Antibiotics

[bowler]

I have stage 3 CKD [ GFR 37 ] I frequently have urine infections, and I worry about taking too many antibiotics.

[phillen]

its a very difficult thing as urine infections untreated damages the kidneys also antibiotics are not so good either my hubby although on dialysis takes 1 co amoxiclav a day to try to keep them away & has done this for about 4 years now

it seems to do the trick mostly as the year before he did this he had one after the other & sometimes took several attempts to clear unfortunately infections seem to be something that you will be prone to with KF i can understand your worry but you do need them by the sound of it!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

Hi.

phillen, pluto94, and concord. Thank you all for your replies, and your suggestions.

I suppose it's a catch 22 with antibiotics, if you dont have them for the UTI's it can worsen the kidneys, yet on the the other hand they give you side affects, and should be used with caution with CKD. I'm usually prescribed [Trimethoprim 200mgs. ]

I use to take bicarbonate of soda in water if I felt I had an infection coming on ,but not sure if I should do that, now my kidney function is getting lower?

I have GCA [ Giant Cell Arteritis for 14 years ] and high blood pressure, so more medication to add to my failing kidneys. And the steroids I take for the GCA push up my blood pressure, which isn't good for the kidney's, and taking steroids lower the immune system, another catch 22.

I have tried cranberry juice, but that didn't stop the UTI's.

I have put camomile tea on my shopping list.

[pluto94]

The alternative of not treating the infections are worse than the side effects of the antibiotics , As uti can speed up kidney failure . Do you take a glass of cranberry juice each morning as this is a proven way of reducing uti's , you can have the juice as you are not yet on dialysis , one glass per day is sufficient , do not think you can drink loads to prevent it , as too much can have other side effects #

[concord1]

my fella had every antibiotic under the sun nothing would get rid of the infections tried camomile tea cos he wasnt sleeping next visit no antibiotics and all infection gone the only thing he had was camomile tea worth a shot ..

[wingsofadove]

After repeated uti's and all tests and surgical procedures I was put on trimethoprim, one every night, to take for the rest of my life. This was many years ago and they have controlled the bladder infections very well ever since. As others have said, it is essential that they are treated otherwise they can go up the ureters and into the kidneys and that can be even worse. I am stage 3 but still have 53% eGFR. All the best.

[bowler in reply to wingsofadove]

Perhaps I could suggest this to my Dr, [ taking one every day ] I have just started another course of Trimethoprin.

thanks.

[cassie-brzoza]

This is what happened to me. I had kidney reflux therefore I was prone to UTIs and kidney infections. I was put on Trimethoprim every day for about 13 years. Eventually it became apparent that the antibiotics was no longer keeping the infections at bay and I had become resistant to them. So I changed to cefelexin and then various other antibiotics over the years to try and keep infections away. However, UTIs and kidney infections can damage kidney function and speed up CKD. Therefore there is not really any other option but to keep taking antibiotics and hope to preserve the kidney function.

[bowler in reply to cassie-brzoza]

The problem with me and antibiotics, is that they give me diarrhea, I have tried so many different one's, and at times I only get half way through them and I have to stop, I know I shouldn't.!!!

Also one blood pressure medication I was taking, [ Lisinopril ] caused my GFR to drop to 22 !!! and it raised my potassium. I was told to stop them at the hospital, and my GFR rose back up to the lower 40's but now down to 37.

We take medication for one problem and it causes something else.

[GrannyChris]

Hi Bowler, I'm CKD stage 3 and I get continuous UTI's if I stop taking my daily prophylactic antibiotic. Like you, if I have to take a 'normal' course of antibiotics for an infection I get diarrhea, but the low dose I take daily does not have this effect. I have been taking these for about 3 years now, and no UTI's (touch wood!) Definitely worth a chat with the doc.

[bowler in reply to GrannyChris]

Hi GrannyChris.

Thank you for your advice, I will certainly mention thr prophylactic antibiotic to my GP. I suppose it makes sense taking a low dose every day. I am only on my second day of Trimethropim, so I await the dreaded diarrhea/upset tum.

[phillen in reply to bowler]

yes my hubby was the same became allergic to trimethropin he says anything they give you in capsule from seem worse for giving you diarrhea! also as the kidneys get worse some of the them are a lot less effective my hubbys renal consultant said one of them in particular nitroflurentine is no good when your functions less yet a lot of gps prescribe it for kidney patients even my hubbys GP did!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

Yes it's a battle with the antibiotics.

I'm sure that some Dr's check the urine results, and prescribe antibiotics without checking the patients history.

Also when you read the info with the tablets they always state "be cautious if you have kidney problems" however I suppose they have to say that to cover themselves.

As a matter of interest did your husband have any headaches with Trimethropin ?

