5 eggs retrieved, 3 fertilised, 2 blastocysts (4BB and 4BA). Both sent for PGTA testing, a decision made following a second trimester TFMR loss due to chromosomal problems.
Results are in - both embryos have tested aneuploid (abnormal) as both have a missing chromosome. I'm not crying. I'm just numb.
We have been "banking" all year and within that whole period of time we have one precious euploid (normal) embryo. We also have an untested embryo which was frozen before our loss. The main issue is I don't get many eggs due to low reserve, of our 4 banking cycles one was cancelled and one got nothing to test. So of 4 blastocysts tested, across the 2 remaining cycles, one is normal.
I've kept daring to hope that it'll be our time next time but each time I'm disappointed. I guess I should probably use what I have frozen and then look towards a donor.
Any words of wisdom from anyone that can relate? Or any practical suggestions on what to do next? Xx
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Skittles11
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OMG, Skittles I'm so sorry! I've received bad PGT-A results before where I thought it was a completely wasted cycle. It's just soul-destroying, especially when you're doing everything in your power in the hope that you'll eventually get lucky. Even though my situation is different to yours, I can definitely relate to the relentless stream of disappointments. It's beyond unfair!
I don't really have any words of wisdom, other than to reflect, let yourself grieve this and then when you're ready consider your options. It seems to me that it may be worth transferring your normal blast and then considering where to go from there on out, but as ever these are all very personal decisions. As a long-term option I am also considering donor eggs, if what we have doesn't work, but that is no light and easy option either. However, I'm so sick and tired of this process and my own biology failing me that I think I'd be ready to consider that option should things continue to be difficult.
Sending you love, strength and big hug. I'm sorry you've had bad news today! Xx
Hi Mudra, absolutely you hit the nail on the head - it is soul destroying. And each time I have renewed hope it's like I scold myself afterwards for being so ridiculous in thinking things could be different. It's really hard to make that decision as to when enough is enough.
Likewise I am sick and tired of this process, I just feel stuck and I know it sounds silly but I'm so frightened of using my normal embryo in case it doesn't work... xx
It's so true, it can make you feel like an fool for even having hope. It is really hard to know when to make the decision of enough is enough.
Feeling stuck is one the worst place to be in my opinion. I can totally relate to the fear of using your normal embryo in case it doesn't work. There are so many stumbing blocks and tough decisions on this hellish road.
I feel gutted for you that you didn't get the good news you so desperately deserve! Xx
I feel the same way. The thought of using my 1 euploid and it not working is scary. I guess all we can do is get ourselves in the best frame of mind, best physical condition and reduce stress to the point where you can’t do anything more. I hate this saying but it’s so true- whatever will be, will be. As long as you know you’ve done everything you can. Xxx
hey. I’ve not been banking, just doing cycles and transferring or freezing. I had 6 tested, 3 an euploid, 1 euploid and 2 mosaic. The genetic counsellor said the euploid has a 52%, and the mosaics 42% chance of resulting in a pregnancy so not amazing chances but I’ll take it! xxx
So sorry for what you are going through. I don’t have anything to share but couldn’t just scroll since I’ve been following your journey as a new bee. All I know is things will eventually fall into place although it might not seem that way at this stage. Sending you love & light. You will get to a point where you will be able to make the right decision.
Sorry to hear that. 4 blastocysts tested and got 1 euploid (normal) embryo is not a bad result. People can use their bodies to try for the untested embryos but it may results lots of miscarries and suffer from the depression. The PGTA test helps you to avoid miscarriages and give you more information about the embryo's qualities.
In my opinion, you still have a good chance to success with that euploid embryo. Only need one Mr. embryo to have a live birth healthy baby. I wish you best of luck!
