Myths and facts about nutrition

[Simba1992]

It is very overwhelming reading about all you should eat and not eat. Ofcourse it does depend on your individual situation how you can benefit from different nutrients but if we look at nutrients as such without thinking about a specifif individual it is interesting to understand what is true and what is false. Here is interesting reading about this.

westonaprice.org/health-top...

[benwl]

I don't think the weston price foundation is a reliable source of nutritional information.

This is a good article on why not:

sciencebasedmedicine.org/sb...

[Cooper27 Administrator]

Thanks for sharing. I'm confused by their "debunking" of vegetarianism being healthier. They write:

The annual all-cause death rate of vegetarian men is slightly more than that of non-vegetarian men (.93% vs .89%); the annual death rate of vegetarian women is significantly more than that of non-vegetarian women (.86% vs .54%) (Am J Clin Nutr 1982 36:873)

I don't know what that means - are they saying more vegetarians die each year compared to meat eaters? I think I'd need to know the average age of death for this to mean anything.

[Simba1992 in reply to Cooper27]

Life expectancy lower among vegeterians. I assume it means.These dangers seem relevant to me in vegan diet.

butternutrition.com/10-vega...

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to Simba1992]

I'm guessing that's what they're saying, but I feel like it's missing a key word or two. I'll check out the other link this evening

[andyswarbs in reply to Simba1992]

Hi simba1992, can I pick up on the meat protein is better myth. Did you know that research shows vegans have better protein levels than meat eaters!

[andyswarbs in reply to Simba1992]

I disagree that these dangers are relevant to a vegan diet. I don't think a vegetarian diet is any better than an omnivorous diet and how one can deduce from that that a vegan diet has similar outcomes is beyond me. Yes there are dangers in any diet. Make a mess of any diet and you are in trouble. For example anyone who eats meat has to store it properly, cook it properly or else they will endure at least severe gastric issues.

On the other hand the Adventist health study 2, for example, which is very far from a trivial study, given the number of participants, the study duration, and the design of the study shows health conscious vegans fare better than health conscious omnivores, even accounting for other important variables. That study has far more credibility in my mind.

[Simba1992 in reply to andyswarbs]

Hello Andy, nice to hear from you again, Understanding this world of diets and their effects on our organism is really a jungle. I keep on researching and experimenting on my body. This has helped me to be much better at really listning to my body and making sense of my reactions to foods and supplements. As far as my individual situation there is no specific diet as such that would support my bodies normal functions but a combination of many nutrients.

I found this article quite interesting, showing how unclear things on this front are.

180degreehealth.com/ray-pea...

All the best, Simba

[Simba1992]

Don't really know anything about this organisation but if you take myth by myth and do your own research, which I have done for a very long time, I find that the points taken up about diffrent nutritions very believable.

[Zest]

Hi Simba1992

I shall most likely have more time to have a look at your article on the weekend.

Hope you're enjoying your day so far.

Zest

[Simba1992 in reply to Zest]

Thank you😊Hope to hear you thoughts.

[gbn_]

Hello. Well, I read the westonaprice article. Honestly, for me, controversy will probably always remain in the world of nutrition, some things I can kind of relate to, others, I can't. I try to study nutrition the best I can,on my own, with reading and trying to remain up-dated with supplements and foods. This much I can tell you however, 10 years ago I suffered a major heart attack,widow maker, was actually dead for about 20 minutes while I was being worked on. At the time, I was a bodybuilder,no one ate better than I did, and while in the hospital, they took blood to check my cholesterol levels. Well, they came back a second time to take more. My cholesterol was 142, triglycerides were 44. Very little meat, mostly veggies,olive oil,and fish. Which is how I still eat today. I try to stay away from simple carbs,and next to no sugar.

[Simba1992 in reply to gbn_]

Hello gbn,

Sorry for your quite terrible experience Im sure. I do believe that nutrition is just part of the equation. Body building brings its own stressfactors and affects metabolism in its own way. Here is what a well known heart surgeon says about nutrition.

myscienceacademy.org/2012/0...

And about the dangers with too much physical stress.

functionalps.com/blog/2012/...

[gbn_ in reply to Simba1992]

Hi Simba. Great reading here, specifically for functionalps. It contained other interesting articles also. As the myscienceacademy mentioned about inflamation, eating simple carbs and sugars is something that I've stayed away from. Sugar is not your friend. Even whole grains will eventually break down into sugars, it just might take longer. As with the great exercise article, it seems to throw almost everything out of text with the benefits associated with exercise, especially running or endurance types of it. Never was much of a runner, but I do lift weights,which I thought, was beneficial to you. So, with that being said, controversy exists in almost everything in the world of nutrition. Some may read the article and change their outlook completely, while others may balk at the info. What does a person do?? One study says exercise is great, and another says it will slowly almost kill you. There is one thing to consider here, shortly after my heart attack, I was placed in exercise rehab quite quickly, very light weights, and actual running on machines along with other exercises.

