Stopping Kidney Disease (book by Lee Hull) questions

[Swimmingpooldeck]

Hi, I've been recently diagnosed with stage 3a ckd - - been reading everything I can. Has anyone ever read the online information from Lee Hull - Stopping Kidney Disease? I'm not sure what to think of his work - - he seems to make a good case for plant based protein - - never animal protein - - references lots of studies and talks about ways to reduce the load on kidneys, including nitrogen, ph levels, and such as being vital. anyone care to discuss Hull's ideas? I found his information while trolling on line - - so far free downloads of chapters of his book. really looking for dietary guidance. thanks - btw - i'm female, 71

[Hidden]

Hi

Not at all familiar with this author. However, with regards to your dietary concerns try the DaVita website at davita.com to find a ton of recipes for maintaining your kidneys. Each recipe gives you the breakdown of all potentially harmful sources like sodium, potassium, phosphorus, protein, calcium and while you don't want to eliminate these items you can control your intake. Diet alone is not enough. Have a consistent way to exercise that keeps you fit and healthy. Watch your medications and dosages. Know what drugs you are prescribed how they affect your kidneys. Ask questions and keep asking until you understand the information. If your doctor(s) aren't forthcoming, find a new one who understands that you are in charge and have the final decision. If a doctor tells you "not to worry" find a new doctor immediately. Remember it's your kidneys and your health.

There is no cure for CKD. There above things I mentioned will help you control the decline and slow it down. Remember this, CKD is not a stand-alone illness. Find out what caused it, ie: diabetes, hypertension, etc. and do what you have to and take control.

[Takrang63 in reply to Hidden]

The diets which Davita posts are not completely Kidney Friendly. Be careful with their recipes... Remember... If you get better... They loose business.

[orangecity41]

I am 76 year old male with ckd level 3. I have not read the book, but looked at the synopsis I personally will stick with diet given to me by my Doctor.

Let your Doctor know of any diet or medicine change.

Agree with Mr Kidney, there are resources for you on trusted web sites like Davita.

[Bunkin]

I think it's great you're thinking outside the box. I look at everything and have recently started a supplement to help remove creatinine from my body. Just had my lab and all my numbers are better! i found foods recommended to me by my doctors assistant were high in creatine. Always wise to research! Keep up the good work! Prayers for you. God can do anything!

[Sally10255 in reply to Bunkin]

Hi, can you share what supplement it is? You mentioned foods that were high, So assume you avoid those foods? Great luck and thank you.

[Bunkin in reply to Sally10255]

I take several supplements. The latest is Chitosan that removes creatinine from your system. I made a graph with all my labs and it seemed when my GFR was highest , my creatinine was lowest so I researched how to remove creatinine. I found Chitosan. Also, meats and poultry and even fish have high creatine. I had been eating tuna fish like it was going out of style because the doctors assistant put it on my list. Tuna is one of the highest in creatine. I basically cut out meat, fish and poultry except maybe once a week. The supplements I take, I got from a program I follow called The Kidney Disease Solution. All of these things have served me well the past 2 years. And of course, I pray. That's the most important thing. Knowing God is beside you. Prayers for you. God can do anything!

[Sally10255 in reply to Bunkin]

Thank you, yes I also do Chitosan. I am not eating fish because of either the potassium, phosphorus amounts. Really not sure on tuna yet. Been looking at the kidney diet, but I was doing low carb and some is quite different. I believe a lot of damage is caused by stones or medications. So many prescription meds are hard on kidney. My kidney specialist does not like statin medications It is hard to know exactly what to do.

[orangecity41 in reply to Sally10255]

sally 10255. My Doctor also does not prescribe statins for patients with CKD. Zetia (ezetimibe) was prescribed for me along with Omega 3, and is working according to blood test results.

[Sally10255 in reply to orangecity41]

I asked about Zetia and they said that was more for triglycerides and that wasn’t my problem. But when I see kidney doctor will discuss more. I exercise hard everyday and eat so wisely. Thank you for responding. I do take plant sterols.

[orangecity41 in reply to Sally10255]

I do have high triglycerides and elevated cholesterol.

