Expansion number declined after thaw-any stories out there that might help?

[Vivkim]

We had our first FET yesterday. The first embryo they attempted to defrost didn’t survive (4AB) . We were told of this when we were just about to head into transfer so didn’t dwell on it. Today, I’m so upset as this was our best graded embryo currently frozen.

The second one thawed (5BB) successfully. Inner and outer cell mass grade remained the same (BB), I was told that 90% of cells survived the thaw BUT the expansion number fell to 2!! So we had a 2BB transferred. It was explained that the embryo expanded back to 50% which was their threshold for transfer..

Is anyone able to give me realistic hope for success?

I’ve taken a ‘rest’ day today but spent all morning and afternoon in tears.

lots of love to you all 💜

[Hidden]

Sorry to hear things did not go as planned Sending good luck wishes Hope you get some positive replies to your post

Take care

Janet

[Vivkim in reply to Hidden]

Thank you Janet.

Trying not to get fixated on grading or the fact that we’ve lost our best chance.

Not the best start to the TWW 😞

[Firsttimettc]

I've also had a 2bb transferred on Tuesday the other one I have frozen is a 3bc so it was the best one out of the 2 good luck x

[Vivkim in reply to Firsttimettc]

Hello 👋

Good luck to you too! Fingers crossed they’re ‘small but mighty’ haha. Keep me update about how you 2WW goes 💜

[Firsttimettc]

I've been calm the last couple of days this evening I've been getting impatient lol isnt this 2ww is awful

[Vivkim]

I’ve been the opposite….after the disappointment of thaw, yesterday was tough. Today I’m feeling better. It is what it is now 🤷🏼‍♀️ I have zero symptoms but never done a frozen transfer before so it might be normal 🤷🏼‍♀️

Wishing you all the best. Keep in touch 💜

[Firsttimettc]

You to ❤ this is my first frozen I've had a fresh one in November but failed so praying this one sticks good luck to both of us 🍀

[Firsttimettc]

Hi just thought I'd update you sadly its a bfn today 10dp I think I'm definitely out praying it goes well for you ❤️

[Vivkim in reply to Firsttimettc]

Hi lovely. I’m so sorry to hear. I hope you’re taking it easy, giving yourself time to process. I’m feeling like it hasn’t worked too. Symptoms stopped on day 8 after transfer. 5 more days until OTD.

Sending you lots of love 💜

[Firsttimettc in reply to Vivkim]

Think positive i am still going to teat every day til Tuesday but think I'm out 2nd transfer to fail thinking of taking a break from all of this and planning a holiday in the summer for something to look forward to we only have one 3bc but don't feel to hopeful for that one

[Vivkim in reply to Firsttimettc]

I understand you feeling the need to have something lovely to look forward to. Planning things whilst organising treatment plans is almost impossible. Taking a break might be what you need, but in a few weeks time, you may find your strength again. I want to go again straight after (even considering using the withdrawal bleed). After that, we’ll take a break too.

Whatever you decide, it will be right for you. I’m still crossing everything for you 💜

[Vivkim in reply to Firsttimettc]

Just a little update…day 11 FER =BFN. We’ve had a cry but will carry on as we should until Wednesday and get our heads around next steps. Hope you’re okay 💜

[Firsttimettc in reply to Vivkim]

So sorry to hear was hoping for you since I got my bfn honestly it's so unfair I think I'm definitely going to take a break to wrap my head around this 2 failed ivf can really put you in a bad place but we still hope for the best everytime

[Vivkim in reply to Firsttimettc]

it’s a tricky journey! I’m swung from blaming my OH, to myself, and everyone in between in the last 24 hours. I hope you’re doing okay. 💜

[2cherry79]

Just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened. I lost my 4AA in the thaw just before a transfer. It was really hard to process. The clinician barely looked at me and when I asked the chances of it happening he said 5% and nothing more. Another clinician later said their rate is now 97% successful thaws. Just awful. It was my best too.

Wishing you all the best of luck.

It's so so hard isn't it with the 2ww and the symptoms. They are so similar for the meds, pregnancy and an approaching period! Trying really hard not to read into it!

[Vivkim in reply to 2cherry79]

Thank you for your reply 2cherry79. I’m sorry you’ve been through this too. With such high survival rates, I didn’t even think about the possibility of it not surviving. I even candidly told my husband not to be daft when he asked ‘what if it doesn’t survive?’ in the morning of transfer. When we were told about the one that didn’t survive the thaw, I was just about to go in for the transfer of the second embryo that did (sort of) so I didn’t ask any questions.

Trying to say positive in the 2WW but everyone and everything is getting on my nerves 😆 I work in a school and the only thing keeping me going is the daft, funny things the kids say and do.

we have two more embryos left but both are 4bc so not pinning any hope on them. Thinking of putting both back and saying a prayer 🙏

Are you in your 2WW now?

Sending you love and luck 🍀

[lmno]

I had thought it was normal for them to “collapse” during the freeze/thaw process but then begin to re-expand. I had a transfer on Monday which was a 2AB but had been a 3AB when frozen. The embryologist explained they shrink back to 1 and then start to expand again. She said ours had expanded to 2 because our procedure was delayed due to staff shortages so had actually expanded more than it normally would before transfer. To be honest this was our 3rd FET and I hadn’t realised any of this before!

