Yet another cancelled FET

[Esb27]

I've just had my second FET cancelled due to my lining not thickening - was on progynova 4x a day from day one. It went from a 6.8mm to a 6.3mm (plus the trilameter looked not as obvious so it was obviously breaking down). Am sooooo frustrated. The first one was cancelled because my lining wasn't great either, though I did have covid a few weeks before which caused a mid cycle bleed which I think ruined it (though now i'm starting to think it would have been crap even without the random bleed).

Anyways am feeling a little hopeless and sorry for myself right now. Waiting for the doc to call me today/tomorrow about a new plan as clearly progynova 4x a day isn't working for me. The nurse said they might want to introduce patches with the pills if not maybe try some form of natural cycle.

What has other people's experiences been with lining issues? What if anything ended up working for them? This process is so deflating, and what stresses me out the most is that we're not even getting to the hard bit (i.e getting the embryo put in and no miscarriage/ectopic like i've had before)

[hifer]

It’s a nightmare. I have an uncooperative lining too and I’ve also had cycles cancelled because of it! So sorry your cycle was cancelled. I’m on 10mg a day of Progynova (5 pills a day) and 2 Evorel patches every other day so there is definitely scope for you to up the meds. I was on this before with a successful transfer. I did a natural FET once and that didn’t work. I’m not sure why/ how that would work for you with a thin lining but perhaps I’m missing something. Definitely chat to your doctor about upping the oestrogen and see what they say. So sorry again. I’ve totally been there. Xx

[Esb27 in reply to hifer]

Ahhh it's so nice to hear from people who have been through this, you feel so frustrated and alone (minus your partner obvs) but sooo many women have this issue!! That's interesting that introducing the patches helped you. I'm wondering with slightly longer cycles if a natural fet is even worth doing this side of the year as my cycles don't tend to come back after stopping progynova for a month then i'd be worried transfer would end up on xmas day lol so hopefully we'll just try the patches.

Do you feel awful with the introduction to more estrogen? I've found that x4 a day (from 3x the first time) was quite tough, was up and down emotionally and kept getting bad headaches so a little worried that adding more estrogen will make me feel like actual crap.

Thanks for replying, it really helps xx

[Esb27 in reply to Esb27]

Also well done that you got some success!! There is hope yet xx

[hifer in reply to Esb27]

Yes!!! There is definitely hope. Don’t give up. The drugs don’t make me feel tremendous but perhaps I’m so used to them now? When I first started this cycle I felt terrible, then settled in to it a bit and now I’m used to them. Yes I get headaches, a bit dizzy, light headed and hot flushes but I can’t say whether I wouldn’t have got all of that on less drugs I’m afraid. Im also pretty susceptible to reactions to drugs so someone else might not get such a reaction. I gave up my career to do IVF so I don’t have to hold down a job at the same time! I’d say it’s worth a go though? Also just be careful re transfers around Xmas. My clinic has closing times so you just need to make sure your cycles work with your clinic. I reckon definitely scope to tweak your protocol. Fingers crossed for you xx

[Esb27 in reply to hifer]

If you don't mind me asking how many cancelled cycles did you go through before you found a protocol that worked? It's the waiting that gets to me the most.

Ah yes i'm worried about clinic times around christmas. I have my main clinic then another one where I would do the transfer so have two to consider when it comes to christmas closing times xx

[hifer in reply to Esb27]

Hi,

I had 2 failed transfers, a cancelled cycle because of lining, and a dummy cycle and a natural cycle (cancelled) for tests and investigations. I went through an implantation clinic through my clinic to find out what wasn’t working so I’ve been round the block. I had my lining tested and did EMMA etc so I amended my protocol and also had an extra day of progesterone so a lot changed for my successful cycle.

The waiting is such a killer I know. It’s very nearly sent me round the bend before!! So sorry you’re going through this.

Xx

[Esb27 in reply to hifer]

That's so interesting! Sorry to hear your had a couple of failed transfers as well. What did the lining and EMMA test come back with if you don't mind me asking?

Yeah it's a b*tch!! Thanks, appreciate that xx

[Star3129 in reply to Esb27]

Hey sorry to hear about your cycle cancelling, i had a similar post this early morning but my query wasn't answered, wonder why it happens to few posts??

Anyway,i was going through your comment and read that after taking Progynova your period does not come on time and takes time.

Something like this happened with me I was suppose to get transferred on 4th this month but due to change in drug I got stiffness and water retention and had to cancel it.