Hi Rebecca. I'm sorry you have previously faced this too. I had a dream two nights ago that this was the outcome and I thought oh well, it's just a dream and just hoped so much for a different result. Massively disappointed. It's the stress of what to do next, I just don't know xx
It is indeed so triggering and I was really hoping for some better news especially at this time of year. I can't believe it's been a year. Hope you are doing okay lovely. Thank you for the support xx
I am so sorry this has happened & for all your going through , it is no wonder you feel numb after everything you have faced it is so difficult having bad news after bad news on top of grief & so on.
Whatever you decide to do next I wish you all the best & sending you strength xx
The layer upon layer of grief, trauma and sadness definitely contributes to the numb feelings. I used to get so visibly upset when I got bad news and now I can't even cry. I think maybe when you go through something so traumatic maybe nothing can compare to that. I just can't get over the amount of real heartbreak that some of us have to go through to even have a chance of success. Hoping you're doing well xx
you have described this so well & it is exactly how I felt with my failed fet in June ,upset at first but then numb, it is very true after suffering such trauma with child loss everything else doesn’t come close to this heartbreak!
It almost feels like we expect the worst too. Going through so much takes everything & it is hard to keep battling through. But I do hope you have time to process & decide what’s next xx
Thank you Gem. I think I am terrified of using the euploid embryo as it feels like my last chance. That's not to say there's a reason it wouldn't work, it's probably fear more than rational thinking. Xx
I understand and it would probably feel like a lot of pressure but a chance might be all it needs xxx
Oh Skittles I can understand why you are so numb.. its just one thing after another isn't it.
Maybe transferring your embryo would give you more positivity again as you would feel like you are actually doing something positive? You must be exhausted after all the banking. A change is as good as a rest. Hopefully that would be your rainbow baby, but worst case if it isn't it at least gives you a break from the treadmill of EC and testing and gives you some time to think about next steps and donor? Its so hard when you are on that constant hamster wheel.
I do understand your hesitancy of using that embryo though.. its not the end though, just the last stage of this chapter
Thanks Daisy. I know after everything you've been though you can probably relate to those numbing feelings. It's like Groundhog Day just repeating the same day and the same disappointing outcome over and over again in varied forms. It's really hard to know when to change direction and I've had this before where I just cannot make a decision on what to do. And that increases the stress. And you just go round and round like that... xx
I’m really sorry to hear about the results. I know its a classic saying but ‘it only takes one!’ And seems you’ve got a real good one ready to rock and roll. Hopefully now you’ve got your embryo which is fully tested then this will give you a really good chance of success. I know its not what you were hoping, this journey certainly is not straight forward and gruelling, but the end result will all be worth it. I’m hopeful for you and your future family. Sending you lots of luck and positivity xx
Hi MLove. Thank you for the motivating message. I'm trying to cling on to the hope and I know we are lucky to have a frozen euploid; I guess I'm feeling deflated that it's been 10 months trying and I've been through 3 cycles since the euploid to gain nothing except emotional pain. I know you feel that for different reasons. Xx
I am sorry for what you re going through. it is a continuous struggle xx i do hope you find the strength through this xxx I am here for you if you need to talk. Will be in my thoughts xx
Thank you for your support, it does seem like a continuous uphill struggle and sometimes I don't know if I have the strength to keep pushing through with so many obstacles. Appreciate your thoughts and wishes xx
Oh no. I'm so sorry, Skittles. I'm not surprised you're feeling numb. You've been through so much. It's horrendous and just unfair.
My sister is in the same position: banking all year and just the one euploid embryo. She has decided to continue trying to bank for now, but I wonder if her decision is partly forced as her partner won't consider donor eggs.
