Hello,I've just had my 4th FET which is likely another chemical pregnancy. Over 5 years TTC and this will now be my 4th chemical prgenancy (both natural and IVF conception). I cannot get any answers as to why this keeps happening. Is there anyone who has experienced re-current chemical pregnancies and found an answer as to why it kept happening??
I've been tested for APS, prolactin, immune disorders like NK cells, my womb looks fine on scans but I've not had a laprascopy to diagnose endometrosis etc. I've been researching for some years now and there are apparently numerous potential causes. Surely the embryos can't all just be genetically abnormal?
Could anyone shred any light/info what they found out?? I am losing my mind and have no hope left this will work for me. I am baffled I am still here suffering with chemical pregnancies.
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hello, I had recurrent chemicals so I went for an era Alice and Emma tests. The era came back saying I needed an extra day of progesterone so transfer was on day 6 instead of day 5 and we now have a beautiful little girl xxx
Have you tried adding probiotics? My friend had 8 (natural) chemicals and all she did was add probiotics to her supplements regime and now she is just about to have her little boy!
She just started taking Optibac women (purple label). However, I took those and also added a vaginal probiotic too in the lead up to my FET ( I've had one previous chemical but that was with a FET)
I have added a probiotic for last month or two before FET - I couldn't get the vaginal suppository probiotic so I had to just take optibac which is specifically for vaginal microbiome. I stopped taking probiotic after transfer though because I wasn't sure if you should take it afterwards
I think your clinic should be able to advise but I know I certainly kept taking the oral one and I am currently 20 weeks pregnant with my third FET. I stopped the vaginal ones after transfer though.
No, i haven't had the biopsy but I went to a reproductive immunologist who did loads of blood test investigations for recurrent pregnancy loss which included NK cells and everything came back normal except my vitamin D which was a bit low so now on vitamin D supplements. I also went to see Prof Quenby at Coventry (Tommys) who did a range of recurrent miscarriage bloods and all results came back normal. I also had a 3D scan of uterus and scan of my tubes and all looked fine. She suggested I may have a luteal phase defect so to take progesterone suppositories when trying naturally but my GP won't prescribe me them so I have to save some over from my ivf treatment. I've also been offered a genetic blood test (karotype test) which I will do in near future. I can't see me ever having a healthy pregnancy with my history, I am all out of hope 😢
Hi lovely, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I had three chemicals over the course of 4.5 years and it is so, so disheartening. My main recommendation would be to have your partner do a sperm DNA fragmentation test. It's a super simple test (partner just provides a semen sample) but high DNA frag is a common cause of recurrent miscarriage, especially early loss. My husband's standard semen analyses always came back normal - great count, normal motility, etc - so it took ages for someone to think to suggest that we should get the DNA frag test. But once we did it, we found out that he had high DNA frag and then once we found out the cause of that and got it fixed, we conceived naturally and now have a 1-year-old.
My other recommendations would be to 1) have karyotyping done for both you and your partner and 2) do the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel through Fertilysis (fertilysis.com/tests/fertil.... It includes tests for infections in the vaginal and uterine microbiomes and well as a whole range of immunology tests (NK cells but also several other things). I did it and although my results came back normal, it was so reassuring to know that I'd checked all the boxes as far as infections and immune function.
Let me know if I can answer any questions you have. It's a crap place to be but diligence and more testing are your best friends right now. Once you figure out the cause of the losses you can make a plan for how to move forward xx
Thanks for your reply. I honestly feel at breaking point. I don't know how much more I can take. I don't think I've ever struggled with anything as much as this, it's completely wrecked my life!! I am just so depressed and I'm all out of hope.
My partners sperm result was low morphology (2%) and low motility. We had really good fertilisation rates and had 6 blastocysts that made it - I was told that we can't have much of a sperm issue with those results or have I been advised wrong? My partner is currently taking impryl so I don't know if this supplement has improved his sperm parameters at all, will need to try get that tested again. I thought DNA fragmentation couldn't necessarily be fixed? Do you mind me asking what treatment he had after getting high fragmentation result?
We have been offered a karotype test so we will be going for that test later next year when we have used up our last 2 embyros, I don't think there is much that can be done if we are found to be genetically incompatible?
I have looked into fertyliss before, I may give that a go, what was your experience using fertyliss? How long did the results take to come back? And how much did it cost?
I've seen a reproductive immunologist and had loads of recurrent miscarriage bloods done including NK cells and all my results came back normal. Only thing that was low was vitamin D which I am now on supplements for. I also seen prof quenby at Coventry via tommys and they did miscarriage bloods and all my results came back fine. I've also had 3D scan of my uterus and scan on my tubes, all has come back fine.