[phillen in reply to bowler]

he says he can't remember he might have done its been about 6 years now but that was what he was always given its the most widely used wether its the cheapest i'm not sure! my mum is also allergic to it my hubby had a rash with it my mum had itching & swelling! he was like you in stage 3 for a long time then had infection 1 after the other which pushed him to stage 4 mum was stage 3 with infections had stones removed very few infections now & gone down to stage 2 so they do need to get to the bottom of it for you!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

Thanks for your reply.

The reason I asked about headaches were, I woke with such an horendous headache after only taken 3 of the Trimethropim. I looked at the info, and it states" headaches as one of the side effects" I am having a flare of GCA [which also causes headaches] and at the moment on a high dose of steroids, so I reckon the combination of high steroids and the antibiotics didn't mix.?

I had several tests done at the hospital last summer, and they found I had one kidney smaller than the other, and I also have some cysts.

I am being monitored by my GP with regular checks,[ urine and blood tests], and was told that I wouln't get refered back to the hospital again unless my kidney function dropped any lower.

[phillen in reply to bowler]

this seems to be something they do now my hubby at stage 3 used to see the consultant yearly prior to that about 20 years ago a junior registrar discharged him saying a similar thing but during that time (2 years) he had a sudden deteriation & was told to talk about dialysis when he got back on to a renal consultants list!

luckily they seemed to get him sorted & he improved back to 2/3 for a long time but had his yearly check they didnt do or say much but its just that reassurance that your already on someones list!

i would'nt hesitate to ask your GP to go back if you feel your getting worse! as like i say infections can worsen the kidneys also high BP my hubbys consultant used to strive to keep it under 130/80!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

I certainly will talk to my GP re a referal when I next see him.

I do have high blood pressure, and take med. for that.,

When you say they got your husband sorted, was that with diet, or medication ?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am new to this,

However saying that, my kidney function has been in the low 40s for several years, but my old. GP never told me, It was only having other tests that all my kidney problems were picked up. I suppose she would have had to refer me if my gfr dropped too low.

.

[phillen in reply to bowler]

they found his bladder was not draining properly so he started self catheterizing to make sure the bladders drained as it causes back pressure on the kidneys & also got his blood pressure under control his kidney function improved & stayed like that for about 15 years so it really worked well used to get a few UTIs but then had a year with constant UTIs like yourself which pushed him into stage 4 then he had an accident broke some ribs had punctured lung & ended up on dialysis 4 years ago so not sure how long after that he would have remained in stage 4 if this had not have happened!

the main CKF in his case seemed to start originally form problems with the bladder! & having high BP they used to say it was ok just the high side of normal which we now know was not good! hope this is of some help

we used to live in the midlands they never told us anything about bloods only since we moved to devon did my hubbys GP & consultant ever talk about creatine levels etc we've learned far more since moving 13 years ago than ever before if you remain stable thats probably why they don't worry but i think its peace of mind when you see a consultant once a year especially when your having trouble with UTIs anything else you want to know please feel free to ask!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

Thank you,

It's nice to be able to share our experiences.

It's a shame that your hubby had a set back re the accident.

I't seem's that we have to do a lot of research ourselves into our ailments, we wont need Dr's in the future will we ?

I had educate myself with blood test numbers etc., especially with the other health problems I have.

I'm glad you had more help in Devon, and It's amazing how some area's and Dr's differ with their aproach.

[phillen in reply to bowler]

yes he had a very nice consultant when we first moved retired now but my hubby liked him he gave good advice

he said dialysis is not inevitable you may never get to that stage or you may get there quicker than expected the main thing to do is follow the advice your given as best you can eat healthily no added salt plenty of fruit & veg keep hydrated & get on with your life i see a lot of people on face book i joined some groups as i was desperate for diet ideas to help at stage 4/5 his phosphates went too high & was having problems bringing it down even with medication we're also vegetarians! they're in stage 3 & cutting out this & that with pottassium & dairy as it is high in phosphate making their life a chore you still need these things for a healthy body though in fact my hubby has to eat about 6 eggs a week for his protein levels so unless you have been told otherwise best to follow a good normal healthy diet otherwise your adding stress to your life unnecessarily theres time for all that added stress if & when!

in your case it seems like my hubby your bladder is your main culprit at the mo maybe your GP will suggest an appointment with a urologist might be a good idea! take care anything else you ever want to know feel free to ask i know of course each case is different even when on dialysis a friend of my hubby is on heamo & he has never had problems with phosphate calcium vit d or needed bicarb pills (at one stage not now) like my hubby he just has to watch his pottassium rich foods but takes no medication for it!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

I had my bladder checked a couple of months ago as I was passing blood, but that was ok

.

I did have a problem last year, when my potassium went too high, I was told by the Dr. to go straight to A&E when i got there they put a canular in my hand ready to treat me, when the blood test came back, however the potassium had gone down !!! so no treatment required.

I saw a urologist whilst there and he went over all my history, and he told me to stop taking Lisinopril [ blood pressure med. ] and gradually over the months the potassium went down. I am now on Lercanadipine, and 2 others.

