low white count, no one will provide a letter for work. Does my son need one? Any help please

Hi, Can anyone help my son please. I have Lupus etc but have retired son isolate at this time. My son who is 31 lives near Glasgow. He is a postman. He has Graves, APS, and Lupus .His partner is a nurse. They are taking every precaution to keep safe. He has continued to work and following a discussion with his manager he was put on package duties away from others, but still other workers broke the 2 metre rule.

He met with his rheumy nurse yesterday, she explained that his white count has fallen again and that she thinks he should not be working for the next 12 weeks.

He told work and they asked for a doctors letter! He asked the GP, who said it should come from the rheumy who had suggested it. They said he doesn't need it. I don't think he needs it.

Anything he can quote please to back him up at work.

[Paul_Howard Partner LUPUS UK]

Hi Hidden ,

ACAS are advising employers to be flexible with their usual requirements for fit/sick notes at this time because of the immense pressure the NHS is under - they are having to prioritise tasks and are not currently issuing sick notes generally. acas.org.uk/coronavirus

[Hidden in reply to Paul_Howard]

Thankyou Paul for your feed back. I had a look on the ACAS site this afternoon. Im a retired nurse and advised David that the doctors were unlikely to provide letter due to their current work loads. The problem is his employer. They adjusted his work load however, there is no PPE despite working with the public. People are not social distancing. It was when the nurse advised that his white cell count was extremely low that he spoke to his manager about being off work. They asked for a letter. He is not in the level 3 category, the nurse said level 2. He is alittle stuck.

[happytulip in reply to Hidden]

How about he gets in contact with the nurse who told him to self-isolate? The nurse really should have given him a letter there and then instead of sending him off to sort it himself.

If it's her advice she needs to put it in writing.

I get clinic summary letters from my follow up appointments with my nurse. If he contacted her today perhaps she could email something over or fast track a letter?

[Hidden in reply to happytulip]

Thanks. He called her but she said he didn't need a letter, that he was covered by the 80%. I think she was confused with the furlough people, which Royal mail are not doing as they have work for their staff. The GP is snowed under which he understands and he did not have the results of the blood test. His manager says as David is not the teir 3 who received the government letter, he needs a letter from the doctor! So hes gone round in a circle.

Hes happy to work if others would keep their distance. He says co workers lean in the van window, to speak to him. They come over with packages rather than leaving them to pick up etc There is no PPE

Thankyou for responding. He is in the situation of many where there is a small loop hole.

[happytulip in reply to Hidden]

Definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I think if it were me I would try yet again to go back to the specialist nurse because she was the one giving the advice.

I was a nurse and would always give follow up written advice as evidence, and in a pandemic she should be doing that. Knowing me I'd just keep on at her until she got fed up with me and gave me a letter of evidence just to get me to go away!

I really feel for your son. Alot of people have been told to self-isolate by medical personnel but haven't been given the documentation to back it up. Makes for a very stressful situation.

[Paul_Howard Partner LUPUS UK in reply to Hidden]

Hi Hidden ,

If his employer is insisting he works without the letter then they have to guarantee a safe working environment, which isn't likely to happen.

This situation is without precedent so there is a bit of a scramble to get good legal advice. ARMA sought the advice of a solicitor working in employment law and he provided some helpful information;

I am in a high risk group and I need to self-isolate. Can my employer sack me if I don’t come into work? Can I get sick pay?

If your employer dismisses you then you may have a claim for automatic unfair dismissal under s100(1)(d) or (e) of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (“ERA”), no minimum qualifying period of employment is required to bring this claim.

ss100(1)(d) and (e) ERA state

(d )in circumstances of danger which the employee reasonably believed to be serious and imminent and which he could not reasonably have been expected to avert, he left (or proposed to leave) or (while the danger persisted) refused to return to his place of work or any dangerous part of his place of work, or

(e)in circumstances of danger which the employee reasonably believed to be serious and imminent, he took (or proposed to take) appropriate steps to protect himself or other persons from the danger.

It will be important that you explain to your employer (providing proof if required) why you consider yourself to be in a high risk group and explain the need for you to self-isolate, if your employer ignores this and dismisses you if you don’t come into work then you may have a claim for automatic unfair dismissal. It is important to act reasonably as a tribunal will scrutinise your actions under s100(1)(d) or (e) ERA as applicable. It would be prudent to get an ‘isolation note’ from the NHS 111 online website. If you are incapable of working due to COVID-19 you will be entitled to SSP.

Disclaimer:

This information summarises the general position at law only, and the position may vary on the facts of each individual case. If you are sacked you should seek advice on your individual situation urgently. Please note that you are normally expected to bring a claim to the Employment Tribunal within three months.

[Shann07]

Hi, I was in a similiar situation, I was considered moderate risk, and didnt get a letter, I needed this for work too as I have lung issues, sle etc. My GP phoned my Rheumatologist to enquire and Rheummy said I definately needed to isloate for 12 weeks and issued the letter without question. Is it possible for your son to contact his Rheumatologist re this, his Consultant might be of a different view to that of the GP, as was the case with me. Only I questioned why I wasnt getting a letter I would have never have received it. His specialist knows his condition best, GP’s are only matching against a very general criteria. Lupus is such a complicated disease, that wreaks havoc on our bodies, I could only imagine our immune response to a virus as deadly as this, dread to think, plus your son has overlap disease of APS (i have this also). I hope he has a good outcome, its so unfair employers are being so difficult, but you wont get anywhere if you dont ask, dont be afraid to contact the specialists, even the secretary and leave a message for someone to call him back to advise. 😌

[jeanette60]

Hi. I had this issue with work. I got a letter from reumatology advising me to shield but it was addressed to Dear Patient. I rang helpline and nurse phoned me back to say that she will send a new letter with my name on. I've told my employer this and have stayed away from work. He shouldn't have to be in work after receiving this advice. He could try ringing to request a letter for work and then he could tell work that a medical professional has advised to shield and the letter is on the way. Good luck.x

[Hidden in reply to jeanette60]

Thankyou. He phoned the rheumy nurse twice, it was her who said the letter needed to come from the GP. he has since spoken to haematology as David has ASP . He has said that the low white count is not indicative of infection as his level is always low. ( mine is the same). So he has had to return to work.