I promised Hidden that if I have bad news for vegans then I would shout it from the tree-tops and that's what I am going to do today. Why did I promise this? Because I was accused of spreading propaganda that vegan is best, vegans are great, that meat & dairy is bad, blah blah blah.
Whatever, I try to go with the science and as I find out more about science I want to share those highlights here. That also means that I refine my food choices, based on ideas I learn. Getting to the good science is sometimes very difficult. The dairy industry in the USA was successfully prosecuted for spreading very poor quality research and using it to actively promote milk as a health food. This research was proven in a court of law that it designed from the outset to show milk consumption was good for health. But that is another story.
Just because milk is not good for health that does not mean, per se that all vegan foods are good for health. One controversy that came to light at least in 2004 - because of research - that a significant number of vegans get cancer. And that is what this post is about.
I don't pretend to understand all the nuances of the story. I am trying to get up to speed, but this is partly a story of a deeper understanding of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. Partly it is a story of soy, particularly soy used in meat-replacement products such as burgers.
However the biggest part of the story is about IGF1. This is found in milk and helps bones grow. Obviously we want our children to have healthy growth, however as we become adults more growth is not what we generally want. IGF1 has one role in the body - helping growth. IGF1 is found in dairy milk and is designed to turn a baby calf into a huge heffer. It does that very successfully.
The challenge with growth is we want bone growth until we reach maturity. However IGF1 has been shown to promote cancer growth as well. This is one of the main reasons I advocate people should not consume dairy.
But, and this is a big but, IGF1 is found in soy, especially isolated soy protein. Not just that but the levels of IGF1 in soy are twice that of in dairy. Most of the problem seems to be with isolated soy protein which is used in many meat/dairy replacement products such as tofu burgers.
You can learn so very much more by watching the fruit doctor's episode on the subject youtube.com/watch?v=D8i94tT... where she covers what I have said above and discusses cases of some high-profile vegan activists who died from cancer.
And this is my final point. People who go vegan for ethical reasons (animal welfare) may not transition towards a plant-food diet designed for health reasons. They may get stuck in "transition" foods such as meat alternatives. These could be soy-based ice creams, milks, burgers etc etc. It is so important for new people who go vegan to see this as a learning curve and to learn about the health benefits of heading towards a whole-food plant based diet, especially one with minimal oils. And part of that is a transition away from meat-replacement transition foods.
For myself I am trying to remember when I last had soy, in any form. That is a long time ago. When I first went vegetarian often I would have had a things like TVP, textured vegetable protein, which is actually soy protein. So it is possible my body has cancer inside it from that history. That was a risk that I did not know about. Hopefully my current diet, which has no soy in it will reverse any potential cancerous growth that might have happened in the past.
For everyone else who has adopted a vegan styled diet, my advice would be to use transition foods as a way of getting used to a vegan lifestyle, but to phase them out as you learn about the benefits of plant-based approach and gain more confidence in cooking and eating that day.
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andyswarbs
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Hi @little_toad, this is a general health section with existing threads on vegan subjects. I am thinking of cross-posting this in that group and thanks for echoing my own thoughts.
However knowing that anothermember belongs to this group and the relevant post was in this forum meant this group was a priority for posting. To post elsewhere exclusively would be to dishonour to anothermember.
Does having a specialist vegan group mean there should be no vegan related posts here? I don't think so. At risk of repeating myself, the title of this group is "healthyeating." Surely the only way to know what is healthy is to follow the science. Anecdotal evidence is nice. It says something is possible but it says almost nothing about the general long-term health risks & benefits are.
So if someone loves eating eggs, salmon and so forth, that's great for them. Please go ahead and enjoy. And yes the overwhelming evidence is that you won't die from it now or in the very near future. Try a similar experiment with bleach and I am sure you or anyone else would end up in emergency section of a hospital as soon as the ambulance could get you there since your life is likely to be at serious and immediate risk. (Please don't anyone try this!!)
With salmon, eggs and so forth we are talking about long term risks, long term health outcomes. Salmon is 20% saturated fat and 18% cholesterol. So if you subscribe to the view that these two will reverse atherosclerosis, prevent heart attacks, prevent strokes, prevent diabetes type 2 and much more, fine. As far as I know it is not what the overwhelming science says, fine that's your choice. I seriously want to find out what that science is that supports different health claims in case I am wrong.
So if someone says, "I made a lovely bone broth" then I for one will not comment on that. If however someone says that it is healthy then I want, and surely every one else here deserves that health claim justified. The same is true for soy, as per this thread. It is true for any and all foods.
As far as I'm aware vegans are still welcome on this forum - although I'm a vegan I have no problem reading details of your meals and I find them just as informative and inspiring as the vegan ones. I'd hope others feel the same.
Particularly when considering the political climate in parts of the western world, there's a real danger from the echo chamber effect where people are only aware of and then seek out views that precisely match their own, and tolerance and appreciation of our differences are lost.
Vegans are indeed most welcome and I'd like to point out that Deb's is 'our' vegan star on HE because we embrace and respect everyones dietary needs and choices.
As far as I'm concerned we as members have a common interest in healthy eating for us and this should unite us rather than force us into cliques.
That was a complex post🤤. I eat healthy but dont go to that extreme. Besides i am no vegan so dont really matter to me. I will however be making my own sweet potato and spinach curry all from scratch without any salt 😋
Thank you for taking the time to try to read it. At least you know now that if you ever do decide to go closer towards a vegan diet an that that means you start to eat more soy - then you know that it is best to continue the change towards a healthier diet than stick in a "transition" phase in the long term.
PS and remember, for anyone who eats Chinese food that much of that contains soy sauce. I don't actually know if soy sauce is implicated. Because it is mostly a fermented product it may be fine. Perhaps someone else knows the answer to that. I have used Tamari sauce (a soy sauce alternative) at home for several years because of celiac friends.
Sorry, I couldn't watch the whole video because it's just too silly.
IGF-1 is a protein. Like any other protein, it will be disassembled into amino acids as soon as it hits you stomach. Even if by some miracle a few IGF-1 molecules make it through unscathed into your intestine, there is no possible way for it to get into your bloodstream. It's too big. Any observed decrease in endogenous IGF-1 on a vegan diet would be due, most likely, to malnutrition (ie., your body modulates its own IGF-1 downwards because it doesn't have enough raw material available to actually sustain additional growth).
Nobody knows why vegans get cancer, but since vegans and carnivores get cancer at broadly the same rates (albeit with some variation in TYPES of cancer) it's probably nothing to do with being vegan.
One huge, definite association with cancer: not exercising. For some unknown reason, regular exercise slows down the rate at which telomeres are shortened during DNA replication (or, possibly, enhances their repair). This effect is independent of diet.
Hi TAD, research ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... shows that "A portion of enterally administered 125I-IGF-I and 125I-IGF-II can be recovered intact from gastrointestinal tissues of suckling rats, which indicates that the peptide is stable in the milieu of the neonatal stomach and small intestine."
Large proteins have been found in the blood stream. This is often considered because of an overly leaky gut.
Telomeres I am extremely interested in finding more about.
You seem to know alot about proteins 💪 could you tell me about casein and whey supplements thank you.
I’ll second that. Very interested in the soy supplements. Which I use every day in my smoothies
Sorry if it’s been covered here, but I’ve speculated that the pesticide residues on so much of our vegan type foods may contribute to cancers. It’s very obvious looking at the produce and fruit sections in the market that chemicals have been used
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Chinese consumers are now turning vegan 💚
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