I can totally understand why it's v. scary to go ahead and transfer your one euploid embryo, but could it be good for you to do something a bit more positive? A transfer carries a lot of hope and excitement that maybe it's hard to feel on yet another egg collection.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you are looking after yourself and have some good support around. I will be thinking of you too xxx
I remember you posting not long ago about your sister and the troubles she's having with her embryos not passing the pgta testing. It's incredibly difficult when you get to the stage of testing and then the embryos come back with markers on. We all want something to transfer don't we. How many rounds of banking has your sister attempted so far? Has she commited to just one more round of banking or several rounds back to back? Thank you as always for your lovely message and support xx
So far this year she's done 3 fresh rounds plus her frozen eggs from when she was 35 were also used and tested. She's currently in the middle of her 4th round this year and I believe has 2 more planned for early next year. Unfortunately, she does have the problem of either getting lots of embryos or 0 embryos on any given round; in the first 2 fresh rounds, she got nothing but in the 3rd, she got 4 all BB-grade embryos! As with you, I think the inconsistency is making it hard to make decisions about how long to go on.
She has applied for a 6-month sabbatical from work for her rounds next year, and that's helped her feel much more relaxed. I think she's planning a few nice holidays in between cycles. I'm not sure if a break from work would be an option for you if you decide to continue batching. It's just so mentally and physically all-consuming doing multiple egg collections a year that it must be really tough if you're working too. xx
hi Skittles11 im sorry to hear about your results. I’ve banked and transferred without testing and none worked. I have one untested blast left and I’m doing a last (5th cycle now) and will test if I get anything. I had a natural miscarriage last Christmas. I feel traumatized too. Plus a close friend just told me she’s 12 weeks preggers today. It’s really really cruel the whole infertility thing. All I can say is at least you have one that might work… it might just be the one and I really hope it is. Wishing you strength and luck x
Hi Katie, thank you for your message. I'm sorry to learn you've gone through a traumatic loss as well. It's heart wrenching. It's hard when you're battling infertility and having treatment to then find out those close to you are expecting. Coping with the complex and mixed emotions is tough. I hope your 5th cycle gives you some good news and thank you for the encouragement and wishes xx
so sorry for your news. I know it’s hard but it’s best to know in advance so you don’t cause more physical and emotional pain to yourself. What about continuing to take out as many egg as as you can naturally or medicated (whatever your doctor advises) and keep testing till you have 2 or 3 optimal embryos? ❤️
Thank you Corchi. I keep telling myself this, that it was best to know, but I can't get rid of the deep sadness I feel as a result. I think its as a result of everything, not just this in isolation. Continuing to have egg collections to get 2 or 3 tested embryos was my intention but I'm just not sure now as the last 3 have gone nowhere and I feel I've lost 10 months as a result. It's so tough making the decisions as another part of me thinks I had blasts this time and what's to say I won't get euploid ones. It's just impossible to know and I guess there has to be a cut off somewhere. I just am finding it hard defining where that cut off is for me xx
Try not to worry about having to use a donor if it comes to that. If I had known how much I would love my donor baby I would not have spent a second worrying about it. Now I feel silly for thinking DNA is so important. I love her as much as my genetic children. She has brought so much joy into our lives. Best wishes to you xx 💕
Thank you for sharing this, it was lovely to read. I genuinally do think having the option to use a donor is amazing and it's something I will explore more if things dont pan out (I have already looked at some bits). It's knowing when to take that leap. Xx
Hey, thank you for this I hope you're right as I feel so torn right now. I have my debrief this week so I will be interested to hear the consultant's thoughts and proposed plan xx
What I would say is that I tested age 36 after multiple miscarriages and didn’t get any normals and transferred 2 untested on the next transfer and had healthy twins
So don’t write off your untested one.
It’s a very difficult and personal decision but having gone through PGTA I agreed with my clinic that emotionally and physically I could go through another loss if it meant giving an embryo a chance which might otherwise have been discarded. But it’s a very personal decision x
This is interesting. When you made the decision to switch to not testing do you think you had lost faith in PGT-A testing? I don't think we will be able to test our untested embryo but I must admit I will be anxious about using it - particularly because its from the same batch of eggs as my girl who I mentioned above and whom we lost due to chromosomal problems (TFMR). But two different embryologists, one of whom I very much trust, have recommended not to thaw and test that embryo because of the fragility of the process as it would then involve a second freeze and a second thaw. They also both independently said it makes no difference its from the same batch of eggs. But that doesn't stop me from worrying Xx
I think I’d always been sceptical and actually my clinic didn’t really support it but it felt like to me the last test we hadn’t done to try and explain my miscarriages.
