CareMaps - recommended? and opinion on expanded blastocyst graded 2-3

[Orangeflowers]

Hello,

Does anybody have the Caremaps grading system please? How does a expanded blastocyst graded 2-3 rate? I was told previously it was equivalent to a 4bb, but now I'm not so sure.

It's really difficult to get details from my clinic and consultations are rushed.

Also would anyone recommend using/not using Caremaps? I can see the advantage of not taking the embryos out to examine,which I think is the embryoscope bit, but I'm not sure if the grading is worth it if I only ever produce -2-3 blasts

i'll ask the clinic too, just want some independent experience...

hope all is well with everyone

[Kittykat198]

Im really sorry and have no advice but I have had exactly the same issue!!!!We have one embryo graded 2 on care maps with a 7% chance of a live birth, but graded 1 by the embryologist. I’ve tried asking what that’s the equivalent to and they don’t tell you. I’ve no idea if it’s worth transferring or not! They said they don’t freeze if they aren’t good but I can’t get away from the low caremaps.

We have another one which has better scoring so transferring that next time.

When googling I only found people who had a grade of 9 or 10 which is the best so that made me feel great!

We have caremaps free with our payment package but I don’t think I would pay because it’s confusing and they give you no info on it. I also only have a couple of blasts so really not impressed.

I wish they showed what the grading means compared to their embryologists scoring but they don’t.

I would deffo be interested if you manage to find out more?!

[Orangeflowers in reply to Kittykat198]

Hey, thanks so much for sharing. It is so weird that the grading system is such a mystery! I don't understand how nothing can come up with a Google search?!

What I found frustrating is that they seem to have different grading systems within Caremaps - a different grading system to apply to day 3, 4 and 5 embryos and then there is the e.g. 2-3 grading, grading with letters like Es on, and then a single grading 1-10 which they share with women, but never seem to tell me, let alone the chance of pregnancy %! 😜😂 What's the point in a advanced grading system that's sleuthed in mystery and not shared! I'm wondering if the grade is just pretty poor and they don't like to discourage me? I'm thinking now it is more equivalent to a 3bc... Or lower...

I've no idea if 1 or 10is best when 2 numbers are quoted...

If I get my hands on the grading sheet I'll let you know. I've requested it!

Hope all goes well with your next transfer 😊x

[Kittykat198 in reply to Orangeflowers]

It feels a bit cheeky when we pay through the nose for this treatment too. The embryologist told us they grade blasts 1-4 with 1 being good and 4 not freezable. So 2/3 sounds like they are freezable and in with a reasonable shot? We had a blast second round that they discarded because is was poor quality on day 5 and couldn’t be frozen and we had one better one transfered.

My clinic also graded the blasts differently to the day 3 ones.

How that maps to the caremaps thing I don’t know though! they only told my partner the 7% thing and haven’t told us what the other embryos were at all.

It’s really good to read I’m not the only one baffled by their grading!!!

Best of luck to you too!

[Orangeflowers in reply to Kittykat198]

Thank you! This does seem poor given the cost. My Dr said the embryo I had frozen was a 2-3 - I assumed that was a grading for the baby and placenta like the other system, but I think not. I think one of the numbers might relate to fragmentation. So many different utterances of the same grading system! Your 1-4 grading seems sensible. Thanks for that.

I'll let you know if I get any further with the embryologists. Would just be nice to have the chart and know definitively and how it relates to the easier system! xx

[Orangeflowers in reply to Kittykat198]

Hey, I managed to get a bit more info so far, but not the chart unfortunately.

The embryo I had frozen was a EXB2,3+ which on the old grading system would have been a 4BC+. This is the lowest grading where an embryo can be frozen in my lab. There are other labs where they freeze even lower quality embryos.

The embryo I have frozen scored a 2 which has a 7.4% LB rate. The two other embryos that were transferred, resulting in BFN, had a score of 4 and 6 which relates to a 17 and 26.2% of LB each.

I think the success rate is quite a bit lower than that for me though, as I'm 43. When the two which resulted in BFN were transferred they were very early blasts/ morulas.

I'm not convinced this really means much as others have said.. x

[Kittykat198 in reply to Orangeflowers]

It doesn’t sound like there is much in it for age? Im 39 and my 2 was the 7% one? Thank you for sharing and I might try again to see if they will give us the abc grading ones. It does seem that the 1234 corresponds a little to the abcd system from what they have said to you though but this is just guess work!!!

Best of luck with your transfer!

[Orangeflowers in reply to Kittykat198]

Yeah, sounds like we both got 7% for the 2. On the age thing I meant that for me most likely it is even lower than 7% as Caremaps doesn't account for age. The same graded embryo produced from a older person is likely to be less successful than one produced from a younger person I've heard as there are more likely to be hidden genetic abnormalities. You're quite a bit younger so your 2 will have a better chance, maybe higher than 7% if they work on age averages. Do update if you manage to get any more grading info! Good luck 😃🍀

[slupton]

Hey hun! I don't have the answer to your question but my last two embryos weren't even given a grade as one had only just turned to a blastocyst and the other still hadn't developed into one. They are both sleeping in a cot next to me and are absolutely perfect! Before this cycle worked I had 4 transfers of top graded embryos that did not work. I appreciate there is science behind it of course but I truly believe if its meant to be it will be as hard as that is to hear sometimes and I have been through some horrendous times. All you can do is try to do everything you can to make it work and go with what's in front of you. I remember being so upset that my last ever embryos were poor quality not good enough to freeze apparently! Well I proved the science wrong . Sending you big hugs and lots of love and luck xxxx

[Orangeflowers in reply to slupton]

Thank you so much. That gives me hope. My embryos weren't developed enough on day 5 to grade. What a happy ending, enjoy your little ones 😘xx

[Zeebee14]

I had one day 5 blastocyst graded 2 transferred which I’m currently pregnant with. I had 3 other day 5 blastocysts graded 3 and they said they were not suitable to freeze so we’re discarded even though they were still developing and had not arrested.

I found this devastating as I’ve heard so many stories of people becoming pregnant with lower grade blastocysts. So we only have the baby I’m pregnant with, which is obviously good to have a baby but there is no chance of a sibling as we used donor eggs and we have nothing in the freezer.

When I asked about the grades the embryologist showed me a chart and explained it to me, but it wasn’t as clear as the standard grading system. I’m not sure why they have such a confusing system that is so different from most other clinics.

.

[Orangeflowers in reply to Zeebee14]

Thank you for getting back to me. Glad I'm not the only one confused 😂 I'm sorry the outcome didn't give you a sibling, but it's wonderful that an early blasto has been successful for you. This gives me hope. Hope everything goes well for you x

[Hopeful_dream]

I had a 5 day hatching blastocyst transferred last week that was graded 1-2. I asked for more info as it was the only one to make it and was disappointed to only get one as it’s my first round with donor eggs (and donor sperm as am single). The other 5 developed further overnight but didn’t quite make the grade for freezing. So it’s all or nothing with this one 😬

The embryologist just said they give the inner mass (baby?) and trophectoderm (placenta?) a grade each and that mine was a good grade overall. Will find out soon…

Very best of luck to you 🤞🏻 Xx

[Orangeflowers in reply to Hopeful_dream]

Awe, thank you for sharing. That's really helpful. I'm still a bit confused but your grade sounds fab to me and as others have said, the grade doesn't always count. Best of luck. Fingers crossed 🤞 for you x

[Hopeful_dream in reply to Orangeflowers]

Thank you, it does seem to be a very confusing system! xx