[curleytop1 in reply to Sally10255]

HI SALLY10255, WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR WISE DIET CONSISTS OF AS I THINK THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR ALL OF US (PLEASE SEE MY REPLY TO BUNKIN ABOUT THIS SUBJECT).

[Sally10255 in reply to curleytop1]

Hi, I have eaten low carb for quite a while. But do not go crazy on meat and cheese. I am dairy free extremely watch sodium, well u fee allowed amount of 2000 mg a day. I watch potassium very close and phosphorus. So not eating fish I had. Limit bananas,eat strawberries, apples. Lots of lower sugar veggies. Trying totally stop peanut butter. Limit nuts. I eat lean meats, a great deal of cardio and st least 100 ounces of water a day. My kidney doctor thinks I had a kidney stone that was in there causing damage for awhile. It dropped down 6 mm. I have a stent which is helping kidney. I am not an expert by any means. My numbers were off, had an ultra sound, kidney was swollen and not draining, saw kidney doctor. Then the stone dropped down low. It was a weird chain of events. Had outpatient surgery but U had passed 6 mm stone, so doctor explored kidney and put in stent. Most people want them out. Mine is really helping so I am keeping it a bit. So one kidney is slacking g, the other totally fine.

[curleytop1 in reply to Bunkin]

Hi Bunkin, I always read your regular contributions with interest as we are the same age, 76, I think! I have noticed that you take supplements, which in the UK are not recommended, at least by the doctors I have consulted.

I am not told any of the relevant figures (just that I am stage 3 and to lower my potassium level) and am interested in what you do eat instead of meat, fish and poultry as the other proteins are also high in potassium - i.e.. cheeses (except plain cottage cheese), eggs and legumes (peas, beans, lentil etc.), even cow's milk cannot be taken freely! For me it is a job to know what to eat, or to have an occasional change of diet as the carbohydrate foods, breads, pasta, rice, nuts etc. are high in calories (I have been told to loose weight, which has always been a slow process for me, although I am 40lbs lighter than when diagnosed in 2015). I often feel hungry and find it difficult not to overeat to fill up.

Will be very pleased if you, or anyone else, could reply to this for the benefit of all of us. Best wishes - Curleytop1.

[Bunkin in reply to curleytop1]

Actually I am 56. I eat eggs, cereals, rice milk, rice products. No nuts! Shrimp is low in creatine so shrimp fried rice is good. You can find that on Davita. I also eat peanut butter but in small amounts. I was eating a lot of tuna til I looked it up and found it high in creatine. It was one of the foods my doctors assistant told me was ok. I just research a lot of things and take bits of knowledge from everywhere I can find. My doctor has not been much help in terms of diet. I also have an app where I input my food for the day which keeps potassium and phosphorous in range. If I can help you further, let me know!

[curleytop1 in reply to Bunkin]

Thank you for your fast reply, Bunkin, sorry about getting your age wrong. I will have to look into the Davita site as we do not seem to have the equivalent information in UK.

I also have had no real help with diet from my General Practitioner so have done all research from the internet and found this site. I also work from lists given out by Renal Departments of various hospitals in UK, Canada and Australia, using only those items they all agree are low in potassium - the lists are not very long........

With best wishes - Curleytop1.

[Bunkin in reply to curleytop1]

i use Davita recipes for some things, just lately I pretty much stopped eating meat, chicken, most fish. May have it once a week. You're prob fine tho using Davita as you're stage 3

[curleytop1 in reply to Bunkin]

Thanks for your further advice Bunkin.

[lovinglife62 in reply to Bunkin]

Hi Bunkin

Please let me know what app you use to log your food in to keep potassium and phosphorous in range.

[Bunkin in reply to lovinglife62]

Hi, I was using kidney APPetite but when I upgraded my phone, it wasn’t compatible and I think they are doing away with it. It was great. Haven’t found any others. Told nephrologist but he was no help. If I run across a good one I’ll let you know(you might try finding it in case any thing changed)

[Bunkin in reply to curleytop1]

Curlytop1, are you on dialysis?

[curleytop1 in reply to Bunkin]

No, I am at stage 3 (but have not been told any figures only that they change all the time and that people stress about them).