Then to see I was given Progynova which has again delayed periods. Now waiting for the periods to show and start fet soon

Why this journey is so damn hard,I wonder...

[Esb27 in reply to Star3129]

Hi Star3129,

Yeah I've had that with HealthUnlocked posts, it's weird.

Waiting for your period is hard, my experience of it last time was that when I stopped the meds my cycle re-started without a bleed so I had to wait 30 days for my next cycle to begin which was annoying. I did see on your post that you had started progesterone which is weird that it hasn't come yet, I read that if you were at that stage your periods come sooner than if you're just at the progynova stage.

It's so hard isn't it! Good luck with your next appointment, I hope your clinic can give you some guidance (and some meds to bring on your period if needed!)

[Star3129 in reply to Esb27]

Thanks for the wishes and for replying..

It feels relax to know it is common and can happen with the drugs. Fingers crossed for us both 🤞that fet comes with positive outcome

[Esb27 in reply to Star3129]

Yes fingers crossed!!!

[Pebbles345]

hi, I just wanted to say that I have been there and I know how hard it is!! Lining has always been an issue for me and I had 5 cycles cancelled due to a skinny lining.

I have had a successful pregnancy on a lining of 6.8 but it took a long time to get there.

I Increased the progynova tablets to 4x a day and 1 patch every 2 days. I also introduced 1 x low dose aspirin on my successful cycle. I've taken high dose vitamin E and lots of raspberry leaf tea. I don't know if you exercise a lot or are quite petite but my consultant advised me to put some weight on. I was unimpressed as the time but it has worked.

If there is any specific advice I can offer please DM me. Please don't give up!! xxx

[Esb27 in reply to Pebbles345]

Hi Pebbles345, thanks so much for your response!! Wow 5 cycles!! That's loads, you poor thing. There's me complaining after 2 lol. So was progynova 4x, 1 patch every 2 days and 1 low dose of aspirin work for you in the end? I am already taking Vit e (400 I.U) not sure if that's high or not. Got the raspberry leaf tea funnily enough but not actually had any, maybe next time I will haha. I deffo want to ask about the baby aspirin though as i've heard this has helped others too.

Lol that's interesting about the weight! I would say i'm a 'healthy' weight and exercise moderately, deffo not petite though so I'd be surprised if my doc said that to me.

Thanks for responding though, everyone is so helpful and nice on this site, makes you feel like there's hope too (I deffo won't give up, if anything this will push me to be more determined.....once I get over the initial frustrating of the cancelled cycle!) xxx

[Cricril in reply to Esb27]

hi,

So great to hear you had success.

Can I just ask, did you see an increase in the lining when you initially started the medication or was it stubborn, and only actually start to increase when you were on the heavier meds and patches?

Also struggling with lining issue and it’s very frustrating x

[Habibi87]

Hi Esb27,

So sorry to hear your cycle was cancelled. This happened to us as well on a medicated FET which had both thin lining and some unexplained fluid. In our case the lining issue completely went away with natural FET and also with a stimulated FET. Some women respond badly to the medicated FET protocol. Do you know what your lining is like normally and what it looked like during prep for egg collection (if you had one)? Sending you love x

[Esb27 in reply to Habibi87]

Hi Habibi87,

Thanks for the response. Ah that's a shame you didn't react well to either, that is my nightmare. What else have they tried with you to get you there? I'm not really sure what it is like naturally as I can't remember what they said my lining was around egg collection, going to ask them when I speak to them later today hopefully. I think they said it was good so maybe a natural one might be better for me. Who knows, this is so hard!! Thanks for the love, sending it back to you too x

[PaulaDag]

Hi, I’ve also had a few medicated FETs where I struggled to get to the minimum 7mm lining for transfer. The first one they upped me from 3 to 4x progynova at the 2nd scan and then added in oestrogen patches every 48 hours. We got there with an extra week on meds and 8mm I think.

The second FET, my lining was 4.1mm at 2nd scan based on 4x progynova from the start of the fet. They added in 4x viagra vaginal pessaries and an oestrogen patch everyday and it worked after an extra week of these meds.

Really hard to be extended for extra weeks and more meds added.

For this current FET they added 4 progynova and 4x viagra pessaries right from the start and I was ready for the first time with a medicated cycle at 2nd scan. It was so nice to be ready when I’m supposed to be.

Maybe you could ask them about viagra pessaries as an option. Apparently it’s quite common.

