After being unsuccessful using my own eggs despite good grades all have been BFN.
We were advised DE would be the best option for us.
We’ve just had a BFN from our first DE transfer. Totally devastated. Not even a faint line.
Our donor is 33years old.Part of an egg share programme.
We were so lucky to have 11 eggs. 1 disintegrated, 7 were immature leaving 3 mature.
All 3 fertilised and made top grade embryos. 2x4AA, 1x4xAB 🎉🎉.
We had a 4AA transferred. The others frozen.
Scans went well, I had extra progesterone, it was tested the day before transfer, our clinic said anything over 30 is good, mine was 41. I was also on 5mg prednisone.
I don’t know where to go from here. Just feeling lost.
Our consultant suggested it’s another numbers game.
We have two top quality embryos and would hope one would work.
I’ve asked for further testing but they don’t see the need.
They have suggested we do a FET, either natural or medicated, possibly increase prednisone to 10mg, continue with the Lubion.
If that doesn’t work to maybe look at NK testing although doesn’t see the need.
They have said it if I want to proceed with NK testing prior to transfer it’s up to me.
I have been lucky enough to have a natural positive test, although all have ended early which has been put down to age 😣.
Due to this our consultant that doesn’t feel the need for an ERA test.
I don’t want to waste the embryos I have, time isn’t on my side either.
I’d be grateful for anyone’s thoughts/ advice.
Thank you for reading ❤️🩹.
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Miracle43
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Huge hugs to you this is such a difficult process. We had similar problems to yourself. Either bfn or didn’t make day 5 with our own. (They were chromosomally normal but poor quality)
We then went on to donor egg and hubbys sperm exactly the same poor quality didn’t make transfer.
Next up double donor - we were thinking this is great - 3 embryos amazing quality … all abnormal when tested. 🤦♀️
Next round double donor… 2 embryos great quality… chromosomally normal. First transfer bfn. Second chemical pregnancy.
We are now on to double donor again awaiting to hear the results of the dgp not that it matters as nothing seems to work.
Our doctor hasn’t recommended era as we have had a chemical so she thinks my womb is receptive. They upped my prednisolone, progesterone and blood thinners. I honestly can’t help but think it’s just down to luck. And our luck just seems to be awful. I hope they manage to tweek the protocol so that it works for you xxx
Hiya I have had a hysterocopy. I’ve just had an era too and it said although I’ve had a chemical so 2 have implanted. I need an extra day of progesterone so the transfer would be on day 6 instead of 5 xxx no idea if it will help but we are clutching at straws now xxx I hope you are ok xxx
I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. Have you considered doing EMMA and ALICE tests? I highly recommend them. We suffer from infertility, implantation failure and recurrent miscarriage and we were advised to do PGD, as we were told pregnancy rates improve with chromosomally normal embryos, but after a failed transfer of a PGD tested top quality embryo (AA), we decided we wanted to do some more tests before doing another transfer. At that time we had 2 lower quality embryos left in the freezer and we didn't want to waste them, as we had decided this would probably be our last cycle with my own eggs. My EMMA and ALICE tests both came back with really abnormal results and I was treated with antibiotics followed by probiotics. I then had to repeat the tests again and the results came back normal. I then had a transfer and I am now 25 weeks pregnant!
I also had other tests done. I had a hysteroscopy and that showed I had a T-shaped uterus and I had surgery to correct that, as apparently that can affect implantation too and cause miscarriages.
I also had screening for thyroid, blood clotting and autoimmune issues and was prescribed heparin, aspirin, steroids and hydroxychloroquine. I had excision surgery for severe endometriosis (that had gone undiagnosed for over 20 years!) too.
Our consultant also said it was a numbers game, but every time we wanted to try or test something different.
Infertility and IVF is such a hard journey and an emotional rollercoaster. I am here if you need me. xxx
Thank you so much for your reply. Congratulations on your pregnancy 💖.
I haven’t had Emma/Alice, I have asked.
Before this cycle it did take a course of canesflor probiotic pessaries … well I did the 5 day course, and followed up with the one a wk later. I did miss one. It was recommended by someone here.
I’ve asked about a hysteroscopy but again told it’s not required 😣.
I’ve been lucky to see my GP who has just done some bloods, I think they are testing thyroid, basic hormone so hopefully will get the results in a few days, but will definitely ask about further tests.
It is so frustrating when the consultants keep telling you further tests are not required (or not required yet) and that is a "numbers game". It was the same for me but I am very stubborn so I kept insisting!
It is so good that you have been able to see your GP and have some bloods. Yes, please, let me know how you get on and feel free to PM me if you want to chat or have any other specific questions about tests. I forgot to say earlier that I also had an ERA test and the consultant had also told me I didn't need one because I managed to get pregnant before, but I insisted.