[Beta blocker and water tablet ]

Oh and whilst in A&E my kidney function was 22 !!! but once coming off Lercanidipine it did gradually go back up to the low 40s.

I am wondering if Lercanidipine was the start of my problem and I didn't realise it. ? all confusing.

Thanks for listening, at least it gives my husbands ears a rest !!!

Oh and did your hubby have any anemia. I was borderline low on B12 but with treatment

that's better.

[phillen in reply to bowler]

it sounds like that caused it to me!you were very close they start discussing your options when you get between 20/16% although we never got to that point as in the end we had about a week to talk about it so never got to any of the meetings etc that you get to go to! my hubby's friend he went to seminars etc although he chose PD he only managed 6 months at that he's happy going for his evening dialysis at the hospital! how often do you have your bloods done my hubbys was 3 monthly at stage 3 when he went down hill it was monthly then when they had to take him in they did them every day now just monthly as he's ok on dialysis phosphate still a struggle but just about in range he did have anaemia about 10 months before it was a combination of having a lung full of blood form the pierced lung & drop in kidney function had a pint of blood then treated with EPO injections & iron infusions since dialysis he doesnt have the EPO just occassionaly still the iron! surprising what kidneys do! they do like to keep you slightly anaemic when on dialysis to prevent strokes etc!

my hubby likes to forget about it all so don't talk much its me who does all the talking! i like to find out as much as i can as i do all the cooking & shopping & of course i've had the worry when he was in hospital 5 times in a year i felt like i was helpless!

[bowler in reply to phillen]

I have to have regular blood tests for my GCA so when I get that done I ask for the GFR to be included, that's about every 3 months.

I was boderline low on b12 it was 226 [ should be apprx. between 200- 900 ] I started on b12 injections but they gave me side effects, although they did bring my number up to 885. I then took b12 sublinguals,that you put under the tongue, which I had to purchase myself, I took them for about 6 weeks and my b12 went off the scale to over 2000, so I dont take them now

And going by your info I dont want it too high with CKD even though I'm not on dialysis, i dont want more problems with an iron overload, that's all I need!!

My husband isn't very

domesticated, so i dread to think if I got worse, and he had to look after me, he's cant cook hot water !!

[phillen in reply to bowler]

that sounds about right for your stage yes iron overload can cause big problems! it must be very difficult dealing with several things

my hubby used to cook a bit but he forgets things easily now i had one or two smoke filled kitchens! so i don't allow him near! also he said he would find it difficult remembering what he's supposed to eat etc luckily we have quite good dieticiens who lend us books & gave us a wall chart with definite no nos on & a list of cheeses which he can eat more of rather than cheddar which is only a matchbox size per week! being veggies that proved the most difficult! but like i say not everyone is the same!

[candyk1d in reply to bowler]

Hi,I just changed my gp recently andnit was then inwas told I had kidney failure and had had it a long time. They commented that I should have been informed. Incidently my previous gp had put me on Ramipril, to protect the kidneys I was told, I only found outb

that they were Blood Pressure pills when applying for insurance. I have low blood pressure.

I had an operation recently for arthritis problem and its all been downhill from the infection at that time, have permanent infections, cystitis, cold sore throats and shingles. Is there a connection with kidney failure and low immune system

And is my kidney failure playing a big part in it all

[BronteM]

Just got through a series of infections....and ended up in hospital on IV antibiotics as the ones the GP gave me stopped working. I have vasculitis and the steroids and other drugs used to treat that have raised my blood pressure and damaged my kidneys.

Am also taking one antibiotic every evening, and have the same worries as you about taking too many. I'm also allergic to penicillin and have been told that I can never have any more, and that limits the options, so really want to use as little as possible.

So, trying every alternative! I do agree about camomile tea, which is very soothing. So is ginger tea, if you want a change. Cranberry extract has been excellent as it has no sugar and much more cranberry than the supermarket juice. Also cranberry tablets..and gallons of water at all times!

[bowler in reply to BronteM]

I have been on steroids for 14 years for GCA and like you they have probably done all the damage re- the high blood pressure and kidney problems.

Thanks for the cranberry info. I assume I get the extract from the health food shop ?

[BronteM]

Yes - mine came from the local one, but I think that Holland and Barratt stock it. My consultant was quite happy for me to use it, so good luck!

[baby_01]

Hi! I'm a Filipina. I'm glad to have found this forum. I've also been diagnosed to have stage 3 CKD (GFR 34.9). As I browse through all the posts it seems that my nephrologist gives me rather simpler meds for my ailment than the rest. He says though that I'm far from dialysis. I hope. I'm taking ketoanalogues; soludexide; fosinopril and metoprolol for my hypertension; calcium and heart tablet. Would you think these meds are really best for me? I'm in this medication for about 4 yrs. now. I also have bouts of UTI and edema. My doctor used to give me diuretics for my edema and antibiotics for the UTI. Much as I wanted to do away with synthetics, I couldn't because my CKD might speed up. I will try cranberry juice. I hope it will do me good for both UTI and edema.