Criterias to discard embryos

[Lilly12255]

Hi ladies,

During IVF, embryos get discarded. Clinics might have different level of demands on the embryos to transfer or freeze them. I think that it would be very useful for each of us to know whether the criteria used for her clinic are in line with average or very harsh. Indeed, a clinic with very harsh criteria will probably have a high pregnancy rate per embryo transferred but they will discard many viable embryos. And if you are in a situation where every embryo counts because you have very few, the selection process can lead to loosing your chances to conceive your own eggs.

I suggest ladies ask their clinic what the criterias are for day 3 freezing and day 5 freezing and then the same for transfer and write it on this post. We could then work put an average from all the responses. Xx

[Ranchu90]

I truly like your post 👍 My clinic discarded 1 embryo of CC quality when I can see that other clinics are actually transferring them. I will have to ask them on our next appointment to explain what are the criteria’s. I somehow trust them but just want to understand this process.

[KiboXX in reply to Ranchu90]

Clinics will normally do a transfer of a CC grade on a fresh cycle but they won’t freeze them as they don’t freeze/thaw well x

[Lilly12255 in reply to KiboXX]

Thanks. Could you please share your clinic criteria for freezing day 3 and day 5? X

[KiboXX in reply to Lilly12255]

My clinic only freeze day 5 embryos. I don’t know the exact criteria unfortunately but I do trust that the embryologists are experts at making these decisions and I’m not. I had three consecutive cycles where I didn’t have anything good enough to freeze. It’s hard but I would rather that than the disappointment of an embryo not surviving the process x

[Lilly12255 in reply to Ranchu90]

Thank you for answering. Please share your clinic‘s criteria when you have them and let us both for day 3 or day 5 as these are different I think.

[Purplewitch18 in reply to Ranchu90]

I just asked the embryologist about all this. She said if both eggs fertillise but arent top grade i could have both transferred on day 2. If both are good then they will leave both to day 5 then choose the best one and freeze the other. If only one fertilises it will be transferred on day 2. I said that i didnt want anything disgarded unessassarily x

[Lilly12255 in reply to Purplewitch18]

Thanks for sharing. Do they not freeze day 3?

[Purplewitch18 in reply to Lilly12255]

No, they would talk about transferring early rather than freezing. They only freeze day 5 as if they didnt get to day 5 they are unlikely to survive the freeze and thaw.

[Hidden]

My clinic said they only froze 5BB and above grade embryos. I didn't worry because I had enough embryos but I recon that is harsh. They said though that grades lower than that do not thaw well so there is really no point freezing it.

The said if it was a fresh transfer they will transfer a 5BC or even CC but won't freeze it.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you very much for contributing to this post. Could you please specify if you are talking about day 3 or day 5 embryos and if you can get the info for the other that would be great!

[Hidden in reply to Lilly12255]

The info is for the day 5.

[Solly-44 in reply to Hidden]

Wow, 5BB is really high! We had 11 frosties, including one I’m 18 weeks pregnant with and none of them were that high 🙈

Also all of ours have frozen and thawed perfectly.

[Hidden in reply to Solly-44]

I think so too, I had 18 embryos, 8 5BB's, 4 lower than D and the rest combination of B and C.. They transferred four of the BB's to me and my surrogate (2 each) and froze four.

They discarded the rest. That's 10 embryos thrown out! Of which 6 can be transferred fresh according to them. That's a lot, I didn't give any thought until now 😑

[Lilly12255 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for sharing this. It would be great if you could check their policy on day 3.

[Lilly12255 in reply to Solly-44]

Yes, that is exactly what I fear. Some clinics put the bar too high and discard viable embryos. Could you please check what day 3 embryos your clinic would not freeze anf share as your clinic seems to be more sensible than others

[Lynnr54 in reply to Hidden]

Wow, that’s crazy high! 2 of my 3 that were frozen were BC grades (I think 2 and 3). They both defrosted fine (though one was a chemical and the other a BFP). My third frostie I think was a 5BB but it was a day 6 which my clinic day means it has less chance of success than a lower grade day 5 frostie. Interestingly that one defrosted the least well and lost quite a high proportion of cells in the thaw process. It also ended up being graded a 4 BB on transfer. But that one was successful and I now have a cheeky 12 month old as a result. It’s crazy how the criteria are so different at different places!

[ttcemmie]

This is something I've been thinking about too, Lilly. Especially as my clinic discarded everything that didn't get to day 5 blastocyst and I can see others on here with day 3 embryos transferred. It worries me as I don't have a lot of eggs.

[Lilly12255 in reply to ttcemmie]

I am in the same situation and I want to get data on this. Once I have calculated an average, each of us can decide to request her clinic to freeze lower quality than the standard threshold. This could save our only chance to have a child in the case of low ovarian reserve so I feel it’s very important.

[ttcemmie in reply to Lilly12255]

Very important! I agree. xx

[MissSaoPaulo]

I was told I had 2 'good' and 3 'intermediate' 5 day blasts. All frozen. We transferred one good and one intermediate, which I saw from the paperwork were 4ab and 4bc, they didn't really talk much about grading.

Both thawed well and we now have one baby

[CLDxxx]

My clinic froze one of my day 3’s along with my day 5’s and also my 5CC blastocyst.

[Lilly12255]

Thank you for contributing to the post. Can you please share more info on the day 3 embryo frozen? Were you given any ratings? How many cells did it have? Any fragmentation? Was it symmetrical?

Btw, my clinic did not give me much info on my day 3 embryo but after requesting the lab summary i got the details. You can probably do the same if they kept you in the dark.xx

[CLDxxx in reply to Lilly12255]

It has 8 cells and they said when they thaw it for transfer they would see if it develops to blastocyst. If it doesn’t, they would use another.

I’m having my transfer tomorrow and got a call today to say that they hadn’t thawed that one as the instructions were missed which I’m not overly pleased about as what’s the point in completing a consent form if they’re not acknowledging it.

But, hopefully the one they transfer is all I need 🤞xx

[Lilly12255 in reply to CLDxxx]

Good luck! I will keep my fingers crossed for you! Xx

[CLDxxx in reply to Lilly12255]

Thank you lovely 😊 xxx

[Hidden]

My clinic don't freeze on day 3, only on day 5 x

[AliceMoonpie]

We had 2 "poor quality" embryos left over which we were told were not of good enough quality to freeze as part of our NHS cycle. We froze them anyway on ethical grounds and had them transferred a year or so later. The doctor who was doing the FET gave them a 10% chance of pregnancy, and wierdly was really keen that I only had them put back one at a time because of the high chance of twins. We had both put back and neither took so I don't know what to think about the doctor's stats. But, he gave embryos which we were told to discard a 10% chance of implantation which is a lot higher than I expected.

[Lilly12255 in reply to AliceMoonpie]

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like a bug waste to discard a 10% chance!

[Vegemite]

Here here!

I have demanded conversations with the embryologist before anything gets discarded and put it in writing as well.

Disgusting that some clinics discard without a conversation... disgusting! I’ve asked and got some vague reply that I wouldn’t understand