Is my body killing my embryos?

[rainbowbaby8320]

Hi

I am wondering if anyone else has been in my position and may know what might be wrong...i'm so sad and just want to hear from other women who have had simliar experiences.

I'm 41... conceived a son through IVF in 2019 (an angel - my mum died of leukaemia in the middle of that cycle - I can't believe he was ok).

From that cycle, I produced three more good quality blastocysts (grade B). These were put in the freezer.

Since last year, I have tried to give my son a sibling... I first tried the three frozen blastocysts. This was the outcome:

FET 1 - silent miscarriage at about 6 weeks. D&C to resolve.

FET 2 - not pregnant

FET 3 - not pregnant.

Just recently I did another fresh cycle. I ended up with two B grade blastocysts again and one came back as testing ok for PGT-A. I changed my whole diet, took supplements etc to get this embryo.

I've just done an FET on this little frostie and i'm not pregnant! OTD is tomorrow. Been testing negative since day 7 passed the 5dt. Today is day 9. I had a meltdown at the consultant yesterday on the phone. She told me off for testing early, but mentioned briefly that I may have an auto immune problem or something and we can do some tests... I just wish they checked this before I created (and basically killed) my PGTA tested embryo?

I'm conscious too that I have not been pregnant since my miscarriage and I did ask her about scar tissue in my womb or something from my D&C. The consultant said she could see my womb on the scan and it looked fine? (I'm not entirely comfortable with her answer on this ? Surely they do historoscopies for a reason?)

It may be that she is right about some sort of auto immune disease, however?

I'm just so devastated - i've been through so much to get to a point where I have got a PGTA tested embryo at 41. I have completely changed my diet. The FETs have cost me a fortune too and i'm so worn down with it. Also, now that I know this one was definitely euploid, it makes me wonder about the other FETs... is my body killing them all? This is just too much to take in.

Has anyone else had a failed PGTA embryo? what was the reason?

Did anyone else have auto immune issues? I don't know much about it so i'm just interested to know anyone else's story if it's similar to mine...

I don't want to give up hope but i'm exhausted now from the failed cycles and i'm so sad about the idea that this is taking energy away from my son (and money which could be spent on other things like taking him on lovely holidays)... but I always wanted more than one child - I used to want four! I was born in a big family and I liked having a few siblings. I feel sad for my son that he has no daddy and now no siblings either...it was never the plan!

On the other hand - I cannot even fathom the pain that some people on this forum must have gone through when they have not managed to have one baby yet - it must be unbearable and my heart goes out to those people

[Simmokt]

I'm so sorry that you're having a hard time. We had two euploid embryos from two cycles. First transfer failed and I then had antibiotics (had a borderline uterine flora test), prednisolone, levothyroxine and an intralipid treatment for the second and am now 13 weeks pregnant. Our consultant said sometimes it's just luck, but it seems like the extras did help for me. I'm 40.

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Simmokt]

Thank you for replying! I have to say, I find reading other people's comments comforting! even when i'm just looking up symptoms on my 2ww... i'm really glad for you that you got your pregnancy! Are those meds/treatments you mentioned for the second round to do with auto immune disorders? How did they decide to give you those bits? did they do bloods?

Think I've just seen a post from you about your scan - good luck with that x i'm sure it will be fine xx

[Simmokt in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

The prednisolone and intralipids are for inflammation - I didn't have a specific autoimmune diagnosis, but I did have my NK cell levels tested and they were borderline for a problem, which is why I went on those. Really worth making sure your TSH level is under 2.5 as well if your clinic will test thyroid levels.

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Simmokt]

hello!

My consultant has agreed to give me the meds - intralipids etc… I was just wondering if I should be worried about getting really sick with a lower strength immune system?

My son is in nursery and he is bringing all sorts home!

Thanks for your help!