I have also been told to loose weight and lower my potassium intake (without having been given any dietary advice or other ways to do this!). In UK we do not have information re potassium printed on food packaging so I check everything suitable for a general weight loss diet and have memorised which fruits and vegetables are lowest in potassium, and work out meals from this information!

[Bunkin in reply to curleytop1]

That's pretty much what I do. The app is helpful tho. I am end stage. Was put on transplant list in June but have no donor and the wait is about 6 years for a cadaver kidney.

[curleytop1 in reply to Bunkin]

I have just seen this earlier reply, Bunkin, and assume you are on dialysis while waiting for a transplant. Will keep you in my thoughts and hope you will have some luck and not have to wait so long for a suitable kidney. Best wishes - Curleytop1.

[Bunkin in reply to curleytop1]

Thanks. I am not on dialysis yet. I am doing all I can to keep from it! Prayers are appreciated!

[Swimmingpooldeck in reply to Bunkin]

prayers to you

[lovinglife62 in reply to Bunkin]

I'll be praying for you. I know with God all things are possible.....only believe! You are so valuable to Lord Jesus. When we look through the pains and trials of this life its hard to see how much we are loved and how valuable we are to Him. That's why it takes faith in the eternal rather trusting the temporal. Hang in there and don't give up.

Blessings for the best!

[Bunkin in reply to lovinglife62]

Thank you so much. I can sure use prayers. Just had lab done Thursday, waiting on results. Will be praying for you also. God can do anything😀😀😀

[lovinglife62 in reply to curleytop1]

You are strong and keep up the good work in investigating and remembering what's best for you. I appreciate your initiative to live strong and healthy!

[sam221 in reply to curleytop1]

I'm told that the body absorbs plant/veg potassium at about 30% vs other sources. It isn't about potassium amount is is about absorbtion rates..

[orangecity41 in reply to curleytop1]

Curleytop1: The pre-dialysis diet prescribed for me is basically to control phosphorus and sodium and less for potassium as my levels did not indicate needed to restrict it. Basically it is 6 oz of meat or meat substitute a day in 1 0z servings, 5 servings of grain in certain measure (mostly 1/2 cup) 1 serving of dairy (generally 12 cup), 2 servings of vegetables, 6 servings of fruit/juice in various amounts, 5-6 servings of grain/starch group in various measure.

It may not be for everyone and is based on CKD plus other levels.

[curleytop1 in reply to orangecity41]

Thank you for your reply, orangecity41. I am interested that it seems a very precise diet, and hope that you keep stable on it. Best wishes for you - Curleytop1.

[orangecity41 in reply to curleytop1]

I meant to say for listed dairy can have 1/2 cup. Although cottage cheese is a meat substitute and does not fall into dairy group, same with cheese, so do have some options.

[Blackie57 in reply to Bunkin]

can you maybee give us the treatment u using tnx

[Frankie03 in reply to Bunkin]

Hi Bunkin could you please tell me the name of the supplement you are using to reduce your creatine. Thanks

[Frankie03 in reply to Bunkin]

Please ignore that request you have already answered

[Shanshang in reply to Bunkin]

May i ask which type of Chitosan you take. There are so many variations...

[1788]

Bunkin....can I ask what that supplement is? And I agree personal research is good!

[Bunkin in reply to 1788]

It is Chitosan that removes Creatinine from your system. I also take many others as I follow a program called the kidney disease solution which gives diet, supplements and exercise and relaxation. I also pray, which is definitely the most important thing. Hope this helps you!

[1788 in reply to Bunkin]

Thank you Bunkin. I will take a look at that book. I agree, prayer is good!

[Sally10255]

Hi, I am going to look up the author. In my time dealing with this, I have found many family gp doctors aren’t overly knowledgeable. Now my kidney doctor I am sure is. We haven’t talk a great deal yet about diet except if I eat something or drink something that had dark green leaves, I take a Tums...something about the calcium. My doctor eats spinach every day in a salad and takes a Tums.I have changed my diet a bit from reading. He thinks my damage was caused by a stone that was in my kidney and had been there for awhile. It was 6 mm, I had no idea it was there except numbers started changing, some suggested scans, then it just happened to drop down and caused major discomfort. It was 6 mm, it ended up passing on its own. I had same day surgery scheduled, had no idea it had passed, but doctorooked around kidney and then also inserted a stent. That has helped me go more, also drinking st least 100 oz of water a day. I would love to discuss this new Info with you.