[Simba1992 in reply to gbn_]

Thank you for your reply gbn,

The more I have done research on undrestanding the biochemistry and metabolism of the human body as well as how different organsystems work together controlled by hormones, immunesystem and microbiome the more I believe. that this science should guide what we eat and how we take care of our bodies. We are already aware that there are elements in our daily food that in fact cause problems for our metabolism. At least by minimizing the intake of these we do decrease the internal stress. Perhaps the best thing is to decrease ongoing overwhelming stress anywhere in our lives. Understanding what pressing your body physically really means on a cellular biochemical level should be something that we should be more aware of. Not just believing it's automaticly good for us since we have read it somewhere, are we really sure that less wouldn't be better?The same goes for this huge number of different diets and nutritional "facts".

Knowing how your body works helps you listen to its reactions to diets, foods and excersize, this being the most essential thing in the end in my opinion.

This reading may interest you as well

cowseatgrass.org/2018/12/04...

[gbn_ in reply to Simba1992]

Hi Simba. Yes, it can get really complicated at times, my head often spins with different articles and studies. There is an old saying-"everything in moderation", which may eventually prevail as the ultimate info. I belong to a few good sites, and I also belong to "Life Extension Foundation". As is said many times now-a-days, one day fish oil is good, the next day, it's bad for you. Same with coconut oils,butter,eggs,dairy,daily multi vitamins, and everything else that's fit to print, only to be debated at a later date because of a study that was done to add even more debate and confusion!

[Simba1992 in reply to gbn_]

When you always ask why and what the effect on your normal biochemistry is. It helps to come closer to the truth.😊🤓

[gbn_ in reply to Simba1992]

Hi Simba. Yes, very true. There is more to it than "meets the eye" on many things. Unless you are a true scientist with certain knowledge(which would be a gift in the nutrition world), all I can do is learn the best I can with reading current studies and the like. As a strange example here, I love avocados, with the mono-unsaturated fats and certain nutrients that are good for health, but, I read an article(forgot where), which went on to say that avocado's actually can change your DNA!!! I believe I read it on Superfoodly.

[Simba1992 in reply to gbn_]

If you want to learn really good science do look into Ray Peats work He is a well known scientist and biochemist and he really explains stuff so it makes sense. There are a lot of interesting articles on raypeat.com. It takes a long time to assimilate everything but it's worth it.👍🏻🤓

[andyswarbs in reply to gbn_]

Lots of foods change your genes.

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to andyswarbs]

But we're born with our genes? Food is only one corner of the triangle that decides whether the genes we carry are activated or not.

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to gbn_]

I'm sorry to hear about your heart attack! Can I ask whether you were exercising when you had the heart attack?

[gbn_ in reply to Cooper27]

Hi Cooper. No, I wasn't exercising when it happened, I walked into work, punched my time card, walked down the hall, and actually fell over dead(for a time).

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to gbn_]

That's scary, I'm so sorry that happened to you I hope you're keeping well now!

[gbn_ in reply to gbn_]

Hi Cooper. Thanks for your kind reply. Actually, I'm doing the same today as I did 10 years ago. Eating the same way, taking supplements, exercising,etc.

[chavaudret in reply to gbn_]

I totally agree gbn

I resisted methotrexate for years , and now RA has caused soft tissue damage, and I have endomycardial fibrosis and c, I wish I had done the diet above years ago and healed the RA naturally, before my immune system became so compromised , I have taken sulpasalazine for 25 years

thanks for your advice Im doing your diet too

Px

[gbn_ in reply to chavaudret]

Hi chavaudret. Thank you for the reply. Is the RA arthritis? And, is the endomycardial fibrosis a situation with your heart? As with healing the RA, what did you include, or exclude in diet? As with methotrexate and sulpasalazine, ,I am not familiar with them. My diet isn't too complicated, I just try to eat certain foods to help me with inflamation probably caused by my exercising, taking supplements, and as mentioned, just trying to navigate around all the different info out there just trying to keep healthy as one can.

[madametobacco49]

One word: KETO....It has changed my life!! I am so grateful Hugs,MmeT

[Simba1992 in reply to madametobacco49]

Not everyones metabolism can adjust to this, though.

[andyswarbs]

Lots to pick up on. Let me start with the b12 myth as suggested by WP. My only source is vegan algae tablets. So, if algae derived is unabsorbable then why are my b12 levels good?

[gbn_ in reply to andyswarbs]

Hi andyswarbs. If your B12 levels are good taking vegan algae tablets, then I would continue taking them, they must be doing good for you. As previously stated, nutrition can be very controversial with all the conflicting studies out there which really, really make it hard for most people to actually believe one article over another. People swear by one protocol, while others follow another. High fat, low fat, keto, whole grain, no grain, polyunsaturated fats, monounsaturated fats, keeping cholesterol high, keeping it low, you really have to navigate your own ship to try to make sense with all the literature out there now, it almost never ends!