[Simmokt in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

My consultant was very keen on me having an up to date Covid jab and flu jab, but otherwise, my understanding is that it might just make you a bit more poorly than you would be otherwise or more likely to be susceptible. I don't have other kids, but I was well all the time I took the prednisolone, even when my husband had a couple of stinking colds. I wore a mask on public transport etc. My friend who is a doctor said it's not significantly different from the normal immune suppression that you have in pregnancy anyway. I'm not an expert though! My main advice in prednisolone would be take it as early in the morning as you can and with food (I just took it with a dry cracker) - it can really stop you sleeping. Good luck!

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Simmokt]

ah ok thanks… that is reassuring although I get all sicknesses from my son since he started nursery… I didn’t used to get sick before that… (but maybe this is why! Because I have auto immune disease!).

Thanks very much for your help…

[rainbowbaby8320]

ah I see - thanks.. I was reading about NK cells just yesterday. Didn't know anything about them before! It seems like that could be possible because of the symptoms I get - it's like the same pattern every time... baby implants and then body rejects? I can feel the implantation and on this cycle I had horrendous morning sickness after the implantation cramps - like the HCG was starting to kick in... then my body stepped in and blocked it? It's so sad to think my body might have sabbotaged it

[lianm8 in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

I’m so sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. This really is a hard journey and I hope you have lots of support around you.

I have high NK cells. I had my boobs done years ago before trying for children and my body pushed out all the stitching- didn’t think much of it. After miscarriages and two failed transfers I was tested for nk cells and mine came back high! So the boobs made sense after that, my body likes to reject things.

For my next 3 transfers after i had treatment for high nk cells and this resulted in my little girls who are now 6 and 4 and I’m currently 14 weeks pregnant with my third and last embryo. I really believe in high nk cells (there will be some that don’t) and without treatment for this I believe it wouldn’t have worked out with any of my embryos.

Iwas given prednisalone, Lubion 2x, 2x Cyclogest, Clexane (although this was stopped early with this and my last pregnancy due to bleeding) and intralipids. Maybe it’s something you can have a chat with your consultant about xx

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to lianm8]

Omg!! I’ve had my boobs done too- years ago!

I wonder if it’s that but that’s so lovely to know you ended up with more children! I’m so happy for you! I will ask my consultant to check my NK cells…

How old are you if you don’t mind? I’m scared I’m 41 and may never get another pgta tested embryo (and terrified of more miscarriages so I made that a prerequisite) x

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to lianm8]

hi lianm8… just been googling… the way I looked at the boob job thing was that maybe the boob job triggered the high NK cells?! And I think I’ve found confirmation that I was right…

Images are hidden by default on this community. Learn more

Show imageRemember my choice on this device

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

I’m a bit confused though… been reading more and it says implants reduce NK cells … but they do cause immunological disorders…

[lianm8 in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

so my body pushed out the stitches after my boob job! Which I now think is down to NK cells!! I didn’t know of it at the time but when I got diagnosed it made sense. I do hear bad things about boob jobs tho and illnesses so it did worry me but I’m sure they aren’t related. I just think my body pushing the stitching out was because of the NK cells.

I’m nearly 35. Please don’t worry about your age etc- if you have produced good embryos before there is no reason you won’t now! It’s such a hard journey!!! Xx

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to lianm8]

oh ok! Maybe that’s right then x

Been reading a bit more… the silicone ones are linked to still births but I bet there is no research on ‘not pregnant’ results in people TTC because they didn’t think to check this…I’m suspicious now esp with people complaining about breast implant illness etc

[lianm8 in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

I would ask your consultant if they would consider giving you prednisalone Clexane and intralipids with your next transfer rather than doing the actual test it’s worth a shot xxx

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to lianm8]

Thanks! I’m going to! Seems that did the trick for a lot of women. I just checked and my original consultant is not available until end of May 🙄

I just hope the alternative one will take the whole history into account… it’s so annoying being passed between different people at this clinic - I wish I didn’t change but I moved house and was travelling miles to my old one for a while!