I have read that your lining is generally thicker with a natural FET as you ovulate so the follicle secretes a corpus leutium which thickens the lining better than a medicated cycle. I had a natural fet once before and it was thicker but now that I’ve had an ERA under a medicated cycle they want to stick with medicated to be sure the receptivity is correct.

X

[Esb27 in reply to PaulaDag]

Hi PaulaDag,

Thanks for your message, that is so interesting to hear your story. I've heard a fair bit about Viagra so will definitely as them. The only issue I have is that because i'm doing it on the NHS I don't get the same face time with the doctors, only the nurses and you feel like you can't really suggest things (well maybe that's me being precious) but with a clinic you pay for privately I feel like you can come to them with suggestions. I will be asking them about baby aspirin, Viagra etc anyways as what have I got to lose ey.

Yes my nurse mentioned this about a natural FET, I'm also in a bit of an awkward position in terms of timings for Christmas so god knows if I'd have to wait longer and do it in January so not to have any closer disturbances. x

[Melody79]

sorry to hear this - it is so hard and I have been here. I was on 4 x Prog a day and it didn't work, so added in patches but this was worse for me than the previous round. I am now waiting to try alternative method, maybe modified natural cycle. Just giving a break to have a proper bleed and get all the excess estrogen out. I can't offer much advice as I've not had any more cycles but just no that you are not alone, as i felt like I was at times. Take care x

[Esb27 in reply to Melody79]

Thanks Melody79, I appreciate the response. Am nervous that the patches won't help but I guess you have to try these things to know they won't! I hate that about this!! Good luck with your new protocol. A natural medicated cycle could be what you need if your body doesn't respond to the meds!! Maybe I will be in the same boat too, who knows. Thanks, I really appreciate that, it does feel quite scary and lonely sometimes but know you guys go through it too really helps x

[Melody79 in reply to Esb27]

It's hard as things work so differently for everyone - patches and prog have worked for many others. It's such a trial of what is best and exhausting It's always best to try as hard as it is at least you can track and test before putting the precious embryo's back. So many different protocools as well. All the best to you as well xx

[Esb27 in reply to Melody79]

Yeah there's no one size fits all (so to speak)! You're right I'd rather try this and not get any further than waste my embryos, I have 5 so if I'd have done transfers I would have potentially wasted 2 already!! Thanks so much xx

[Libsie3103]

So sorry to hear this it’s so tough - I think mentally we know they may not implant but don’t expect to not get to that point. I’ve been through exactly the same thing as you and had 3 FETs cancelled. In the end a natural FET worked for me and my little girl is now 18 months. My body was resistant to artificial estrogen and even with massive doses nothing helped. I could t get my head round how taking nothing would be better but it was! I can’t remember exactly what it was but it was less than 8mm on our successful transfer. The other thing we tried was mild stimulation, so a very low dose of what you’d take for egg collection as, as the follicles grow, your liking thickens. That got me a nice lining as well - sadly it was a BFN but not because of my lining. Wishing you lots of luck xx

[Esb27 in reply to Libsie3103]

Hi Libsie3103, ahhh thanks for your feedback, so useful to hear. Congrats on the successful natural FET! I've heard of a few women using low doseage stim meds to help with lining so maybe that could be an option for me one day. Guess I just need to hear what the docs are suggesting first, probs more estrogen but I have to try it as you never know ey. Thanks for the luck, it's very much appreciated xx

[Libsie3103 in reply to Esb27]

Thank you! Totally agree that you need to see what the Dr days but it’s one to ask about as well and see what their thoughts are. Wishing you lots of luck xx

[Star3129 in reply to Libsie3103]

HI Libsie,congratulations on your successful fet read your comment that you went for natural fet which was successful which is great. Could you tell me if there was any sorts for oestrogen given at all in your natural fet ?

[Libsie3103 in reply to Star3129]

Thank you! No estrogen at all, I didn’t take any medication at all until after the transfer and then just progesterone. I couldn’t initially get my head round how that could work but it did. I guess in some instances our bodies don’t need help with the whole process just parts of it? Who knows!! x

[Star3129 in reply to Libsie3103]

That is great, my doctor said to me when I had stiffness with the new drug that she would have to give me estrogen for the fet.

Guess it depends on the doctor or maybe something what is meant to be will be it will inspite of all odds.

[Libsie3103 in reply to Star3129]

It’s very much case by case and letting your Dr do what’s right for you. A natural FET just means no medication but obviously LOADs of people have success with medicated FETs, it’s just looking at the right option for you xx

[Star3129 in reply to Libsie3103]

Yes that is what I asked my doctor and she told me that even if it is natural still she would have to give estrogen so really i think in depends on the doctor's call which is at times confusing for patients.