[madametobacco49 in reply to gbn_]

Excellent reply gbn--we must know or get to know our own bodies and needs and develop an individualized plan that works for us. TY-MmeT

[Simba1992 in reply to madametobacco49]

Agree 100%😊

[gbn_ in reply to madametobacco49]

Hi madametobacco. Thanks for your reply. It can really be tough sometimes to go through all the information as to what you think will work for you, only to find out at a later date that controversy exists with this particular way to eat, or that particular way to eat. But as you mentioned, to find a plan that works for you.

[andyswarbs]

Let me pick up on a another Myth/truth according to Weston Price...

Myth: Saturated fat clogs arteries.

Truth: The fatty acids found in artery clogs are mostly unsaturated (74%) of which 41% are polyunsaturated. (Lancet 1994 344:1195)

So what is this saying? One way of interpreting this is that 100% of artery blockages are caused by fatty deposits. Whether one goes down the PUFA route or the SFA route seems a secondary issue.

I do not consider either PUFAs or SFAs as healthy choices. If the 74% claim is right, SFAs cause (according to this very small study of 9 white men) a 26% chance of a clogged artery and PUFAs 74% chance.

Instead why not go for a 100% chance of no artery clogging with a WFPB no refined oils?

[gbn_ in reply to andyswarbs]

Hi andyswarbs. Yes, if one follows the famous Pritkin type diet, they say to stay away from all types of oils, they claim that oils decrease endothelium function in the veins, but, they also go on to say that if you do use any, to use canola oil sparingly. Yet, many pieces of literature recommend the use of EVO, stating that it's the best, yet if you look at some of the "cookie-cutter"type reports on heart health, you will read the "same-ole, same-ole" info that polyunsaturated fats are good for you. Many of these sites probably use re-hashed info over and over again. Many other sites advocate the use of avocado oil, walnut oil,grape seed oil,coconut oil, etc. So, who is right?? All the different info out there states that "this" is the thing to do on their particular sites. I try to look for actual medical type studies, but these too can be quite confusing with conflicting info.

[Simba1992]

Here is a lot of science about oils. And a lot of research links.

raypeat.com/articles/articl...

[andyswarbs in reply to Simba1992]

Has ray ever commented on the research showing 70% of oils are rancid before they leave the supermarket. Probably caused by exposure to light, instead of oxidation that he limits his discussion to.

[chavaudret in reply to andyswarbs]

you have to freeze organic linseed oil and decant it in small usable bottles and keep it in the freezer the same with seeds you need to buy the whole and grind them in a coffee grinder then add to the smoothies , 75% plant based organic , only berries sugar free , only xylitol as sweetener small amounts of organic fish, no white veg

[andyswarbs in reply to chavaudret]

Once that seed hull is cracked open, that's when rancidity starts.

[Simba1992 in reply to andyswarbs]

Digging deeper into fish oils. Thought this was quite informative. Have a nice day.😊Simba

raypeat.com/articles/articl...

[gbn_ in reply to Simba1992]

Hi Simba. Good read. I actually lean towards EVO. Yet I'm sure that some controversy would exist even with that article. Oils are just one thing to debate, nutrients are another. Just look, it is said that the nutrient choline is essential for liver health, helps greatly, and is found in a few foods, especially eggs, which opens up controversy for even that food, but, studies have concluded that choline in the diet is associated with certain cancers, especially prostate type, so how do you wrap your head around the info that choline is essential, while other studies say that it is detrimental to health?? The old Budwig protocol calls for flax oil mixed in cottage cheese to help many things, but in actuality, is it really good for you?? Makes one to just want to bang their head against the wall!!!

[Simba1992 in reply to gbn_]

Have been bangin many times😰However here an interesting discussion on choline.

raypeatforum.com/community/...

[chavaudret in reply to gbn_]

I see a naturopathic oncologist , she advocates budwig with organic goats yogurt letchinin and flax seed oil for butter mayonnaise and breakfast with berries added no bananas or oats too much sugar, so nut muesli with seeds for breakfast

and the budwig mix I trust her i wish I saw her years ago to heal my RA I was too busy running a business

[Kai--]

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Additional perspective/ context on Weston A. Price Foundation, Simba1992:

• Weston A. Price Foundation: sourcewatch.org/index.php/W...

. . .(from SourceWatch.org: sourcewatch.org/index.php?t... )

• Reflections On The Weston A. Price Foundation: vegsource.com/news/2009/11/...

. . . (from John Robbins: sourcewatch.org/index.php?t... ; healthunlocked.com/healthye... )

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