Any success at 43 with severe DOR?

[Lilly12255]

I am devastated today from my recent failure, cannot stop crying and starting to wonder is there is any hope for me with my very low ovarian reserve. Wondering if anyone with severe DOR, producing 1 or 2 mature follicles per cycle had any success? Xx

[Peony85]

Hi Lilly, I don’t have DOR but do have unexplained egg quality issues and history of poor embryo development. When I was doing research into growth hormone before my last cycle, a lot of the studies have been done in DOR and some show it helps. Have you tried or considered this? Happy to send you some of the research I came across if useful, let me know XX

[fay2399 in reply to Peony85]

Hi peony85,

I have some issues that embryo don’t get enough cells to be suitable for pgd. Do you know how to improve that? I’m 43 and try to see if I can do something 🥺

Much appreciated if you have some research there 😘🙏

[Peony85 in reply to fay2399]

Hi Fay, which stage / day do they stop growing?

[fay2399 in reply to Peony85]

Hi Peony,

So I had one AB and one BB and 2 BCs which one of them was only suitable for biopsy which returned abnormal.. the other 3 were blastocysts on day 6. Embryologist told me they don’t have enough cells for biopsy so they are frozen.. because of my previous molar pregnancy I’m looking to see if I can get 1 normal. They say because the embryos are created in lab there won’t be same kind of molar pregnancy but apparently there are many types. Anyway I cannot transfer before February so I’m planning to have another cycle. I’m trying to do my best to get a good embryo but not sure what I can really do.

I asked my dr to prescribe DHEA since it needs prescription in Australia.

Other than that I do daily 30 minutes workouts and have a healthy diet. My BMI is ok too. The only unhealthy activity I do is a coffee a day which I don’t know if I should cut it?

Any advice appreciated ❤️

[Peony85 in reply to fay2399]

These sound like good numbers! I have only ever gotten 3 blasts from any given cycle but we have known sperm DNA fragmentation issues. It is surprising to me that they said there weren’t enough cells, as once it gets to blastocyst I’ve never heard of this being an issue, at least from my clinic. Perhaps it’s worth a discussion with the embryologist.

It might be worth looking at different protocols to increase quality as each person responds differently. I seemed to have better quality on long protocol + growth hormone, but could have just been the GH.

Another thing to consider would be the embryoscope which does time lapse photography and lets the embryologist see much more of the development than they would in a single daily view. For us, this allowed them to see an embryo that had fertilized abnormally which they said they otherwise wouldn’t have seen. It also allows them to see development consistency and timing which can help them pick the better embryo xx

[fay2399 in reply to Peony85]

Thanks for the time responding me😘🙏They do have something called Geri to take video of the embryo growth..Not sure how it works, some people say day 6 embryos have higher chance of abnormality and mine they were all day 6. I have consultation next Wednesday, will ask about GH and long protocol... I’m kinda feeling all eggs inside me are abnormal 🥺

[Lilly12255 in reply to fay2399]

What is a polar pregnancy?

[fay2399 in reply to Lilly12255]

Maybe typo.. molar pregnancy is when egg doesn’t have genetic data get fertilized with 2 sperms and have 46 chromosome from male partner..the possibility is 1 in thousands pregnancy.. from those 1 percent would need chemo which was my case

[Lilly12255]

Yes, please send me the info please

[Peony85 in reply to Lilly12255]

Here are a few of the articles I came across. There are more on DOR specifically but I’m afraid I didn’t bookmark as I was looking for the poor embryo development specifically.

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

link.springer.com/article/1...

journals.lww.com/co-obgyn/A...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

rbmojournal.com/article/S14...

bmcpregnancychildbirth.biom...

[Paris1771]

Hi Lilly

Sorry that u r going through a tough situation! I dont haveDOR but have the experience of having low quality embryo and on my last cycle I just had4eggs and 2 became embryos with poor quality! They transferred both and one got implanted! She is nine months now!

I have been on Ubiquinol600mg for almost three months before ivf and been on Prednisolone and blood thinner( fragmin injections) just for my last cycle!

Man never knows what will happen but we can just try to do our best!

By the way, I was 40 when we did it!

Sending u lots of baby dusts and fingwrs crossed for your success🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

[Yehong78]

Lilly, I am 42 this year and I started my IVF from last Aug. After the doctor cancelled my first three cycles because I was not producing enough eggs (less than 5) despite using highest dosage of stim (600 IU) possible, I think I was qualified as No Ovarian Responder (NOR). But the doctor didn't change his approach and kept doing exactly the same month after month. I got really fed up and decided to take things into my own hands.

I did a lot of research and finally decided to go low dosage plus Clomid. He was not supportive and I had to change a doctor after wasting almost 10 months with him. At the same time, I started to take DHEA, Co-Q10, Vitamin D, fish oil and tumeric.

My second doctor was very open minded and her view was for me, given the chances were so low, it might as well try something rather than nothing. She also decided to go my way -- Clomid + low dosage stim -- and it worked. For this last cycle, she retrieved three eggs and only one was fertilised. She froze the 3 day embyro and transferred it the following months when my lining recovered from using Clomid. I am now 12 weeks pregnant. It indeed only takes one good egg to work!