[Missl73]

I never responded well to a medicated FET my lining would get thinner the more they upped my estrogen doses. What worked perfectly was both a natural FET with no drugs at all just a trigger shot to time ovulation and also a natural modified where we used very low dose stims. Personally, I would try one of these options before trying another FET with artificial estrogen - I don’t know why more clinics don’t try this first as I’ve seen so many stories like mine on these forums where women just don’t do well with progynova.

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

That's really interesting, thanks Missl73! Yeah I know the nurse was pitching a natural fet to the doc so we'll see what they say, not sure if the timings will work out cos of Christmas so I might have to wait until Jan annoyingly (as I think a natural fet would maybe be a longer cycle) but it's definitely one that's crossed my mind rather than just upping the estrogen again

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

It's funny you say that because the nurse who did my scans said to me she'd seen it so many times and despite her trying to say this the doctor just kept upping my dose and the nurse said she didn't think that would work and she was absolutely right but the doctors kept ignoring her suggestions!!

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Urgh that's really frustrating!! It's so annoying because for some women upping the estrogen has worked and for others it hasn't. I wish you could know which one you were going to be without testing both out cos when things don't work it delays you so much

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

I would say because your lining isn’t just growing slowly but has actually gone backwards you’re more likely to fall into the same category as me and upping it isn’t going to help. If it were just that your lining was growing slowly then I think more likely changing the dose could work. You can test it within this cycle, they upped my dose and I just continued to go backwards and my lining deteriorated even further which we learnt within 2-3 days so we abandoned the cycle and on the first day I bled I started low dose stims so was immediately into a new FET cycle - that actually was the one I got pregnant with my son!

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Ah that's v interesting!!I'll deffo say that to the nurses when they call, see if they agree. When you stopped the estrogen each time how long did it take for you to bleed? The last time (when my lining dropped to 5.6) this happened I didn't bleed after I stopped the meds and I think my cycle just re-set after stopping without a bleed so I got my period 33 days after stopping. Have you sometimes had a bleed a week or two after stopping meds?

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

I'm trying to remember but it was a couple of years ago, I have a feeling we went ahead and did the trigger shot so that I would ovulate then I had a bleed a week or two later like you would in a regular menstrual cycle and on CD1 of the next cycle we started on the new protocol.

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Ah right, what about the other times you were just taking estrogen? I don't think you would have used a trigger shot every cycle right?

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

I never had a successful medicated FET that didn't get abandoned because my lining never worked on that protocol, but had it done it would have been estrogen until lining was thick enough, then progesterone for a few days before transfer. But because my successful FETs were natural or modified natural those always used a trigger as I didn't take estrogen or progesterone it was my own hormones doing the work so we needed to mimic ovulation using a trigger shot to make that happen.

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Oh yeah sorry I meant on your abandoned medicated FETs how long did it take for a bleed/your cycle to return?

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

Still just a week or two I think. I'm going to dig out my diary and see if it has any more information (I kept detailed notes from all my cycles) as I could just not be remembering right. Thinking about it biologically, if you just stop estrogen and there is no progesterone there is nothing to tell your body to bleed as it's the progesterone dropping that usually provides the signal to your body for a period which would explain why it took so long for your cycle to start.

[Missl73 in reply to Missl73]

Found my diary. So I took cyclogest for a week when we abandoned the cycle and then stopped it so I got my period 8 days from the day we decided to abandon.

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Ahh thanks for checking! that's quite quick but I wonder if that's because you didn't take it for long. I took it for 17 days so totally expecting not to bleed for at least another 30 days

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

The estrogen for 17 days? I took estrogen for 23 days, we agreed it wasn’t working so I stopped and took progesterone for 7 days and then stopped it and my bleed happened 2 days after stopping the progesterone. Were you given progesterone to take or just stopped the estrogen?

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Yeah I took it for 17, no progesterone sadly.

[Melody79 in reply to Missl73]

That's interesting - I also have just estrogen and was told to stop as wasn't working - not told to take progesterone and that's then why it took longer for period to start. Mine was 44 days to the next bleed.

[Esb27 in reply to Melody79]

urgh yeah same boat as me! I was 33 days. Your cycle just re-sets without a bleed. So annoying! But then again I have heard of women who don't bleed as quickly after the progesterone too so everyone is different.