May I ask if you have done fresh and/or frozen transfers? and on a natural cycle or a medicated one? I think each of us is different, but my body struggled with the medication and all the hormones, so for me FET on a natural cycle was much better. My best friend coped better with medicated cycles though. Just remember that if you decide to do the EMMA/ALICE/ERA tests, you need to do them on the same type of cycle you would do the transfer. For me, I did all these three tests on a natural cycle and my last (successful) FET was also on a natural cycle.
I think in the IVF rollercoaster we just need to be strong and persevere. Sending you lots of strength your way and you are not alone!!! xx
I keep asking for tests but I’m sure previous losses have been put down to age so the clinic in a away didn’t want me to go ahead with tests which they felt would help, which I understand but what if it’s not all age. It’s so frustrating and heartbreaking.
I think as this was my first DE .. the number game has come back.
I don’t want to waste what we have, on the flip side I don’t have time either. It’s so confusing.
I really don’t know what to do about an ERA.
I have only done fresh transfers.
All medicated.
This next one will be my first FET.
This cycle was synced with our donor. I was on Suprecur prior to my bleed for about 3wks. They did think I was on initially too much because my lining wasn’t thickening enough with Progynova so had to additional patches.
I have had a follicle scan previously on a natural cycle to check my lining, just for my piece of mind to see how I do naturally with the meds and I seemed to be ok on my own. So they have suggested doing a natural cycle and adding meds if needed.
I didn’t know that about the tests, thank you. I thought you had to have medicated for the ERA.
Thank you so much for your advice. I really appreciate it.
I’m following up with the consult for NK cells and I’ll look further into the ERA.
This a difficult and stressful time for you and your OH- remember to keep talking to each other and be kind to yourself Make sure you have support at this time -maybe ask for an other counselling appointment at the clinic Thinking of you
Thank you so much for your reply. I am lucky my OH is very supportive. I sometimes forget he’s going through this too. I need to be there for him more xxx
I'm so sorry about your BFN. It's so unfair. I think we all feel that if you go for DE it basically SHOULD be guaranteed to work! So it must be just so crushing when it doesn't. It's so hard hearing 'it's a numbers game'. I totally understand you wanting to rule out everything you can though. My third transfer just failed so before transferring the last 2 embryos we have frozen I've insisted on doing a swathe of tests. I want to check NK levels, do an ERA (as I've never had a BFP, in 3 years of trying) and do something like the EMMA/ALICE tests to (the clinic I'm seeing for these tests doesn't do EMMA/ALICE exactly, I believe, but does something very similar?). I'd say your chances of having a great, chromosomally normal embryo from those 2 frosties is pretty good so am really hoping you get good new soon. Sending you lots of love xx
I’m so sorry about your recent result. It never gets easier does it. Someone recommended before having an Alice/Emma they tried Canesflor probiotic pessaries… maybe have a look in here. You can get them from Boots. PM if I can help further.
Thank you for your positivity, it was really needed today 💕. I hope you get good news too soon.
I know it’s really unhelpful when doctors say “it’s a numbers game”, but I want to reassure you that there is often one good embryo within a batch of eggs collected. Also; grading really doesn’t mean very much. I had two miscarriages with PGS tested perfect grade embryos, but the one that stuck was the “worst” graded one.
One other thing to potentially look at is immunes - 5mg steroids won’t do much, I was on 25mg. There is a specialist immune clinic in Epsom you could look up xx
It is so frustrating when they say it, also when you look for guidance and you don’t really get any. Thank you so much for your reassurance. I really hope so.
I thought same about the steroid. The box said to take 2x5mg but the clinic insisted on 1x5mg.
They have said they would increase to 10my this cycle , saying this is the max they can prescribe without having NK testing.
I’ve been given details so will definitely look into.
I really feel for you as I'm in a very similar position. I had my first fail on DE (chemical) and my doc said exactly the same thing. We'd actually had an ERA before so we also knew I was receptive.
I've pushed for the extra immunity tests which I'm waiting now for them to come back but as you've said my doc feels pretty sure it's just a numbers game, and the top quality embryo could still be abnormal.
I felt so lost. I still have bad days (this was mid December). But I've kind of started to accept it's probably just luck.
But we only have one transfer left so I've pushed for the other tests (also doing a saline scan to look at the uterus structurally) just so I feel like I have more information.
I wish you all the best and hope is still there for your next cycle. But I get that it knocks you as people tell you DE is your "fix" and then it isn't.
Sorry this cycle didn’t work out. Just my thoughts and obviously not a medical doctor but what unit is the progesterone measured in? if that is nmol/L that doesn’t seem that high if you were taking lubion every day? My clinic personally like a combination of formulations eg cyclogest and lubion although one consultant was a particular fan of progesterone in oil intramuscular shots into the buttock!
I never had my levels checked but others might have done to give you a comparison? I was personally prescribed 2 x cyclogest and 1 x lubion as progesterone support.