I completely understand how you feel and I hope my own experience is helpful. Wish you the best.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Yehong78]

Thank you for responding to my post. I must also be a NOR as the maximum amount of eggs I ever got was 2. Do you think it could have worked if the first doctors has collected the small amount of eggs instead of cancelling? May I ask what meds you were taking? Do you know whether the clomid is indispensable under a low dose stimulation? I had it before and developed cysts after which I could not conceive/grow follicles for several months, so I am worried about taking this again. Xx

[Yehong78 in reply to Lilly12255]

I think the high dosage was harmful than helpful, the reason being that I did have one retrieval with the first doctor and had two eggs fertilized, but only one reached grade 2 at day 2. So, it didn't work. After the Clomid cycle, the second cycle, I also tried another cycle of high dosage stim, and had 4 folicles retrieved, only one egg (all other three were empty) and it was an abnormal egg. So, to me, my body reacts to Clomid, but not GF. And it seemed like the GF used harmed my egg quality.

The problem with IVF that I found is that to us, every cycle is different -- we are at different hormone levels, and different egg quality. And from individual to individual, we are also different. So, it is very difficult to say what works and what doesn't. You just need to understand as much as possible so that you can have meaning dicussion with your doctor to maximize your chance.

Clomid is only one kind of meds. If your body doesn't react well to it, try femara -- I didn't react to femara at all. There is always an alternative and something will work for you!

[Lilly12255 in reply to Yehong78]

What is GF? Is it Gonal F?

[Yehong78 in reply to Lilly12255]

Yes

[Jen999999]

Also look into true niagen as as supplement. It's supposed to reengergize mitochondria. My RE recommended it at 600.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Is niagen the same as PQq?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

No it's not. Look a NAD+ research

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Could you please send me the list of supplements you are taking?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

Sure

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

If I already take Ubiquinol, should I still take Niagen on top?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

I am, I take 900 of ubiquinol broken into 3 doses and 600 of tru niagen in 2 doses

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Did your Recommend 900 of ubiquinol? I am asking as the book everyone reads says 600, but that book was not done by a professional

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

I was told you could take more than 1000, so we settled on 900

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Could you please share the brand? I found something called Niacin on iherb when searching for niagen. Is that the correct product? uk.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-N...

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

Niacin is a vitamin. The product is NAD+, the brand is true niagen

[Jen999999 in reply to Jen999999]

Melatonin 3mg

Selenium 200mcg

Tru Niagen 900mg

Revgenetics reservatol 250mg

Nordic naturals prenatal DHA

Nordic naturals ultimate omega

Methyl folate

N-Acetyl-l-cysteine

Acai 1000mg

NeoQ10

Thorne basic prenatal

Bromelain

Liquid vitamin D3

Super r lipoic acid

Zinc picolinate

Vitamin E

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

thank you for sharing. Sounds like a great mix. how much N-Acetyl-l-cysteine do you take?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

900mg

I'm also adding NMN from Revgenetics. It's crazy expensive but restored fertility in mice so....lol

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

But you are not a mouse!!!

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

Understood...but desperate times...lol

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Tru Niagen: is that after food or on an empty stomac?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

I take one pill with breakfast and two after dinner

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Nothing at lunch? Just received my box today, so I missed breakfast dose

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

I take the coq10 3x a day

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

Hi Jen,

I received the True Niagen (300mg capsules) but on the bottle it says 1 per day, don't exceed the recommended dose. I think you take 3 x 300mg per day. Is that safe?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

I'm not a doctor, I can't advise as to safety or whether it will actually work. read the studies regarding the ingredients and discuss with your Dr as to safety etc.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

My doc does not believe in any supplement, so I can't ask. Found some studies (on mice predominantly) but nothing that speaks about dosage. Do you have a link that you could send me on this?

[Jen999999 in reply to Lilly12255]

First, you can always talk to your Dr. if you feel you can't...you should find someone you can communicate with. I changed RE until I found someone willing to try everything. You have to be able to trust your Dr...if you can't...I'd more on.

As far as a link, I've read so much stuff I don't remember. I recall there was a Dr. I read about, David Sinclair who took a gram a day, but I'm not sure. I definitely am not giving medical advice, as I have absolutely no qualifications.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Jen999999]

It’s ok, I know you are a patient like me

[articsnowfox]

As with other commenters, I also recommend DHEA (micronized, 75 mg/day for at least 2/3 months). I had success at 43 and I think it was partly due to that. Human growth hormone also improved a friend's blastocysts - she is 44 years with super low AMH, and ubiquinol is also something else worth considering. Also, for me, early retrieval was something that might have improved the quality of my eggs: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Lilly12255 in reply to articsnowfox]

Thank you. Could you please share your meds and protocol? Xx

[Jen999999 in reply to articsnowfox]

I'm definitely interested in this protocol as well.

[articsnowfox]

Hi there, I was on the long protocol, with synarel and gonal-F but i have read that menopur is a better stimulation agent for older women somewhere (but not sure where). My AMH is pretty good for my age so that is why they kept me on the same protocol as the IVF cycles I did 3 years ago to get my first son - I don't know if it is suitable for women with low AMH and this would be something your doctor would need to discuss with you. My first cycle at 42 when trying for my second kid was a bust, and my second was so much better once I had been taking DHEA for a few months and also after having an early egg retrieval. Let me know if you need any further info!

[Lilly12255 in reply to articsnowfox]

What dose of Gonal F were uou taking?

[Lilly12255]

What dose of Gonal F were you taking?

[articsnowfox in reply to Lilly12255]

It was quite low - 175 IU/day for 4 days, 200 IU/day for 4 days and 225 IU/day for 4 days - my doc actually let me choose the doses! In the previous cycle that was a bust, the doses were a bit higher and I wondered if that had something to do with the bad outcome. With that first cycle I got 11 eggs but only 5 fertilised (ending up with a 4BB blastocyst) and with the second one, I got fewer eggs (7) but 6 fertilised (ending up with 4AA and 4AB blastocysts).