Prof Quenby did think maybe we had a luteal phase defect due to my history of chemical pregnancies- she wrote me a letter advising I have progesterone suppositories in certain points of my cycle when trying naturally. She wasnt able to prescribe me and send me them though, without me going all the way to Coventry which isn't local! So I have saved some of my progesterone suppositories to try when trying naturally - they are higher than the dose recommended though but I can't get any progesterone support from GP or early pregnancy unit as they all say I need to get to the heartbeat scan to get progesterone support and I never get to that point.
I am on so many supplements, and I started taking a probiotic (optibac for vaginal micrbiome - i couldnt find a vaginal pessary probiotic) in the months before my latest FET to try and improve the uterine environment just in case that is an issue.
My clinic offered me the ALICE/EMMA/ERA test but I have heard from other professionals that they don't think it is worth it and not enough evidence that it helps at all (all have different opinions don't they). It's also extremely expensive and the clinic have said it can come back as inconclusive. If inconclusive, we would have to repeat the test and get a valid result before moving forward with treatment. We are already paying eye watering amounts of money for all of our ivf treatment, the cost is insane. But the emotional and mental impact for me is on a whole other level. IVF has given me scars I don't think will ever heal if this doesn't work for us (either naturally or ivf conception). Sorry for the essay!!! I just feel at a complete loss with it all 😭
Oh love, my heart goes out to you. I could you have written your post myself two years ago. It really is a form of torture to be going through something like this without any answers. I know the feeling of hopelessness and depression, but I just want to say that you are incredibly strong for having persevered for as long as you have.
Unfortunately, your clinic is wrong that getting a good number of blasts means that there isn't a sperm issue at play. There are multiple different ways that DNA can be damaged (single strand damage, double strand damage, location of the damage, etc) and the end result varies by couple. For some people the damaged sperm won't even be able to create an embryo, but for others it'll be able to create an embryo and implant, but then not progress past a couple of weeks. The only way to know for sure whether DNA frag is playing a part is to have the DNA frag test. In my husband's case, the DNA frag result led us down a route with a private urologist (Dr Jonathan Ramsay) who discovered that my husband had a varicocele that he was unaware of. Getting this fixed completely solved the DNA frag issue. There are also other potential causes of high DNA frag (infections in the urinary tract, hormonal imbalances) that are totally treatable once you know about them.
Do you have to wait to use your last two embryos before getting the karyotyping done? If the test shows any chromosomal abnormalities with either you or your partner, you can sometimes PGT test your embryos for the identified abnormality. So if it's an option, I would def do the test sooner rather than later since you still have embryos on ice. (FWIW, I don't think karyotyping will tell you anything about genetic compatibility between you and your partner. It only tests for genetic abnormalities that you have as individuals.)
I would highly recommend the fertilysis tests. The RPL panel costs €1600 last time I looked. Once I collected the samples and sent them off, I think it took about 3 weeks to get the results back. I haven't personally done the ALICE/EMMA/ERA tests so I can't speak knowledgeably about them, but I chose Fertilysis over them because Fertilysis tests for a much wider range of pathogens than the Alice/Emma, and it's also non-invasive rather than requiring a biopsy.
If I could summarise and give one piece of advice, it would be do as much testing as you can ASAP. I don't mean to underplay the cost aspect of it - I know it's insane amounts of money - but the time I spent trying different supplements, trying to gauge whether a test would be of value, etc etc was so much worse for my mental health than just biting the bullet and moving forward with all the various testing options. Just having an answer for why things weren't working (even before we'd managed to fix things), made things feel so much lighter.
Let me know if I can be of any help. I'm happy to share more in detail about our experience if you'd like xxx
Thanks so much for your detailed reply and offering to share your experience that would be really helpful. Did you get dna fragmentation test done at your clinic? My clinic charges crazy amounts, maybe i'll need to look somewhere cheaper. But seems that it is definitely worth getting tested. My partner has been on impryl supplement for a while and I wanted to see if things have improved, I'm assuming they could use the same sample?
I have heard good things about Dr Ramsey, was it a long wait to get an appointment with him? Was it really expensive?
It's so hard to think how our remaining 2 embryos may not be able to implant either if he does have high dna fragmentation, I've already gone through 4 FETs so the thought of going through another 2 with potentially no success is draining. Did you go through IVF too?
I don't know what tests to chose on the fertyliss website- I have already seen a reproductive immunologist and had a whole panel of tests. I could be interested in the microbiome and testing uterine environment. I can't see a list of tests on their website to see which ones I'd want to pay for? Or do you get a free consultation to discuss the different tests? Is organising sending off the sample difficult?
I thought about genetic testing embryos but I've been told its best to do this on fresh embryos that haven't already been frozen and its also not 100% accurate.
I'm 37 in February and my partner is 40 in May, I feel time is running out for us 😭
Every test I've had so far- uterus scans, scan to look at my tubes, recurrent miscarriage bloods including, hormone levels and immunology tests has come back normal, so it makes sense to look at the sperm more now. I don't know why clinics don't do this dna fragmentation test sooner as we would have wasted A LOT of precious time if this is an issue.
