very good medical physiologist- gently ease me into it and then left me to it ( and would gently nudge me away from hanging upside down on gym equipment 😁 for relief )
Now a few years on - I still have POTs, but not nearly as badly - the BP and heart fluctuations are far less extreme - and devastating heart & BP plunge on standing is near gone. Dispite a dodgy systoltic - I've never had more energy and less depression in my life.
Muscles instead of compression stockings - stronger heart to compensate damaged nerves - better circulation and close to a cure for brain fog as I've ever found - as excersise gets some much needed extra blood to my wilting brain.
I can't speak to ME or post covid syndrome - but I'd recommend anybody in SLE remmision who has become decondtioned to try it. Its made me feel mentally and physically stronger.
You really don't have to exert yourself too much to get good results.
Simple squats and step ups are good during lock down.
Interestingly a friend was speaking to a HCP cousin who was claiming (as current thinking) that the bubonic plague in the Dark Ages produced a genetic clean out and those with illnesses now thought to be AI eg eczema survived as their open wounds stimulated an ongoing immune response that protected against the plague, meaning nowadays their descendants can ride out Covid without problem, like her 83-year-old uncle in a care home where 17 dies, who suffered nothing more than no appetite for a day................................last rheumy I saw told me 'we've done research' and that lupus patients aren't impacted any more severely by covid..
Anyway, there does seem to be something genetic about covid ?
Yes, all for exercise, just finding the right amount that doesn't leave you laid up for days is the trick to it ...did someone say 'pacing' ? xxxx
....so AI disorders may have an epigenetic background?
😬😬😬
Just a thought 🙂
......I have a research background
A drug for rheumatoid arthritis may help coronavirus patients in intensive care, research from Imperial College London has found. The drug, tocilizumab, suppresses the immune system, which goes into overdrive in some coronavirus patients. The study has not been formally published yet, but researcher Anthony Gordon said the findings were ‘very encouraging’.
They are working hard to determine what the nature of the long term symptoms is. Researchers are definitely looking into all possibilities. There may be different mechanisms. Some may have CFS, some inflammatory issues, some lingering virus, and some will develop full blown autoimmune diseases.
I just read an article by two immunologists. It doesn’t look like anything is being missed.
I have post-inflammatory issues from Covid and have no sense the doctors are ruling anything out with Covid. But they stress how much they don’t know. It is conceding.
To some extent there must be some parallels between PMR/GCA and long Covid because the IL-6 cytokine is what causes our problems - and why tocilizumab shows an effect in the severe cases
There are going to be lots of connections. As my rheumatologist told me yesterday, it is known that certain infections precipitate autoimmune disease. They are noting anti-phospholipid antibodies in patients with cytokine storm.
I think we are going to be left with many chronically ill people from this pandemic.
Which may in the long term be worse than the acute problems now. They may come to regret telling younger people they would be less likely to be ill/at risk. Like the "masks don't help" bit.
My sentiments exactly. I just told my nephew, who has canceled holiday travel, the same thing regarding his seven month old. All ages need to be concerned. Pediatricians seem worried.
I think it is why this second spike is worse than the first - the younger people have been blasee. A local World Cup skier in his late 30s and his family have all tested positive - and he is saying he has it badly, this is no joke whatever anyone tries to tell you. We, on the other hand, have been scared enough to preserve ourselves and accept the limitations - what's keeping out of crowds and not spending money for a year to be able to live for a lot longer? I was astounded at the bank balance yesterday!!
Absolutely!
April 2020 is almost pre-history in Covud terms - but what I was meaning is something different. Not how we who already have a/i disorders would cope with Covid but that Covid is triggering an epidemic of new a/i disorders, with some form of vasculitis high up the list.
Any where IL-6 is the cytokine involved, GCA and PMR being two and some cases of RA. In Covid, IL-6 is involved in the cytokine storm that leads to the respiratory tract problems.
Yep, that's the one. : )
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