[lianm8 in reply to rainbowbaby8320]

I’m sure they will! Just say you’ve done a lot of research and you believe this to be the problem. I can’t remember how much the actual NK cell test was! Prednisalone and Clexane weren’t too dear but I paid £350 for each intralipid and had to have three! Just seems like such an endless pit of money too. I’m always here if you need to chat or any advice xxx

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to lianm8]

thank you! Well my original consultant was the one to mention auto immune issues when I was having my meltdown at 9dpt so hoping they are all on the same page in there…

Thank you for the support! I honestly was extremely close to giving up before I read everyone’s replies.

Just booked a trip to Disneyland for my son too. It makes me feel less guilty and it’s something to look forward to! The ivf is a bottomless money pit for me at the moment x

[Bozo_the_pumpkin]

I asked my doctor for prednisone in case of auto immune. Many doctors give prednisone automatically as part of the cycle.

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Bozo_the_pumpkin]

really! That’s interesting! When I signed up to this clinic I asked the consultant if my three failed good quality blasts were normal (and bear in mind those were from my 37 year old eggs). She said yes! I’m feeling a bit angry now… I might never get another chance and that baby from my current cycle would likely have been born! 😕

[Bozo_the_pumpkin]

I had 5 previous transfers with good quality embryos with no positives… there are so many different things that can contribute and it is so difficult to know which one did the trick. I was on prednisone for my previous FET as well and that one was a BFN. I also did an ERA, which showed that my implantation window was 1 day later, so my FET was pushed to day 6 rather than day 5. At the same time they used the biopsy of the endometrium to check for infections which I was told can’t be seen in a scan.

Good luck.. it can happen at any time so don’t lose faith. Crossing fingers for you.

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Bozo_the_pumpkin]

thanks! That has made me feel more positive about it! You never know what’s causing it do you! I don’t even know if it’s an auto immune thing for me x

[Olive12345]

Hi, I’m 100% sure this is happening to me. I have diagnosed autoimmune diseases (Mixed connective tissue disease) but for some reason I still can’t get them to give me steroids. I have a five year old and three missed miscarriages years apart. I do get symptoms though around the time the embryos are killed and around ovulation. I get feverish, itchy rashes, malar rash, find it hard to breathe and dizzyness. The symptoms disappear either when I’ve got my period or in line with when the embryo stops. Not sure if that’s helpful?

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Olive12345]

omg this is me too- I get hives now and itching when the embryo is trying to grow? It’s like the body is treating it like a poison or something!? And I can feel when it’s taking off and then when it gets blocked all symptoms die off!

Why won’t they give you steroids? Maybe you should change clinic?

[Millbanks]

Hey lovely,

So sorry to read your history - it's so tough isn't it.

We had success on our 6th transfer after using steroids and intralipids. Coincidentally I saw a postcast about autoimmune issues in IVF and they mentioned that if you have a family history of them then it could be a marker that you may have elevated NK cells. I don't have an autoimmune disease but both my parents had psoriasis, so I asked my consultant and we did the Chicago blood tests. My NK cells were extremely elevated.

My previous 5 transfers hadn't even implanted and we had 8 embryos in storage which we then had them PGT-A tested before the 6th transfer. Out of 8, 6 came back normal so we were pretty sure that it wasn't a chromosomal issue that meant we weren't getting pregnant.

Our 6th transfer was with a PGT-A normal embryo and steroids/intralipids and that was the key.

Also, I have heard a lot of people struggle to conceive a 2nd time as your body can increase it's immune response after a first pregnancy - so this could very well be the reason.

xx

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Millbanks]

wow thanks! Looks like my story is similar to a few others on here… I’m definitely going to ask about those drugs now! Thank you!

I’m glad it worked for you in the end 💜

[Chantysal]

so sorry to hear qbout ur journey its so hard. I also had negative pgta tested embryo transfers and my doctor said it could be also that the immune system kills the embryos even though she didnt test me for it so on my last cycle she gave mw prednisone and also i took lovinox (blood thinner) just to be on the safe side and it lead to our positive cycle

[rainbowbaby8320 in reply to Chantysal]

oh wow! That’s amazing! I’m so glad it worked for you in the end and it’s given me hope!

I feel bad for the babies too - you have that guilt don’t you? Obviously I didn’t know until now - I thought it was egg quality before 😢