[janemery]

Three years ago I went to the Dr because I had a backache. Now living in Portugal, where I am getting excellent treatment my Dr said that he wanted me to have an MRI and they discovered that I had a tumor on my right kidney. Within five days the Alvor Hospital in the Algarve sent their "Dream team " of oncology Drs from Lisbon and removed my right kidney. The tumor was cancer. They kept me in the private hospital for three or four nights, I can't remember how long, and I went home feeling pretty good. I was very lucky because when I returned for my post appointment I was told how lucky I was that they had removed the tumor before it had reached my blood system. I feel so grateful to those Drs and how wonderful they were to move so quickly.

I have had my ups and downs as far as my numbers go. I did not know what to eat and this was a problem for me. I started reading chapters of the book by Lee Hull "Stopping Kidney Dease".This book has been a very good place to go for information. I have followed his recommendations and started to feel better. I still had my up and down numbers when I went for my blood tests, and after about six months I started feeling better. I still needed to know what I could eat. I hated not knowing and the worry it was causing. then, I was told by my excellent kidney Dr that going to a nutritionist would be a good idea for me. I made an appointment with the excellent Dr and she took a sample of my hair and put it on a computer the size of a phone and the results were sent to Germany to a lab that was able to tell me exactly what I was missing in my body. It gave me a diet that was made just for me and also recommended supplements that have really helped me. I found that taking turmeric has really helped my lack of energy and also the supplements. Knowing what is going on in MY BODY has really helped. I now have more energy, and my numbers have gone from 32-48 so I am feeling better. My husband and I have been able to continue on traveling and enjoying our retirement. We retired to Portugal eight years ago, and I believe that the private Hospital and the excellent Drs in Portugal probably has saved my life.I feel that my treatment in Portugal is far superior to the treatment I would have gotten in the U.S. since in the U.S. they would not have given me the MRI I needed.

They would give me pills for the pain and sent me home and tell me to stay off my feet for a few days and it would go away.

By the way, my excellent surgery, hospital etc stay was covered by my Alliance Insurance has been wonderful and my bill was only $ 400.00. I feel that we all need to stay informed and do not let the Drs put you off.

I hope you feel better when you know more of what to expect and Lee Hull's book is very good. In my opinion.

[lovinglife62 in reply to janemery]

Will you share with me the name of the test you took using a strand of hair and the name of the lab it was sent to? Was the move to Portugal expensive? I do not like the healthcare, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, nor the FDA in America. They just do not have our lives in best interest for us. These companies dictate what is studied at the universities and how doctors can treat patients and releasing medications that are toxic; knowing poor health and even death can be caused by the meds. I realize some meds help, but guiding people into better health in the first place would make a world of difference. We get general notices and books on healthy living, but doctors really do no take the time to drive the need for diet change home to the patient who in a few years may have life threatening diseases. More Love would take care of this matter!

[lovinglife62]

I've been trolling the web also. Reading a lot and talking with certified staff at Health food stores. I find Lee Hull's online info and his emails such a blessing. It's great info that I find supportive of most of what's out there, except he goes deeper in giving resolutions to improve and slow down the progression of the damage. Animal protein takes a toll on the kidneys and how meat is processed and cooked these days its just to hard to deal with the toxins. It's hard on a healthy or semi-healthy person let alone a person having difficulties in cleansing the body of toxins. Inflammation from toxins in our gut/intestines is the root cause of our diseases throughout our body. All the different medications are not made to resolve our root causes of our diseases. We have to take drastic initiatives, such as diet change......high fiber/low protein....full of fruits and veggies and drink nutritionally so that we can eat live food rather than more dead food and desert food. It's up to each individual person to make the difference.

I'll tell you this, after our first appointment with the Nephrology Doctor they did not offer actual resolves, but rather said lower blood pressure and balance sugar. Just like you and the rest of us, we have to search out help and understand information to make a change for the best.

May you be extremely blessed in your efforts to hault further damage!