My husband had his first DNA frag test done at our clinic but he had follow-ups done through Fertility Solutions (fertilitysolutions.co.uk/dn... because they were a bit cheaper than our clinic and not too far away from us. Unfortunately, you can't use the same sample for a semen analysis and the DNA frag test. The sample for the DNA frag gets sent off to a specialised lab in Belfast.
When we saw Dr Ramsay in 2021/2022 it was about a 3 month wait to see him. Not sure what his wait is like these days. If your husband does end up having high DNA frag, I would contact his office straight away to get an appointment on the books. The cost, of course, wasn't cheap - I think we spent something like £1200 for the consultation, ultrasound to check for varicocele, and infection testing - but he was brilliant and spent so much time actually just TALKING to us about our case and what we'd done so far, which no one at our IVF clinic ever seemed interested in doing. I really rate him so highly.
Yes, we went through 3 full rounds of IVF, all with no success. We got a couple embryos from the first two cycles (none from the third), but they either didn't implant or ended in chemicals. I agree that putting yourself through another two FETs sounds draining, so I personally wouldn't do anything with those embryos until you know more.
I would recommend the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel through Fertilysis. Link here: fertilysis.com/tests/fertil.... It includes microbiome testing for the uterus and vagina, as well as some niche immunology tests like HLA-C-KIR mismatch (which tests for genetic compatibility between you and your partner). If you want to skip the immunology stuff, you could just do the Female Microbiome test - fertilysis.com/tests/female.... Sending off the sample is easy once you get your head around the process. You collect the sample at home and then just contact Fertilysis with the day you want your sample picked up and they'll organise for DHL to come to your house to collect the package. Easy peasy.
I wouldn't suggest doing genetic testing on already frozen embryos UNLESS a karyotyping test shows that you or your partner have a chromosomal abnormality that you're screening for. Otherwise, it's always best to do genetic testing on fresh embryos.
I agree that it's crazy that clinics don't do more comprehensive testing on men before putting women through very invasive, very expensive procedures. It seems terribly inefficient (not to mention more than a little sexist) but that's why forums like this are so valuable. I've learned SO much from other women on here.
Best of luck, lovely! I'll be here for any other questions xx
We had our DNA frag test done in Spain which is WAY cheaper than in the UK. I appreciate that it may not be relevant/helpful to everyone (especially if not planning a holiday there) but just wanted to mention it in case this is helpful to others. We paid €119 for my partner’s and had the results within a few weeks. We also had our karyotype tests done (€89 each). We used a website (have attached a screenshot) that finds all the clinics/labs in the country that offered the tests we wanted.
Thanks for your help, really appreciate it. I've been looking at the fertilysis website and it says to collect menstrual blood - did you have to use a menstrual cup? I've never used anything like that before... also says to do swabs and take a blood sample, not sure how I will get on collecting any of these samples?! Its hard to know whether to do immunology tests again as I did have most done already via a blood sample although I haven't had the KLA-C-KIR test... ahh it's all mind boggling! Xx
I was also a bit intimidated by the thought of having to collect the sample but it was actually quite easy. I just brought the collection tube with me each time I went to the toilet and was able to collect a few drops each time. You really don't need much in the end. The swab is super easy and takes 10 seconds to do on your own.
The blood sample can a bit trickier and I ended up paying for a private phlebotomy service to come to my house to draw the blood for my husband and I. Your GP might be willing to do the draw if you ask...mine said that they'd only do draws for tests that they ordered, but I imagine others might be more willing.
hello dear, maybe a silly/too obvious question but have you being checking that your TSH levels are below 2.5? also, are you taking any blood thinner injections? I am in my second failed FET transfer with no explanation as I was 35 on the first and 36 on the second and i had done all the tests so I feel you as i am so scared to go on with my third round....
I have had my TSH tested a few times and its always normal (within expected range). My clinic won't put me on blood thinners unless tests show I would benefit from them. So I am at a bit of a loss really with it all 😞 I've just had enough!