[Star3129 in reply to Esb27]

I am in a similar situation and keep searching for the reason. I bled on 9th Sept and then was given estrogen to see if the other drug has no wide effect which was around the same time of my periods then it didn't came . I then rang my clinic and went in for scan where they saw 2 ruptured eggs(which shouldn't have happen according to doctor )some cyst and was given lupride injection and was told I will have periods plus also given progesterone for 5 days,I am still waiting,it should start soon🤞After progesterone drops the lining starts to shed and that's when we get bleed.

You could ring your clinic and book a scan to see inside uterus if all is ok.

[Esb27 in reply to Star3129]

Ahh that sounds confusing! It's okay I'm not going to ring yet until it's been longer than 30 days. I did that last time as I was worried it hadn't turned up but they said all was fine on the scan and that I had probs re-started my cycle without a bleed. They said by the scan it showed I had ovulated so to expect it two weeks later and then magically it came after that.

I can't comment on periods after progesterone though as i've not got that far. I've hear it's mostly fairly quick but not everyone will be the same...

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

Ok got it. To get your period, one of the following two things needs to happen, you need to ovulate OR you need to take progesterone for a few days and stop it. It’s the stopping progesterone that will tell your body to bleed. It sounds like you haven’t yet made the decision to abandon this cycle and you’re still taking estrogen? If you do abandon, if you still go ahead and take the 5 days of progesterone I would expect your period to come quite soon once you finish the course of progesterone - for me it was 2 days it might be up to a week.

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

Unfortunately we have abandoned the cycle so my last estrogen pill was Monday morning, by my clinic haven't advised me to take progesterone to get my periods to come back. I just have to wait (as in for my body to re-start the cycle by itself, like it did last time) which sucks. They will give me something if it doesn't turn up after say 6 weeks but they don't do the way yours does which is sooo annoying. Just makes everything longer

[Missl73 in reply to Esb27]

gah that’s so frustrating and so unnecessary for just a few days of taking progesterone 🤦🏻‍♀️ so sorry you’re going to have to wait. If I were you in that situation I’d be pushing even harder to try a different protocol because you don’t want to wait 6 weeks only to try the same thing again and find the same thing happens again. I hope you can plan some nice things to do to make the time pass quicker xx

[Esb27 in reply to Missl73]

I know it's ridiculous. Am going to ask if I can take progesterone but they still haven;t called me and it's been 3 days since I stopped the estrogen so it's probs too late so i'll just have to wait. Thanks, I am going to plan some nice things yeah, waiting is the worst xx

[pinky30]

i had similar lining issues and think i have had 6 cancelled cycles... i ended up on 3 oral progynova, 2 vaginal progynova (these have a big impact as have a first pass effect directly on your endometrium rather than going through the liver, and also 2 patches changesd every other day... i also take baby asprin, high dose vit E and vit C - plus ensuring a good dose of vaginal probiotics beforehand. i've found when i stopped exercising (bizarrely!) this helped a lot too (although could be complete coincidence). i was stuck in the 7mm's which although isn't awFul, i really wanted to be at 9...

Also, i found that stepping up the dose half way through never worked as well as going in at the full dose straight from the start

I think it's def worth talking about vaginal administration & patches as well x

[Esb27 in reply to pinky30]

Hi Pinky30,

Oh my 6 cancelled is so tough!! Massive props to you for making it through that. Yeah am very intrigued about vaginal estrogen, it's definitely something I'd like to look into if my clinic suggest another medicated cycle. When you say high dose of vit e and c, how much do you take? I do take it but I doubt it's super high. Baby aspirin is another one I'm intrigued by so will be asking about that too....if my clinic ever bloody call me back! x

[pinky30 in reply to Esb27]

1000 vit C and 400iu vit e (many e it's not that high?) and then some more in the prenatal? The combo def made a difference for me...

I also noticed that my lining measurement correlated with starting thickness so in months it started 1mm thicker, I reached 1mm more in the end...

I hope they can sort it for you! Def worth a try!

[Esb27 in reply to pinky30]

Ah yes that's what I'm taking too! I'm not taking a pre-natal though, just got this vit b complex which has folic acid in etc. Glad it helped for you! I think it might be helping me naturally but not sure that medicated is really working for me, bah!

[pinky30 in reply to Esb27]

always worth trying something new and seeing what effect it could have. I know in the US there is lots of talk of using letrozole to stimulate your natural estrogen production so you could look into that...

[Esb27 in reply to pinky30]

Oh interesting, will look into that. Thanks!!