[OMm123 in reply to lovinglife62]

Lee Hull is also selling a product called Albutrix which he slowly reveals .. Certainly read for information , but do not follow blindly as it may not suit your condition.

[Contessia62]

I've started reading That same book and it has a lot of information that I feel is from experience

[OMm123 in reply to Contessia62]

Lee Hull is also selling a product called Albutrix which he slowly reveals .. Certainly read for information , but do not follow blindly as it may not suit your condition.

[ckd3jw]

Hello!

I've read all the free chapters on line and I too was impressed with the case that Lee Hull made. So much so that I bought his book and I'm glad, glad, glad that I did. I can go on forever about it but let's put it this way...

BUY HIS BOOK TODAY!!!

I'm stage 3 CKD. Was diagnosed in 2009. My eGFR has been slowly declining. I'm going to do what he says and change the way I eat, completely. If you act now you will do well I'll bet. I only received his book the days ago and I'm reading it everyday. He had been through the mill and I trust and believe what he says... Massive research effort.

BUY THE BOOK! GOOD LUCK AND BEST WISHES TO YOU. I'm 65.

Sincerely,

Jim

[OMm123 in reply to ckd3jw]

Lee Hull is also selling a product called Albutrix which he slowly reveals .. Certainly read for information , but do not follow blindly as it may not suit your condition.

[Zakcho in reply to ckd3jw]

Hi Hope you are well. Just read your opinion and advise. I am stage 3b since 2005. Just curious, how are you dong now by following this book. Have your condition improved , stopped or slowing? Many thanks. Zakaria

[Cowtown]

I read the free book; bought the book online. Started following his recommendations 2 months ago. In those 2 months my eGfr has gone from 47 to 64. There is no help in Canada for anyone with Stage 3 ckd. You are told to wait while you’re kidneys slowly fail so you can either be put on dialysis or put on a donor list. Neither was an acceptable answer. Cutting sodium and lowering potassium did nothing for my kidneys however cutting out ALL animal protein and most grains has done wonders so far. I haven’t purchased the albutrix, however you can go to the Stopping kidney Disease Facebook page to see results from many people around the world that are also following his lifestyle in hopes of preventing kidney failure.

[Zakcho in reply to Cowtown]

Hi Hope you are well. Just read your opinion and advise. I am stage 3b since 2005. Just curious, how are you dong now by following this book. Have your condition improved , stopped or slowing? Many thanks. Zakaria

[Oldearkie_83]

Keep reading and talking with your medical care team. I have learned to be very careful of those who make a business of someone's misfortune. That is not a small group: lawyers, doctors, mechanics, police, septic tank pumpers, etc. Notice that DaVita is in the dialysis business, not keeping people off dialysis. Ever wonder why the DaVita diets include red meat which is harmful to failing and good kidneys? "Trust, then verify". Get as much information as you can so you can make informed decisions. I bought and read Lee Hull's book. It was my starting place for a vegan diet. A month later I'm continuing the transition from a "see food" diet. Stay with us but realize that you will come across contradictory information and suggestions, even here.

[Blackknight1989]

so I’ll be the contrarian. I have been stage 4 since 1996. Over 26 years. Diet, for me matter not. Only the keeping the protein in check. To the OP, in 2021, due to COVID I lost my small business I had run for 30 years and all income. At age 55 i along with my 53 year old wife and 17 year old daughter was homeless, yes evicted by a local bank DESPITE using a HUD approved agency to negotiate with them to not put a disabled US veteran on the streets. But it mattered not and we were evicted May 17 and spent 8 weeks sleeping in our car/the Uhaul that represented everything we had built in 30 years. It was not pleasant but also not the end of my world/ at least not yet. I have spent the majority of the 26 years I have been stage 4 trying to help others like me from the beginning of their newly diagnosed illness. I have seen many of these miracle cures like Hull come and go and unfortunately I have seen those like us end up at the dialysis/transplant stage much sooner than they should have been due to UNSUPERVISED VLPD diet causing AKI sooner than it should have happened.