But during that time I joined lots of groups especially of mosaic embryos and lots of women were having healthy babies - I was in fact allowed to transfer a mosaic -11 but it was a BFN but afterwards I reflected that if I was willing to transfer anyway if I didn’t get any nornals what was the point in testing?
First of all, here is a massive hug to you! I am so sorry to read your news. This process is so hard and life can be so cruel. Having to go through PGT-A testing in addition to the rollercoaster of IVF and infertility is just excruciating. My story is different from yours but after 5 miscarriages (4 early ones and a late loss in the second trimester), we decided we would only transfer PGT-A tested embryos, as I couldn't hope with the heartbreak of another loss.
We had 2 PGT-A tested embryos (and not that as good quality as other embryos before) and we made the decision that if they didn't work, we would go for donor eggs, as I couldn't cope with any more IVF myself. I am nearly 39 and I have severe endometriosis, so physically and psychologically it was too much for me. I think what made me feel a bit 'better' was the fact that for us, that was the limit and if those two didn't work, we had come to terms we would go for egg donors. Every person is different, but for me the desire of being a mum of a living child was much greater than the fact the baby may not be biologically related to me. I read a lot about epigenetics and my husband and I agreed, that was the plan. One of those PGT-A embryos is now my miracle rainbow 7 month son. Before that transfer we did lots of other tests to try and see if we could give the embryo the best chance to implant. There is no right or wrong and every person is different but this is how we felt and what we did.
I am thinking of you and sending you all my love. Life can be so cruel and you have gone through so much. I pray you get to hold your rainbow baby soon. Lots of love xxxxxx
You're so right how you describe this being excruciating, that's exactly how I feel.In many ways I think the way you did it was very sensible in that you decided you would transfer the euploids and then move to donor if you weren't successful. So you had a good plan.
My plan was to get 2 euploids and then transfer them and then move to donor if no success. I think the problem I'm having is that it looks like I'll have to review that plan unless I want to keep trying to bank. But with this history and 10 months of banking a total of nothing I don't know if it remains possible or if chances of getting another euploid are just too low.
You spoke about doing lots of tests to give your embryos the best chance. Can I ask what tests you did? I think I will ask this as a separate question for all the well versed ladies on here too.
Sending hugs back and I'm so pleased it worked out for you in the end. I hope I can follow in your footsteps xx
Yes, we did lots of tests, as we wanted to give our last embryos the best possible chance. We did ERA, EMMA and ALICE and I would really recommend that. My EMMA and ALICE results came back really abnormal so I had to take antibiotics followed by probiotics and then repeat the same tests with another biopsy to confirm everything was OK.
I also had autoimmune testing and was prescribed hydroxychloroquine and steroids since before the transfer.
I suffered from severe endo so I had a laparoscopy with excision for endometriosis surgery before my last transfer too.
Every time we had a 'setback'/'failure', we tried something different and did some different tests (i.e.: karyotyping, thrombophilia screening, hysteroscopy, etc.).
