Constant accidents help needed for 5 yr old

[Rabbit85]

Hi

My daughter has basically never got potty training. We did initial training when I thought she was ready at 2yrs & 9months old, we thought initially that she understood but just kept getting distracted. Then she started preschool and it seemed to get worse so I took her to the doctor's who agreed to send her for scans. They all came back as ok for bladder kidney etc.

Then I didn't get any further we went on holiday with family and we went back to nappies as my mum pointed out that we were all me and my daughter and hubby exhausted from the constant accidents. My daughter seemed happier and didn't ask for knickers or why she was in nappies and other kids at preschool weren't. Preschool were supportive but in hindsight I think I should of pushed for referral to incontinence nurse then.

So we stayed in nappies for about 8 months then tried potty training again. Just after she had turned 4. We still had all same issues and still do agree just turned 5.

We finally got referral to incontinence nurse but that's now delayed with lock down.

Issues include refusing to go to toilet to try for wee, getting off quickly so not really trying, wetting in small or large amounts and hiding and lies about being wet, has battle to take off nappy in the morning which is always full. Also regularly has poo accidents.

We've been trying to make sure she has drinks more regularly now we're stuck in, as at school she would go with full bottle and come home with full bottle. Tried setting her challenge to drink and school tried remind her but didn't make much difference. This just seems to have increased the accidents but I know that drinking more is important so we will keep this up.

Today I found her soaking wet and soar I just want to give up put her in nappies. Generally I'm goodat preserving but I think I'm getting to the end of my tether. So I'm looking anyone else experiences, or suggestions or insight.

Thanks

[Alicass]

Hi

We've been through a similar experience but we're coming out the other side. Have you looked in the ERIC website for help? You could try calling your GP or local Paediatric Continence Nurse just until the lockdown is over.

It'll be worth getting her checked out for constipation. If she's constipated she may not have the feeling of needing to go to the toilet.

It's taken us 6 years to finally see light at the end of the tunnel. I understand how you feel. It's extremely stressful and unless you've been through it people don't understand what it's like.

We've disimpacted with Movicol five times since December 2018 and he's spent 2.5 years on Senekot under a useless Paediatrician. Had a toilet plan in place, been through lots of emotions, lots of washing powder, talked to lots of people, chucked numerous pairs of pants away, cried, shouted etc etc. I never thought we'd see the end back in 2014 but I think we nearly there.

Get your daughter checked out and take it from there. Xx

[StellaA]

Switching back and forth from nappies to knickers can be confusing, especially if you've done it before.

Does she ever ask to have another nappy put on when you are changing her out her night nappies?

My granddaughter was doing this sneakily by pretending she had a sore tummy, when what she really wanted was a dry nappy on to stay in bed watching her ipad.

Eventually I asked her if she wanted daytime nappies until school starts back and she have me the biggest cuddle and a kiss, I let her pick what colour of nappies she wanted, they arrived on Monday and she couldn't be happier.

[Slice in reply to StellaA]

The question here is why she wants the nappy in the daytime. If she's using it for a toilet because she doesn't want to stop what she's doing on her Ipad, this is setting a very bad precedent for what may be , believe it or not, an addiction to the Ipad. There are already many cases of this in kids getting addicted to video games. This to kids peeing their pants because they don't want to stop, behavioral changes changes in eating and many of the same things a drug or alcohol addiction. I would doubt tha this is the case at 6, but don't let it get there.

[StellaA in reply to Slice]

She wanted the nappies because having accidents was upsetting her, she wanted a break from toilet training but didn't know how to tell me.

This was around a year in from her being totally dependent on drynites day and night having never used the toilet, to being in control of poo and mostly dry during the day, but as she got dryer during the day her bedwetting got far worse, and I had to get her special needs nappies for at night, her daytime dryness was already getting worse by the time the first covid restrictions where introduced here, it was getting impossible to find her drynites from the supermarket so nappies where the best option for her.

[Slice]

I would agree that she needs to be checked out medically. However, does she ever identify that she needs to, or has trouble going? As I read it further, I would talk to her nd see if she can help you understand why she doesn't want to use the toilet. It can still be fear of it, it could be that some part of going to the bathroom is hurting her. Maybe she is having constipation and it hurts to get it out. That may also be why she won't drink, because her bladder is full and she's having trouble emptying it. Try to get her to talk and encourage it with letting her know that she can tell you anything without getting in trouble or you getting angry. Remember, especially at that age what they think IS the truth. If the bowel issues are ruled out, I would suggest evaluation for learning challenges.

