31 eggs collected, 20 ICSI injected. 1 made it to the freezer?

[Scarlett32]

Story in bio - 31 eggs collected, 20 ICSI injected. 1 made it to the freezer, what could be wrong with my eggs? What tests to ask for please? Thank you in advance- losing faith.

[PinkCat22]

hi Scarlett, I just read your story in your bio. You are an absolute warrior! What an awful lot you’ve been through.

My only practical suggestion is a doctor who really digs into your case history and helps to optimise the quality (the jury is out on whether this works, but it worked for me) by adjusting your protocol. I switched after two rounds to a new clinic and the results from the EC at the new one were night and day. Just so much better.

I was also directed towards various supplements like vitamin K, ubuiqonol, methyl folate and I also upped the quality of my regular TTC supplements. Zita west (who were not my clinic but make supplements) have lots of info on their website about this and bundles you can get that are really good.

all this said, everything I'm saying here is anecdotal, and only based in my experience. I found it so helpful getting some sessions with a fertility coach (not as expensive as it sounds) who used to be an embryologist really helped me to ask the right questions when choosing a new clinic or deciding on treatment plans.

Also highly recommend following emma the embryologist and two lines fertility on social media. They both post a LOT of information I think you might find helpful.

Above all, I’m sending you HUGE hugs and so much love. You’re so strong to have come through all this and I hope you know how strong you are. Much love xxx

[Scarlett32 in reply to PinkCat22]

Hello PinkCat22, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and to read my story. I really appreciate your kind thoughts, and the recommendations. I will take a look around and I'm wondering if there are any tests they can do on the eggs that didn't survive to find out if there is something more going wrong. How do we even really know if the eggs are dead and gone. I kind of want to see for myself 🤣!

Sending huge hugs and love to you ❤️

[PinkCat22 in reply to Scarlett32]

I wonder if speaking with the embryology team at your clinic to get some closure would help. They should be able to explain the embryo growth/development results to you. Sometimes things like slow growth are a red flag early on, but at a certain point they can tell if the cells aren't dividing enough and the embryo has stopped growing. My knowledge is very rudimentary on this but I would definitely push to speak to them - it really helped me to understand why/how they make the call on what is not able to be frozen. Really hope you are doing ok xxx

[HelzBelzUK]

Have you spoken to the embryologist? If not i’d recommend scheduling a call.. you’re well within your rights to ask for this!

See if they can shed some light on your egg quality and if they can recommend any investigations. Has your husband/partner had a DNA fragmentation test?

Wishing you lots of luck moving forward xx

[GranolaHippo in reply to HelzBelzUK]

Seconded.

If they used time-lapse (most clinics do) they should be able to tell you when development arrested. This might give you some important info. For example, if it was day 3+, that's when DNA from sperm kicks in, so it might not be eggs.

It's also worth asking them about karyotyping. It's rare but you can have a translocation in your own chromosomes which doesn't mean your eggs are 'bad' but does mean lower rates of blasts (it's a bit like a printing error, where a bit of one chromosome sticks on to another, so you have all the genetic info you need, but when your pairs of chromosomes split, to form pairs with your partner's, they'll have a bit too much of one chromosome and not enough of another).

Surgery can also cause issues with eggs, but normally numbers rather than quality. However, the physical toll of all you've been through could also cause a short lived dip.

So, worth asking embryologist team when things started to stop, and whether there's anything they feel you could learn from that, and then having a look at what else you could do.

I also second emma the embryologist and would add in Dr Tim Child. Have a look back through his previous insta lives for info. They both offer consultations, if you want additional opinions to that of your clinic.

It's also worth asking questions about your stimulation protocol -was it too high? There's a fine balance between quality and quantity.

Xx

[HelzBelzUK in reply to GranolaHippo]

I read that was false about day 1-3 is the egg and then day 4-5 is the sperms. I can’t remember where.. I think it was on Prof Robert Winston’s website.

The embryologist told me that most embryos arrest because of chromosomal abnormalities

[GranolaHippo in reply to HelzBelzUK]

Maybe there is discrepancies within the IVF professional community... emma the embryologist and Dr Tim Child are fairly certain on it.

Although, it's probably more accurate to say, sperm DNA kicks in at day 3 and, therefore can only contribute to arrest after that.

We had PGTA with our first embryos and the genetic counsellor talked through most likely origins of anomalies with us (whole chromosome anomalies = eggs; partial deletions = sperm). So, there is dome difference. I don't know enough to know whether embryos with partial deletions develop further than ones with whole chromosome errors, or whether it's entirely unrelated. Happy to send over the paper the genetic counsellor gave us about thus, if you want a DM.

I think medical professionals often disagree!

[GranolaHippo in reply to GranolaHippo]

Also, yes to chromosomal abnormalities, but they can come from sperm or egg. It's not just eggs getting things 'wrong'!

[Scarlett32 in reply to HelzBelzUK]

Hello HelzBelzUK, thank you so much for your response. I have spoken to the embrologist and they said there are no tests they can do and if the 'eggs are destined to be good then they will be and if there not then they're not'. So that makes me feel/think that it's not destined for me, but on the other hand it does only take 1 and could be destined to be the one for me? Either way I felt that was a bit insensitive to say but I doubt it was meant in that way! We have donor sperm and I did ask if the quality of sperm could be a factor and they said they've had no previous issues with previous individuals or couples who used the same donor. Thank you again for your reply! X

[nat55zt]

I just read your history. Wow. I really hope that your luck changes soon because this is terrible. What does it mean that you had three blastocysts but only one was suitable for freezing? What was wrong with the other two? Asking because it is becoming a standard practice to discard less than perfect embryos even though some of us have has successful pregnancies with slower developing embryos. Also you have had a huge number of eggs collected. I don’t know the science behind it but my clinic does not like that since they think it can impact the quality/maturity of the egg.

[Scarlett32 in reply to nat55zt]

Hello nat55zt thank you so much for your response . I am not sure what was wrong but have asked for some more info and will share an update on what they have said today. I really appreciate what you've said 🙌 x

[Backagain987]

I am so sorry about what you have been through. First of all I wanted to give you some hope, I had a huge fibroid removed like you - I was in my late 20’s. I didnt start trying for a baby until my late 30s and had another open myomectomy to remove over 40 fibroids in my 40s). I am riddled with scar tissue (internal and external) but I had successful IVF (after numerous failed rounds and MC before the surgery) and now have a 2 year old. It can happen.

I think this was your first round of IVF? It’s often a learning round for your clinic. Sounds to me like the drugs you were on overstimulated you so you had loads of eggs but poorer quality. Definitely have a follow up with your consultant (whether you transfer or not) and discuss having a different protocol to get less eggs but more quality - they can manage the number and you will have to see with the latter. Crossing my fingers for you xx

[Scarlett32 in reply to Backagain987]

Hello Backagain987, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I so so needed to hear this! I appreciate what you are saying and agree I need to speak to the clinic. Fibroids are awful and I have heard they grow back quickly so I am worried about having multiple collections. I hope you are doing better after your surgeries and thank you so much for sharing this with me. Xx