Hello hun, I'm so terribly sorry for all you've been through. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts that popped in to my head, I wondered if you might need more steroid/prednisolone - after 5 failed transfers (7 embryos) I had testing for uterine natural killer cells and was recommended 20mg prednisolone daily. This is my first transfer taking the prednisolone and I'm currently almost 9 weeks pregnant, of course there's still a long way to go but for me it's been transformative. The other thing I wondered, and sorry if I'm being silly/misunderstood, but I wasn't sure why natural conception would mean you didn't need an ERA? I always thought ERA was about determining the exact right transfer window for IVF, so really different to natural conception. I had the ERA done too before my most recent transfer, to make absolutely sure we had the timing of transfer right. Wishing you so much luck hun.
Thank you so much. Congratulations on your pregnancy 💕.
I’ve also thought 5mg was too low, they have said they will increase to 10mg if we /when go ahead with FET.
Without testing they advised 10mg is the max. I’m looking into a cinsukt for NK testing.
Your definitely not being silly, it’s my understanding too about ERA, natural is one thing, ivf totally different but I don’t seem to be getting them to understand 😩.
I’m told ‘you have had a positve test so there is no need’🤷🏼♀️
Previous failures put down to my age. So I’m still unsure what to do.
Thank you for for taking the time to reply. Wishing lots of luck with the rest of your pregnancy xxx
Thank you so much hun. Wishing you all the luck in the world, which you so so deserve.
If you're looking in to NK cell testing there is an implantation clinic run jointly by Warwick University at Coventry hospital, which is where I went, it was £550 as a self-referral (I felt in IVF terms it was quite reasonable, I think because it's part of a research project run within the NHS).
We added prednisolone and clexane injections as a precaution the second time around. I also switched to lubion/prolutex injections. I monitored my progesterone for about the first six weeks and it was up and down a lot. It was 190nmol two days before transfer and only 29 the day after.
Hi I did a medicated cycle and was on aspirin for my previous 2 cycles and lost both pregnancies, I took clexane for months before medicated transfer and after x
Hello Miracle43Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and hopefully some hope. I tried for 7 years to finally get my wee boy. The final 3 attempts were DE. The biggest thing between my first transfer (absolutely negative) and my first ever bfp was time out from work - a total de stress and reset. During that time I studied mindfulness and discovered kinesiology. My second attempt was my first ever bfp. Sadly it ended in an anembryonic. For my third transfer I also got the thrombophelia panel of tests and started taking baby aspirin beforehand. That attempt is now 2.5 this month.
Happy to chat if you would like. Wishing you all the best xxx
It would be worth asking your GP if you might be able to have the thrombophelia panel of tests done? That way they can see if there are any slight anomalies that may cause issues with blood. I was told - but I am not a gp - that the older you get the thicker your blood becomes and therefore taking the baby aspirin thins it a little to allow the required blood flow through especially in those really early crucial times. Wishing you all the best xxx
Hello Miracle!my husband and I are 33. I’ve had great eggs and embryos transferred which either came back BNF or short lived BFPs. We did some investigations and below is what we did:
DNA fragmentation: my husband’s DNA fragmentation was so bad that we would Bou be able to get pregnant even with IVF. He switched to a healthy lifestyle, took antibiotics for a month and did a surgical sperm retrieval (tesa)
Emma & Alice: these two tests were too expensive so I did my research and asked to doctor to prescribe antibiotics for a week (doxy) and followed it up with a strong dose of probiotic
NK: I tested and I didn’t have it but I asked the doctor to give me prednisone so I could give this round my all
MTFHR: I did some blood clotting testing and it turned out I have a gene mutation which required me to take aspirin, I also took clexane in the first couple of weeks then stopped at week 5. I have been taking both during my BFNs rounds as well so it’s not what had changed the outcome
Hope you find the above helpful. I would suggest you do everything you can before moving ahead with the remaining eggs. Good luck in your next rounds xxx
I definitely think I need to do some more research.
I’m going to look a bit more into NK cells.
It’s just a huge decision whether to do further tests or risk a transfer, adding a higher dose steroid, extra progesterone and clexane. Confused.com xx
Hi,I know exactly how you feel.When we finally got our head round to doing DE
I really thought this is it it’s our time but sadly wasn’t to be.
We are now starting our 6th DE round 😭
This time we are the ERA testing so hoping this might help but other then that everything else is always perfect,which in a way makes it even harder to except why it’s not working 😢
I did get a BFP our first DE transfer but lost at 6 weeks.
Sorry about all this. Are the embryos tested? 33 year old donor seems a bit old. I'm thinking in terms of egg quality overall. Even if embryos show as top grade, if they weren't tested it's impossible to know which ones are viable. May have to go through few transfers to hit a good one. Hopefully the other ones work. Make sure your thyroid is working properly. I've never done the NK, ERA type testing but some people swear by it. Perhaps something to look into as well. Good luck!
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