I exchange discussions through a forum with a young adult who had high functioning autism. She was a very bright young woman who had sensory issues, many of the things leading to sensory overload , often times ending in wetting accidents even at 20-21, others because she just couldn't remember to go.

[StellaA in reply to Slice]

I saw this while looking for another old post.There's every chance I started replying to you and lost it, Sophie is 11 now, she switched back to knickers and pads during the Easter break just there.

She has been under the continence team for 2 years now, rest assured she has been well and truly 'checked out' both medically and psychologically.

She has an extremely under developed bladder, being both small and weak, since she was never toilet trained, she also has sensitivity issues, the doctor thinks this is due to unchecked uti's when she was young.

These have damaged the tissue inside her bladder and make it painful for her to hold even small amounts of wee, she says she constantly feels desperate to pee and has terrible anxiety about wetting herself.

She is not constipated, she was never able to have solid bowel movements due to her food allergies but that is under control now.

She is what would be classically called 'retarded', or developmentally delayed, she doesn't have any specific disability, she has just stuffed from a decade of having an unfit mother, and inept social services doing nothing about it.

[Slice in reply to StellaA]

Well, glad to hear you finally got some answers. I guess you can say that there is some good news here and that is that she has only had the UTI's for the most part. Had she had multiple kidney infections, she might not be around now. I suspect you know this already, but I'll say it anyway. What's important now is working on her self esteem and confidence. It's also helping her to do as much as she can to manage this herself. That means being able to change herself when needed and keep herself clean. She may need a reminder from time to time that this is not her fault and that it is something she can't help. The more control she has on the situation, the more confidence that she will build in dealing with this. Good luck to both of you! 😀

[StellaA in reply to Slice]

I'm actually quite glad she was back in nappies for a year, it wasn't a case of completely giving up with toileting, we where doing bladder training the full time which is far easier with nappies, getting her to drink a pint of water then hold her bladder till she literally can't anymore, several times a day, has made her far more confident about being able to make it to the loo, she hasn't been for a check up for a few months but going by the weight of her nappies her bladder capacity is almost normal now but she still has leakage issues, hence the pads.Her mental wellbeing has been a bit of a roller coaster in the last year, but improved after going back to school after Christmas as a 'vulnerable child' she flourished in the smaller class and revealed that she had been getting bullied by her classmates, both at school and online, which is now mostly resolved.

Hygiene is still a problem and I'm working on a solution for that, as is bedwetting which is continuing to be a major issue, and I suspect might still be a problem into adulthood.

[Slice in reply to StellaA]

What is she using for day and night? It's hard to know what to suggest as right now it also depends a lot on where her cognitive levels are. During the day, can she wear something like Drynites, and be relied on to change herself when necessary? For nighttime, can she be taught how to put a diaper/nappie on herself? The Drynites should be fine for one full wetting if she is aware of it and can change. Without being too specific, I'm wondering what the bullying is about. No explanation needed, but one of the things I'm wondering about is whether some of it has to do with the bladder issues. Is she being diapered by the nurse or someone else at school? Could that be adding to it? Again if possible, her dealing with it herself will do a great deal to empower her and to help her feel more like the other kids. No criticism meant by it. One of the other things to consider is that at 11, she may be starting to get to where she is concerned with fitting in with the others in terms of what she wears. That may be something that will be hard to do and still minimize the fact that she is wearing protection under her clothes. The best bets are loose fitting pants and long tops that will minimize the chance of gaps between top and pants (protection showing). One of the other things that may helo a lot if she is able to change herself and the like, is either dresses, or tops and skirts to make changing much easier for her.

[StellaA in reply to Slice]

That's too much for me to write out in one go, and some of it is a bit personal to put here, I've sent you a message

[StellaA]

Hi, Rabbit, how have you and your daughter gotten on over the last year?Have you had a breakthrough with getting her using the toilet?

How has she been getting on at school, well while theyve been opened anyway.

Hope you and your husband are keeping well.

Xx