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Hi Imno

You’re right that they compact prior to freezing as fluid is removed from the embryo before freezing to prevent damage. Once thawed, the fluid is returned which then leads to re-expansion. From the RCTs I’ve read, re-expansion of 50% or more in the first two hours after thaw is a good sign but re-expansion can go all the way back up to 100%. The greater the expansion, the greater the success rate.

Ours re-expanded to 50% after 4 hours. 50% (I’m told) is the threshold for what clinics are prepared to transfer but the fact it took 4 hours isn’t a good sign for us. Reassuringly, the embryologist has since told me that the higher grade prior to freezing is used as a marker to indicate success still and I’m told the chance is still ‘good’ as it was graded 4 prior to freezing. What also helps is what percentage of cells survive the thaw.

In all honesty, I wish I didn’t know about % expansion and % cell survival as it’s only added to my anxiety. I’m sorry if I’ve cause you concern.

OTD is this Wednesday so I’ll pop an update on here when I know.

Wishing you all the best for your 2WW 💜

[lmno]

Ah ok, yeah I didn't know any of that! Thanks for explaining. It's amazing that no matter how many times you go through this process there's still more to learn. That's good the embryologist gave you those reassurances. Nah, at this stage it's out of my control and my anxiety is already sky high so you haven't added any concern! My OTD date is also Wed - wishing you all the very best! xx

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Awww not just 2WW buddies, but OTD buddies too 😊 it’s hard not to think about it constantly eh! My OH manages to switch off but WE have the 2/3 x daily reminders of taking meds and all the twinges etc in between! I really fancied a glass of wine tonight but that’s because I’ve entered into the CBA phase and feeling really grumpy about it all.

If you haven’t tested yet, you’re super strong. I’ve been tempted every morning from day 3 but resisted so far. There’s something nice about thinking you’re still in with a shot.

Have a restful weekend. Sending all the luck in the world to you. 5 more get-ups to go 💪🏽

[lmno in reply to Vivkim]

Yes totally. I'm only 4dp5dt but today have entered into the going demented stage and have been feeling pretty anxious and finding it hard to concentrate at work. I will probably test on Monday which is 7 days post transfer. To be honest for all previous transfers I've always had a pretty good sense by then if it's worked or not. Totally relate to the craving for wine! We can do this xx

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Ahhh so my clinic advised to wait 14 days. I’m guessing you were told you don’t have to wait so long which is lovely. I’ve read lots that by day 8 after a 5 day FET you should be able to rely on a sensitive POAS test. I bought some early detection First Response tests. They arrived today but my OH has hidden them from me 😆

We CAN do this 🙌🏼

[lmno in reply to Vivkim]

Oh it's funny how they are all different. Yeh my clinic do a blood test 9 days post 5 day transfers. Haha love that he's hidden them 🤣

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Just a little update…day 11 FER =BFN. We’ve had a cry but will carry on as we should until Wednesday and get our heads around next steps. Hope you’re okay 💜

[lmno in reply to Vivkim]

oh I’m so sorry, thinking of you. It’s such a cruel journey sometimes. Yes keep going with your meds until OTD. Hope you’re able to take some space to process and just feel what you need to this week xx

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Thank you. I hope you’re doing okay 💜

[lmno in reply to Vivkim]

thanks lovely, just tested and BFN 💔

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

I’m so sorry hun. Our time will come. Sending you lots of strength to you until then. Head up and dig deep 💪🏽💜

[lmno in reply to Vivkim]

thanks so much for your kind message. I actually looked at the test a few hours later and could see a teeny line so I’m holding out a tiny bit of hope for the next few days but know it might just be an evaporation line. How are you feeling today? I hope you’re being kind to yourself xx

[Vivkim in reply to lmno]

Sending you hugs and hope! My test on day 11 wasn’t the first pee of the day so I’m clinging on to some hope too.

I feel dreadful today. Had pains in my groin and crazy wind so if it’s still negative tomorrow, I’m hoping the clinic doesn’t say I have to carry on with meds for another two days. I feel like my pee is burning too. For me FET has felt more uncomfortable than the fresh transfers. I’m certainly not looking forward to doing it again. Ahhh the joys haha! 💜

[Vivkim]

I’d love to be offered a blood test. Even after a 14 day POAS BFN I always wonder if the test was defected or if I’d done it correctly so don’t switch off from it. I guess the wait between giving blood and receiving the results agonising though! I really do have everything crossed for you 💜

[Tryingforbabynow]

How did you get on x

[Vivkim]

hi 🙋🏼‍♀️

We didn’t have any success in this round (last February) but I’ve got 4 days left of our 2WW to find out if this (our second) FET has worked. I’ve been super busy with work so this time the 2WW is flying by.

We transferred just one 4BC this time (2BC at time of transfer) as advice pointed towards this being a better option than a double transfer. I’ve given up trying to make predictions so I’ll ride out the next 4 days and test on OTD. Last time we tested on day 11 and it caused more heartache when carrying on with meds etc.

How are you getting along?