For me I had several chemicals. I can't really remember how many, but including FETs and natural I've probably had at least 5 or 6. Plus a natural miscarriage before treatment. What worked for me I believe is getting the laparoscopic surgery for endometriosis. Do you have any symptoms or period pain? I know it's a big step, I put it off for an extra year. I then had a euploid embryo fail / chemical (my 10th embryo I had transferred), but after I had the excision done I had success 8-9 weeks later with my first FET. I've heard so many success stories. It's one of the main reasons, yet hardly anyone gets recommended this unfortunately xx
Thanks for sharing your experience, that is really helpful. My clinic did mention a laparoscopy to me at my last follow up. I don't have period pains, although I have had on/off pelvic pain at random the last few months. Did your treatment plan get changed once you got diagnosed with endometrosis? Any different meds? Or anything that you think helped? I'm glad you had success in the end - recurrent chemicals is an awful thing to go through, I'm sorry you had to go through this too. Did you have success with one of your embyros you had waiting in the freezer or did you need to go through egg collection again? I'm really hoping one of my last 2 embryos will work if something else does come to light xx
Yes, I believe the laparoscopic surgery helped a lot. They excised it all so I believe it is totally gone now, so I didn't change my standard FET protocol. I did add more immune medications, but I didnt need them this time (I've since also had another success with my second FET since the surgery). You do need to find a specialist though, as surgical expertise is really important. I found mine through the Nancy's Nook fb group. I had success with my frozen embryos so I didn't need to do another egg collection thankfully. I would try to keep your frozen embryos safe until you have solved the root cause if you are able to. xx
Thanks for your reply. Did you have explorative laprascopy surgery to diagnose whether you had endometrosis and then it was found and excised? My clinic won't give me any immune drugs (immune protocol) as tests haven't shown I would benefit from it. Were you given immune meds before you knew you had endometrosis? Then when you were diagnosed, you had a standard protocol which worked after surgery? Can I ask where you went for you laprascopy and which doctor? How much did it cost and was there a long wait time? Sorry for all the questions! I'm glad it worked for you in the end, maybe there is some hope for me. I feel worried about me and my partners age and feel I'm running out of time (im going to be 37 in Feb and my partner 40 in May) x
Yes, they don't know if you have it until they open you up. They looked and removed it all in one surgery. There is an "international surgeon list" on the Nancy's Nook Facebook page. I'm not supposed to list names on here, but feel free to PM me. I have private medical insurance, but I've heard it can run 7-10k depending on where and what extent the surgery is. Some ladies go abroad to get the surgery done cheaper in Greece or other places. For me it was worth it since it seems to be a permanent fix for me xx
Hi, I had 2 back to back chemicals and prior to that 5 no implantation. On my 8th round my transfer was pushed back by a day to day 6 (it wasn’t planned. I was so exhausted by this point that I didn’t even question it) Therefore I had an extra day of progesterone, that transfer worked currently 13 weeks. I would defo do the ERA Alice Emma test in the future, maybe something worth speaking to your consultant about? Good luck x
I've had chemical pregnancies through natural conception too, so not sure if it is that? Some doctors don't rate the ERA ALICE EMMA test either, it's so difficult to know what to do. We are paying thousands privately as it is. Did you have this EMMA/ALICE ERA test? Or did your clinic just push your transfer day back one day without testing first? X
Sorry for all your are going through and have been through 🩷I lost my baby at 24 weeks(chromosome) followed by 3 chemical pregnancies. I have had a load of tests done then I finally got testing of the microbiome with Fertilysis, only potential answer I have ever got for my 3 early losses. Took me 3 times but after a Few more rounds of antibiotics and probiotics I'm finally all clear. I have 5 pgta tested embryos waiting for me. Transfer in January. Have you looked into Fertilysis? Are you on any supplements? After my first loss I followed is starts with the egg and took all supplements recommended and ended up with good grade embryos. I noticed above you said it's wrecked your life 💔 since losing my baby boy and these losses I have never felt so depressed in my life, everything makes me sad and angry. I can't bear to be in the same area with babies and even families as I fear this will never be me, I can never imagine having a baby and to be honest I don't want to be here if I can't! The only bit of hope I'm clinging onto Is that my causes for my losses are due to the bad bacteria and lack of good bacteria I had. I think if you haven't had this test done you really should 🌈 xxx
I'm so sorry for your loss, that is heartbreaking. Sending so much love and hugs your way. I don't know how much more I can take to be honest. I'll keep everything crossed for you, Best of luck with your future embryo transfers. Thanks for sharing your experience xx
So sorry I didn't see your reply! Thank you 🌈💙 I completely know how you are feeling, nothing feels important other than getting pregnant and having the baby. I'm literally living for this moment so my life can be off pause. Have you tried probiotics btw , Vagibiom completely replenished my good bacteria.worth trying? If you ever want to talk I'm around 🩷 xxx
Have you been offered PGTA testing on embryos? I had 8 embryos and only 2 were good. After my first miscarriage on an 4AA embryo, I was offered pgta testing. Turns out probably the 5th likely to get transferred would have been one that would have been a euploid embryo, because the 4 before this one ‘appeared’ to be better quality. By having the pgta test I was able to slip 4 transfers that would more likely have ended in miscarriage. I hope this helps. Best wishes.
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Anyone else had loads of chemical pregnancies?? 
Wide awake waiting for bleeding - chemical pregnancy 
Panicking after bfp about ‘chemical pregnancies’ 
Another possible chemical :(