I am so sorry that you are in such a difficult position and the decision on whether to keep trying to bank more embryos is a very personal one. I feel your pain -it is emotionally draining and after the devastating loss of your baby, it is even harder. Life is so unfair and can be cruel sometimes. One of the things I found the hardest in my journey was the uncertainty of it all... I truly admire you for your determination to keep going -you are incredibly brave and amazing! I am here if you need to chat and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do xxxx
I am so so sorry to hear this. Such terrible news after all you went through to get to this point. The only saving grace in all of this is that at least you didn't put these two embryos back in a fresh transfer and end up having a miscarriage or having to have a TMFR. You have spared yourself that by doing this testing. It must be so hard to know what to do next. I'm not sure how it works with frozen embryos and PGTA testing. Can your untested embryo be unfrozen and tested? If so, I think I would do that next. If not, what have the doctors said the liklihood is of the chromosomal issue that resulted in your TMFR recurring? Was it one of these things that they class as just bad luck which increases with age or was it something that certain people are prone to due to genetic issues? More to the point, did your baby have a missing chromosome just like the two you have just tested? If it is the latter, then I guess the risk of transferring it is likely to be higher than if it is just a random occurrence. In that situation, I would then probably transfer the one tested euploid embryo and hope and pray for success. If it gets to the point of using your last remaining untested embryo or doing another cycle or switching to donor eggs, I think only you will know and only at that time whether you are able to face the risk of transferring an untested embryo because it may be the last shot with your own eggs or whether you would rather go down the donor route. I am so sorry that this is all so tough. Let us know what happens. I am really rooting for you here xx
Thanks for getting in touch Koala. That's what I am trying to tell myself that I have avoided the horrors of miscarriage or TFMR due to another chromosomal problem. You asked some really thoughtful questions in your response.
The embryologists at my clinic have strongly recommended I don't test the untested embryo due to the risks presented to the embryo - thawing, testing, re freezing and then thawing again. I do trust the embryologists at my clinic and one in particular who gave me this advice.
The issue affecting my biospied embryos was different to the issue affecting my TFMR girl. She had an additional chromosome number 18 - Edwards Syndrome. The embryos had missing chromosomes 16 and 13 I think.
I have had karyotype testing along with my husband as I wanted to know whether I had a balanced translocation that may have led to the T18 Edwards Syndrome. Both me and my husband have no issues. We have a slightly higher risk of about 1% more likely to have a chromosomal issue recur than the general population. So not very much higher but still there.
I am still unsure of what to do next, it's a battle to make decisions when you're feeling so fed up isn't it. Sending hugs and hope through to you xx
Thank you. Hoping and praying your head clears a bit to help you make the best decision for you. If in doubt, get a second opinion from a different consultant to help you form your view. All the best. Thinking of you Xx
So sorry it wasn't better news! It's so draining going through so many cycles, I think you're doing an amazing job keeping strong! I wish I had some wisdom or advice that would be helpful to you. It's just sometimes really disheartening doing this process, it doesn't seem fair. I'm sending lots of love and hope for the 2 you do have frozen. Everyone always says it does only take 1, so I'm really hoping that's the case for you! 🤞🏻🙏🏻💗 xx
Thank you, that really means a lot. It really is draining and it's hard to find the words to express as all of the emotions are so complex. I'm grateful to have ladies on here that are so supportive and considerate that help to make a terrible day feel that little bit better x
I'm not able to offer any experience, but simply wishing you the very best outcome whatever you decide to do. What strength and resilience you have shown in all that time. Take good care xx
I am so sorry. Having been on a very long road myself, I know how isolating and painful it is. Jumping off a cliff, breaking all your bones and doing it again, and again, and again. You are brave, like all in this community. Give yourself huge credit for that.
The only thing that kept me going was a strategy. Every case is different; but having a timeline and a plan a, b, c and d and knowing I was going to bring home a baby whatever it took, was the only thing that kept me sane. Even before I transferred my embryo, I had donor sperm in the bank ready to go for round 6. My plan looked like this (as an example):
1) One last egg collection (December)
2) transfer non tested embryo (february)
3) transfer pgs embryo (April)
4) final round with surrogate (June)
5) donor eggs (august)
So basically I had a plan and had already accepted none of it might work so the pressure was off - I knew at the end I would have my baby, in whatever form that took.
So sorry to read this and I totally understand your reluctance to transfer that last embie as it means the possibility of starting again. I have the same fears myself. I haven't experienced what you have, nowhere near it so am really in no position to offer my advice but I really do wish you strength in your decision and the best of luck.
Trust your gut, there really is no right or wrong answer. There is just moving forward with fingers crossed and heart open. Xx
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