The NKF has for the first time included diet in their KIDGO Guidelines. The link is here. It is written for general practitioners as the “go to” because of the serious worldwide (finally) push to finally bring some type of real treatment for our disease into the 21 century instead of the 1960s technology we has as our only hope currently. This, it is not the easier read. I am fully disabled and in a wheelchair completely and as such don’t have much more to do than become smarter than my doctors and be the best advocate for me, backside the facts are that most docs don’t know much more than we do. The diet can create FALSE HOPE. The “magic” Hull is selling is a PROBIOTIC. It’s not some miracle it can be obtained from India significantly cheaper than what you pay him. Just think a little about it….if it was as easy as he makes it sound in his book, would the 1.5 million of the rest of us just cure ourselves??? Unfortunately it isn’t, instead what has happened is because of the lack of knowledge generally in the wold of physicians some get diagnosed with CKD when most probably, they never reached the “point of no return” when they did irrefutable damage to the kidney that is truest CKD. I’ll provide the link as it will be helpful to some I’m sure but just a change in diet is not a “cure” for CKD and can lead those of us who face the long slog to eventual inevitable dialysis/transplant wondering why it doesn’t work for us. Because true CKD has NO CURE PERIOD unfortunately. If you wade into the NKF link I provide you’ll read that yourself. The reason ( and they include about 650 peer reviewed studies) as you would expect is most people cannot stick to a true VLPD and maintain it FOR LIFE.

From the KIDGO GUIDELINES:

In adults with stages 3-4 CKD, the fruits and vegetables dietary pattern has mixed effects on eGFR compared with oral bicarbonate supplementation.212,213.

The reason it’s too hard for most to follow (.28-.35g protein) per lbs of body weight. I certainly am not contradicting NKF or the many nephrologist/renal dietitian who participated in these guidelines, as if you read the studies it IS a positive step to maintain a VLPD but it isn’t any kind of long term life and impractical for most of us with limited benefit to those of us who truly have lost nephrons. Unfortunately kidney cells (nephrons) unlike liver or skin cells do not regenerate ever. If you have reached the point many of us have the UCAR (protein leakage into urine) is the indication of damage being done “right now”. See the protein molecules are larger than the nephrons and when we intake too much (or any in many cases) it’s like an county fair ride “bumper cars” where the protein molecules we are attempting to process are just blowing through the kidneys destroying more nephrons. Thus, the need to keep the protein low. So diet makes sense but for some of us it isn’t the miracle Mr. Hull is getting rich with. Instead the diet helps control the CAUSE ( in my case HBP) and too many NSAIDS ( the US Army thought I didn’t need the information that most everytime I had my BP checked it was on average 160/100. Add 6-8 NSAIDS per day for 11.5 years and you get CKD.

My point? DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SELF PRESCRIBE A VLPD SUCH AS MR. Hulls wonder cure without full knowledge and input from your primary care doctor. In fact don’t put anything in your body unless discussed FIRST with your specialist. If they don’t play nice get another. I know for those in the UK sometimes that isn’t an option but if it were me ( and no one will ever be a better advocate for you than YOU) I’d make their lives miserable until they either started doing THEIR JOB or I got a doctor wroth seeing. I of course am in the US so I don’t have the same issues and have been lucky enough to not run into any of the incompetence I read daily on this site of the wonderful NHS and the healthcare system you are forced into. However, I have read where others in your country have been successful in obtain competent doctors so there must be a way…I suggest you find one because this disease most likely will be the worst (hopefully) you face in your life and currently there is only one way to treat it that we all face…dialysis and transplant. I’ll end with the same question I posed earlier. If it was simply about diet would not the rest of us “cure” ourselves? What I’m sure you learned from your parents or those who raised you applies with much more profoundness here…if it sounds too good to be true most likely it is. Be careful and realize that YOU are different from Mr. Hull, find the key to manage YOUR unique response to CKD not the current “fad” because I have seen personally those can be the cause of your CKD progression faster than you expect. Links follow and as always I wish all my best in their unique journey with this life changing ( but not necessarily like altering) disease!

Links:

NKF KIDGO guidelines specific to nutrition:

In adults with stages 3-4 CKD, the fruits and vegetables dietary pattern has mixed effects on eGFR compared with oral bicarbonate supplementation.212,213

nkf.worksmartsuite.com/User...

Specific from the guidelines:

nkf.worksmartsuite.com/User...